UPDATE on the 440 I bought from a friend HA HA, 7/6/06 ''HELP''

[8WHEELER]

I asked you guys your opinion on a 60 over 70, 440 not to long ago. Well it turned out it was 30 over, so I bought it.

I just took off all of the clear wrapping that the engine was sealed with. Good news was there was no rust BUT.....

He told me this was a 30 over 70 440, all new
rocker arms   
rocker shafts
crank 10/10
push rods

Well I broke the golden rule, allways check for yourself before you pay. Its not a 70 440, The wrapping on it was so thick
I could not read the engine pad but trusted this ''friend''.

Now what year is this engine? could be 73 or 78 can't tell?
Does it have the good crank? there is a picture.

I have not popped the head off yet to make sure it is 30 over, nor have I made sure they are 6pk rods as he said.

Please help with all facts on this thing I may have missed, I am asking for my 3k back from this guy, I think most people would.

Anyway Thanks Dan

[Chargerguy74]

I'd be furious. Is the crank cast?

[8WHEELER]

Also I have never seen the round indentations, two on the front top of the block near the engine pad and on the rear.
Must be a 73-78 440 canting thing I have never seen before.

Also this guy says its no big deal just to drop the ''new'' long block right on the concrete with no pan
just right on the rods and crank, I would never have thought to do this after working on engines for 27yrs.
So after unwrapping the engine the  block is busted as you can see, maybe other problems.

Dan

[Duey]

You have a 1974 model year truck engine.  I think they had forged cranks and you may also see extra webbing on the outside of the engine block...some truck and industrial engines had this.

4T 440T

4 = 1974
T = Trenton, NJ plant
440 = displacement
T = Truck block


If this block was made earlier than Sept 13, 1973 it might have been a "letter" block, i.e.   K 440.  (1974 model year engines were K or 4)

Cheers,
Duey

[8WHEELER]

You have a 1974 model year truck engine.  I think they had forged cranks and you may also see extra webbing on the outside of the engine block...some truck and industrial engines had this.

4T 440T

4 = 1974
T = Trenton, NJ plant
440 = displacement
T = Truck block


If this block was made earlier than Sept 13, 1973 it might have been a "letter" block, i.e.   K 440.  (1974 model year engines were K or 4)

Cheers,
Duey

Ok thanks, I was not sure what the other T and 4 stood for, I new that one of the T's stood for truck but the 4 I was not clear.

Can a person tell if it is a cast crack or not buy looking at the picture of the back end? I can tell the crank had a 4sp at one time.

Dan

[Duey]

I don't Dan, but one of the guys will know...if it had an auto, you'd know because a forged crank is internally balanced and the converter would not have any additional weights.  I recall the front damper being different on the forged or cast, but can't remember the detail...

Duey

[RallyeMike]

Pop the pan off and shoot and post the crank. It's prety easy to tell cast from forged just looking at it. The shafts look new. Rockers could be new too - just rusty cuz never oiled. Of course with the busted block, it's being returned anyway, right?....   

[8WHEELER]

Yep he is getting this thing back, the rockers are old originals for sure, the pits are real deep. I can't believe he
would put in new shafts and put old deep pitted rocker arms, I mean I have never had a set that were this bad,
the oil on them keeps them from pitting.

Oh and on the crank, like I said he never had a pan on it to take off, I still have it over on the side, its a good
original Hemi pan, he just set the complete rebuilt engine on the concrete  ''no pan'' or anything underneath it 

Dan

[RallyeMike]

he just set the complete rebuilt engine on the concrete  ''no pan'' or anything underneath it

[firefighter3931]

Sorry to hear that Dan....i know you were excited about this engine. I have to wonder what this guy's thinking...setting an engine on the crank/rods is not something i'd do...we're in agreement there ! 

And that busted ear 

Time to build your own....at least you'll know it's been done right 


Ron

[John_Kunkel]

You have a 1974 model year truck engine.  I think they had forged cranks and you may also see extra webbing on the outside of the engine block...some truck and industrial engines had this.

4T 440T

4 = 1974
T = Trenton, NJ plant

Actually, that's Trenton, Michigan; just down river from Detroit.

If this block was made earlier than Sept 13, 1973 it might have been a "letter" block, i.e.   K 440.  (1974 model year engines were K or 4)

The lower stamping on the data pad is 10 16 2, assembled on October 16, 1973; second shift.

[Duey]

You have a 1974 model year truck engine.  I think they had forged cranks and you may also see extra webbing on the outside of the engine block...some truck and industrial engines had this.

4T 440T

4 = 1974
T = Trenton, NJ plant

Actually, that's Trenton, Michigan; just down river from Detroit.

If this block was made earlier than Sept 13, 1973 it might have been a "letter" block, i.e.   K 440.  (1974 model year engines were K or 4)

The lower stamping on the data pad is 10 16 2, assembled on October 16, 1973; second shift.

Didn't know there was a Trenton, MI...

John, is the Sept 13 the cast date then, on the block? (as opposed to the assy date)

Cheers,
Duey

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Sorry to hear that Dan....i know you were excited about this engine. I have to wonder what this guy's thinking...setting an engine on the crank/rods is not something i'd do...we're in agreement there ! 

And that busted ear 

Time to build your own....at least you'll know it's been done right 


Ron

[TylerCharger69]

That busted ear for the starter  he needs a good 'ol fashioned  behind the woodshed what-for!!!

[MOPARHOUND!]

Most 440 cast crank engines (if not all) have E stamped on the pad up top, your's doesn't.

Also, the 4 speed truck 440 engines used forged cranks, presumably for strength and the balance issue, long after they were phased out of the passenger cars.

A pic of the balancer, or a crank counter weight would tell the story.

Cast cranks have 440 cast into the counter weight edge, and have a balancer much thicker than the forged crank 440s..

[8WHEELER]

Most 440 cast crank engines (if not all) have E stamped on the pad up top, your's doesn't.

Also, the 4 speed truck 440 engines used forged cranks, presumably for strength and the balance issue, long after they were phased out of the passenger cars.

A pic of the balancer, or a crank counter weight would tell the story.

Cast cranks have 440 cast into the counter weight edge, and have a balancer much thicker than the forged crank 440s..

That is another problem with this engine. He says it has 6pk rods, so I asked him if he had it balanced, he said yes,
but there is no balancer that came with this engine, I found out after taking off the thick plastic wrapping. I have
always had my engines balanced with the balancer, and the 6pk engines use a thicker balancer as well I believe, I
know it is not the same.

Dan

[Brock Samson]

six pack engines are externally balanced.

[Blown70]

ERRR, ahhh May I ask how good a friend of yours this was.  No offense, does not sound too much like a friend to me.  Not trying to be an as5.  But, I someone tried to even sell me something like that I would not be reffering to them as my friend.

Tom

[dodge freak]

A old friend of mine 25 years ago who was 50 at the  time told me you should never buy or sell cars or anything that is a great sum of money between friends. He said its the sures way to lose that friendship. I guess this is what he was talking about.

[Silver R/T]

id be pissed

[8WHEELER]

Well I got ahold of him today, he can't believe its not a 70 engine    Then I talked to him about the broken
parts no timing chain cover and 6pk dampener. He can't believe that either, he thinks he has a dampener at
home still, but would have to check, I told him with all the other problems that at this point I would just like my
3k back and he can have his 74 truck engine  . 

I was nice about it, but you could tell he was not happy it was a 74 block, broken and he was going to have to
come get it. Everything should be fine, he said he was coming over Monday or Tuesday to pick it up, I hope he
remembers he said he was going to bring my money back as well    he is a nice guy.


Dan

[terrible one]

Good deal man.

I like that 'cuda

[Silver R/T]

nice cuda

[RTPTRON]

Dan, as you well know, everybody in the Northwest knows that Cuda.

Your "FRIEND" knows you very well and had to be an idiot to pull something like that on you.   I thought Mr. Le---s was much smarter about what he has.  He may have been scammed on this engine himself.

Just get your money back and re-learn your lession about looking before buying.

[TylerCharger69]