EPA set to repeal many laws and policies....

[Kern Dog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSEGdsr_xpk&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

[John_Kunkel]

 A nose ring?

[Kern Dog]

Yeah, I'm not impressed by weird jewelry either.

[Kern Dog]

This topic is gaining momentum.
There is also some news in California. There are reports of C.A.R.B. officials having interviews with other state agencies in anticipation of losing their jobs if/when CARB gets closed down. There is a bill being proposed, I believe it is SB 712. It has the support of Jay Leno and it concerns us too. It proposes to revise the current emission testing laws for gasoline and diesel vehicles. Currently, all 1976 model year and newer vehicles are required to pass a standard emissions test. The bill proposes to move that 1976 date to a rolling 30 year mark, meaning currently, a 1995 and newer model year car/truck would be tested but 1994 and older models would be exempt.
If the federal law passes, the California bill would be moot since the Federal government has supremacy. The TFA would rule that NO state has the right to set it's own standard so California would not be able to demand it's own blend of gasoline or diesel. With CARB gone, no emission testing and 50 state gasoline/diesel, it may be cheaper and easier to own a classic car here sometime soon.

[b5blue]

FL. hasn't had that stuff in decades.

[Kern Dog]

That may be because despite the population, you have legislation that makes sense.

[John_Kunkel]

 All of this depends a lot on the regime in power, four years from now we might see a complete reversal of the proposed policies we favor.

[b5blue]

Oh they are a fine bunch of book banning Bible thumping remove your rights in the name of freedom spuds.    All they really care about is the all mighty buck.

[Kern Dog]

These laws are written and intended to be difficult if not impossible to reverse. It calls for measures that will effectively eliminate CARB entirely.
I don't delve into the minutia of the political process well enough to understand it all. I've heard that with certain measures that can only happen with strong bi-partisan support, some laws can be passed that take extraordinary efforts and support to overcome at a later date. These measures have the support.
This is NOT a money maker for the politicians, it actually takes revenue away from California by way of eliminating their right to mandate vehicle emission testing of which the state gets a healthy cut.
Products will be cheaper as a result. There is a strong likelihood that California will not be allowed to mandate their own blend of gasoline. This means a 50 state gasoline recipe and no radical spikes in prices due to shortages. (Real or manufactured)

[Kern Dog]

I found it.
The Congressional Review Act is the legislation action that gets around any Executive order,

See the video, at 4:30 the man explains it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVTe7wUnY4s&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

[b5blue]

I'll pass on the link. (I understand checks and balances.) You need to lighten up some. How's your blood pressure? Manifesto stuff isn't for here.   

[John_Kunkel]

I found it.
The Congressional Review Act is the legislation action that gets around any Executive order,

See the video, at 4:30 the man explains it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVTe7wUnY4s&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

Cannot be reinstituted? I wouldn't give credence to any Youtube talking head when it comes to the law and the legislative process.

The next regime doesn't need to "reinstitute" anything, they can merely introduce and pass new legislation that is even more restrictive than current.

[Kern Dog]

I'll pass on the link. (I understand checks and balances.) You need to lighten up some. How's your blood pressure? Manifesto stuff isn't for here.   

Of course you won't watch it. Some people are so stuck believing a scam, it would really upset them to have it proven wrong.
It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

[Kern Dog]

"Cannot be reinstituted? I wouldn't give credence to any Youtube talking head when it comes to the law and the legislative process.

The next regime doesn't need to "reinstitute" anything, they can merely introduce and pass new legislation that is even more restrictive than current."

I do worry about that. I wish that I knew the finer points of it.
The various videos that I have seen seem to paint a picture of the Congressional Review Act as some means to prevent any future return of the existing regulations. Again, I don't know enough about the legislative process to argue either side of that.
I never thought that the day would come that emission standards would be reversed but the last 4-8 years have been a time of wild swings in regulations, opinions, biases and everything. I see it as a continued pattern of uncertainty.
It does improve my outlook though to see what I feel is a hard reversal against the excessive push to abandon Gas and diesel cars and trucks.

[b5blue]

 

[Kern Dog]

I really doubt that new cars standards would be rolled back so far that they actually could be built without catalytic converters, EGR valves or other stuff like that but some people are seeing it as possible.
Personally, I wouldn't strip the exhaust out of my late model cars to run headers and no converters even though IF the commentators are right. It would be nice to not have the $75 smog checks every 2 years for 4 cars.
I am interested in the possible freedom from having to make any limited use classic meet emission targets that choke almost all of the life from the low compression engines that they all had.
A late 70s Dodge truck with a V8 had pathetic torque and HP numbers due to these regulations. The cars weren't much better when you consider that a 1978 Dodge Little Red Express was noted as being faster than even a new Corvette.

[Mike DC]

 
We aren't losing exhaust cats like we aren't going back to 8-track tapes. The cats alone don't even cost a lot of horsepower. 

We have bigger problems than any of this stuff.  Right now we should be more worried about very intentional planned-obsolescence tactics, in both the hardware and software.  And the fact that our cars are 4000-lb data farms to track our movements for private corps and govt agencies. 



With classics, I think groups like us (SEMA, etc) should be pushing to end to any emission rules after a certain age.  Like, once a car is 25 years old it should go into the same legal category as a custom-built hot rod.  Just make it pass the basic safety inspection.  Let Californians put carbureted V8s into 1998 minivans if they want. 

Forcing a 30yo car to meet emissions rules is just raising repair costs for poor people and frustrating car enthusiasts.  There aren't enough 30yo cars on the road to make any big environmental impact.     
   
   

[Kern Dog]

Great point, Mike.
The newer catalytic converters on gas engines do cost power but it is mostly noticeable at higher rpms.
It absolutely has been a money grab here in California. The percentage of 1976-1990 year model cars is pretty low.

[b5blue]

WOOO scary they are out to get ya! 

[Kern Dog]

You don't have the oppressive anti-car legislation that we have here so you're ignorant to the problem.
This is like Marie Antoinette suggesting that "let them eat cake" when people are going hungry.

[b5blue]

I chose to live where I like it and you don't.  I traveled in my youth and lived in several states so I know the pros and cons of many areas. IDK why your staying in CAL. anymore.

[Kern Dog]

I chose to live where I like it and you don't.  I traveled in my youth and lived in several states so I know the pros and cons of many areas. IDK why your staying in CAL. anymore.

You chose to live where you like it and I don't?
I like Florida. Who claimed that I didn't? I stay in California because aside from the politics, I love it here.

[John_Kunkel]

The various videos that I have seen seem to paint a picture of the Congressional Review Act as some means to prevent any future return of the existing regulations. Again, I don't know enough about the legislative process to argue either side of that.

When laymen try to act like experts in videos, one would be wise to take their ranting with a grain of salt. In the quote below, I have bolded the text that shows that nothing is set in concrete on the subject of the Congressional Review Act as the aforementioned talking head implies:

"The law empowers Congress to review, by means of an expedited legislative process, new federal regulations issued by government agencies and, by passage of a joint resolution, to overrule a regulation. Once a rule is thus repealed, the CRA also prohibits the reissuing of the rule in substantially the same form or the issuing of a new rule that is substantially the same "unless the reissued or new rule is specifically authorized by a law enacted after the date of the joint resolution disapproving the original rule" (5 U.S. Code § 801(b). Congress has a window of time lasting 60 legislative days to disapprove of any given rule by simple-majority vote; otherwise, the rule will go into effect at the end of that period."

[Kern Dog]

Oh, I'm not running off to celebrate just yet. I understand that nothing is permanent or certain.

[AKcharger]

I'm putting a ceiling in my garage,. before it just had open rafters

[Kern Dog]

I'm putting a ceiling in my garage,. before it just had open rafters

Uhh, okay. Good luck with that.

[b5blue]

Ceilings are a bitch to hang! Are ya using sheetrock?

[AKcharger]

lol, I was just being random. But yes, sheet rock. It's all up now texture paint and drill out the holes

[Kern Dog]

Things are happening, finally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6BcTuXIdVs&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

There have been some youtubers that have made videos that are putting the cart before the horse. They are doing the opposite of crying wolf, they were getting our hopes up and day after day passed with no real action.
The Leno's Law SB 712 is not dead but not exactly guaranteed to pass. That is a wait and see issue.
If the US Congress actually votes on the EPA associated legislation, it should pass on a simple majority since the people opposing the former rules and regulations are greater in numbers.
This may not affect you but it does affect others in the hobby.

[Kern Dog]

The elimination of C.A.R.B. here in California could mean the end of smog checks/emission testing.
I would love that. Paying $70 just to confirm that each of my late model cars is compliant sucks. I don't drive vehicles that are out of tune, I fix them.
Eliminating EV mandates is absolutely what the majority of the public wants too. Let the market decide what car to buy. If the EVs were so great, you'd see people gladly park their gas and diesel vehicles to buy one.

[John_Kunkel]

Things are happening, finally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6BcTuXIdVs&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

He must be credible, he wears a necklace TOO. 

[b5blue]

Oh it's on youtube, it MUST be true. 

[Kern Dog]

I'm not betting on emission laws getting totally repealed but things are changing and it could happen. To discount it shows a lack of intelligence.
Try looking up the "Dunning-Krueger" syndrome. It may help you identify your problem.

[John_Kunkel]

I'm not betting on emission laws getting totally repealed but things are changing and it could happen. To discount it shows a lack of intelligence.

Nobody is discounting the possibility, only the talking head on Youtube.  Youtube is the last vestige of  wannabe experts on every subject...I'm surprised you don't have a channel there.

Try looking up the "Dunning-Krueger" syndrome. It may help you identify your problem.

You should take your own advice, if there's anybody here suffering from that syndrome, it's you. Such is the nature of ego-tippers.

[Kern Dog]

You think so?
Maybe I should try to be more like you, in your mind I'd be much better off.
I'd be alone with no wife or friends but I'd take comfort in thinking that I have it all figured out.

[John_Kunkel]

You think so?
Maybe I should try to be more like you, in your mind I'd be much better off.
I'd be alone with no wife or friends but I'd take comfort in thinking that I have it all figured out.

Insecure people like you make a big issue of having lots of "friends", you try to surround yourself with people to form the illusion that you're popular when, in reality, you have no idea what those people really think of you. I've had the occasion to be in your presence and have heard what those "friends" think of you and it's pretty much the same as what I think of you...your existence can be summed up in one word...EGO.

[Kern Dog]

Yeah, keep telling yourself that the reason that you have no friends is because you choose not to.

 

[John_Kunkel]

Yeah, keep telling yourself that the reason that you have no friends is because you choose not to.

 

And keep telling yourself that you have lots of friends because not being so would be a huge blow to your inflated EGO

BTW, a few days into this exchange and you haven't threatened to kick my ass yet...have given up your Super Ultra Macho Stud persona?

[Kern Dog]

Nah, you already know that.
You are annoying but not entirely stupid.

[Kern Dog]

You can find the messenger to be unconventional but the message seems genuine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZqEYVw1pAs&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

If CARB is defunded, they have no money to push any agenda.

[John_Kunkel]

 More on topic without the Youtube talking heads' BS about de-funding CARB:

https://trackbill.com/bill/california-senate-bill-712-smog-check-collector-motor-vehicles-exemption/2671682/

The caveat with this bill is, to avoid Smogcheck, the car will have to be insured as a collector car with the limitations that come with some policies.

[Kern Dog]

We used to be able to trust the networks to report this stuff. They have proven to be unreliable.
Think of any authority figure that withholds information that if released, could undermine their grip over others.
I admit, it would be great to be able to turn on the TV and get neutral reporting on the issues. As optimistic as I am in general, I don't feel confident that "the news" will get there. In the meantime, we can listen to unconventional sources and make up our own minds.
There are some YouTubers that have opposing opinions on this subject. One guy interprets the EPA actions as only affecting what happens now and moving forward. Others see the acts as an elimination of all emission regulations for all vehicles. I don't think it would go that far. I really doubt that the feds would suddenly turn a blind eye to car owners removing the converters on everything they own.
I don't know for sure that I would even do that to my truck though it is fun to consider. I love a rumbly exhaust note.

[Kern Dog]

This guy is a bit awkward in how he presents himself but still worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p5JWMPSDIo&ab_channel=ScottiesHobbies

[Kern Dog]

Layoffs at CARB ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11U5rp19wKM&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

[Kern Dog]

One step closer each day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_T19eQbQvk&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

[Kern Dog]

Another view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn0EHlasUUk&ab_channel=ScottiesHobbies

[Kern Dog]

The SB 712 here in California isn't dead yet !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cs0e8uvQQs&ab_channel=ScottiesHobbies

[Kern Dog]

I don't like the idea of more taxes anywhere, even HERE where they are looking to tax EVs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5TupySJEiQ&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

[Kern Dog]

Great victory is on the horizon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhnzgU-eQw&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

Once signed by the commander in chief, NO Gasoline/diesel car ban in California, NO Electric Vehicle mandate, C.A.R.B. could be shut down too.

[Kern Dog]

Smog checks/emission tests going away?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gcIshQfHco&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

[Kern Dog]

Boom!

I saw it coming, some dismissed the idea of it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9t0Id34v14&ab_channel=CBS8SanDiego

Effective immediately, NO state can enforce emission regulations that are different than the Federal standard and there will be no EV mandate in California. NO government pushed phasing out of gasoline powered cars and trucks.

There wasn't much TV coverage on this, the majority of the info did come from independent internet "Bloggers/Vloggers/YouTubers and other people outside of the usual channels of media.

[John_Kunkel]

And what did your favorite talking head at TK's Garage have to say about changes in California?

[Kern Dog]

He isn't my favorite, he is just the one most active at reporting what he was hearing.
He sometimes oversteps or misinterprets what he hears, in other words, he reads more into an issue than what may be true.
By that, I mean he has claimed that CARB is over-finished-dead in the water etc.
I will only believe that when I see it.
If all of this simply results in California losing the ability to continue pushing stricter regulations than Federal, I'm okay with that. The simple fact is that many CALIFORNIA ONLY emission related parts are physically and functionally identical to the 49 state parts yet because they have a CARB approved number, they cost a bunch more. The difference in the cost is simple CA bureaucracy that funnels money to CARB. IT is a mafia-esque money laundering rip off scheme that has zero effect on reducing emissions to levels any different than a 49 state part. THAT is ab abuse of power by this state. It is but one instance where this state repeatedly shakes down the citizens for far more money for something that other states do not do.
Have you other Californians ever asked around what gas taxes or vehicle registration rates are in other states?

[Kern Dog]

This woman may come across as more legitimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OyGUnzfQy8&ab_channel=CarCoachReports

[John_Kunkel]

He isn't my favorite, he is just the one most active at reporting what he was hearing.
He sometimes oversteps or misinterprets what he hears, in other words, he reads more into an issue than what may be true.

And in one of his recent offerings he effectively said "don't expect to see any changes".

I'm a "wait and see" kinda guy. After the predictable lawsuits and possible "states rights" decisions by the SCOTUS, a future election will likely install the "other party" and the whole circular clusterfuck will repeat.

As predictable as the rising sun.

[John_Kunkel]

 

[Kern Dog]

Even the Supreme Court is against California regulations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND85O-O_q_Q&ab_channel=TK%27sGarage

[John_Kunkel]

"The Supreme Court specifically declined to review the question of California's waiver to federal emissions standards, denying an appeal in December that raised that issue. Instead, the only issue before the justices was whether the companies and trade associations had standing to sue".

[Kern Dog]

That alone is a step forward.
When government makes itself untouchable, they no longer represent the will of the people.
Imagine if the one party rule here were to actually be challenged?

[John_Kunkel]

Ahhh, "the will of the people".

[Kern Dog]

I know, but I am an optimist at heart. I know, it may be naive to think that government should serve the public instead of themselves but I can't live thinking negatively all the time.

[John_Kunkel]

I'm a pessimist, the voters of California traditionally elect those with views diametrically opposed to yours and "they", unfortunately, will find a way to get their way.

[Kern Dog]

Hmmm,
I couldn't live that way. If I were always thinking the worst, I'd never want to do anything because I'd be too pissed off or unmotivated.
Back on point....
The changes that are happening are better for the industry and the economy while having negligible real effect on the climate.

[John_Kunkel]

"negligible real effect on the climate."By whose standards?

[Kern Dog]

Everything is subject to criticism and while we all have a right to our own opinions, it is the ones in power that are able to enact the change.
Nobody on this planet will ever see a single degree of average temperature increase when amortized over our lifetimes.
Restricting growth and the economy to suit a cause that has no actual benefit (despite their passion for the cause) helps only those seeking to gain more control over people.
Electric cars don't help the environment but they sure are easier to track, limit and shut down.