Who has had success with a roller cam big block?

[Kern Dog]

I have danced around this option for years and have yet to make the leap.
I want to but my frugal side sees the cost and it tightens my ass every time.

The lifters alone....



These are a good brand from what I have heard. What does a decent roller cam cost? The prices are all over the place. I loosely figured on $500+ for the cam. Now I'll need pushrods, a timing set, a bronze distributor drive, some means to keep fore/aft play to a minimum which means a reinforced timing cover. The fuel pump pushrod needs a bronze tip. With gaskets and other odds and ends, this is over $1700.

Why would I want to switch to a roller?
The engine in this car:



Has wiped out 2 Comp Cams in 2006 and a Mopar '528 solid in 2022. I strongly suspect that oiling was to blame since the lifters all spun in their bores as they should and I always used the proper valve springs.
My current cam is larger than I like with a power peak rated beyond where I like to run...7000 rpms. The Tremec 5 speed in the car doesn't like to shift over 6000 rpms so a cam that peaks around there is a better choice. Add to that, I'd like a smaller cam with more idle vacuum. I currently have a vacuum pump to serve the brake booster. I'd like to eliminate that and just rely on engine vacuum.
I have heard from some with successes with roller cams so it isn't as if I am blazing a trail on this one.

[metallicareload99]

I would definitely consult with someone who has a lot of experience, especially with hydraulic roller cams. I've heard about problems with lifters/lifters bleeding down, unsatisfactory lifter bore clearances. Unless there's something wrong with your current cam, I would personally be inclined to stick with it

That being said, I've put 18,000+ miles on my solid roller cam since 2017. Definitely require more maintenance in the form of lash checks, replacing valve springs, and lifters.

Both flat tappet cams I had installed in the same engine prior to the roller cam went flat FWTW

[Kern Dog]

My current combo is a 9.8 to 1 440/495 with a Lunati solid flat tappet:



For the 383/440, their RPM range is somewhere in the 4000-7400 range. It was recommended to me several years ago when I was dealing with detonation. The theory was that a bigger cam would reduce cylinder pressure to reduce the knocking. I had the engine out of the car in 2022 after I wiped out a Mopar '528 solid. I put this Lunati back in because I kept the lifters in order and it was free to use.
The car makes power but it isn't as snappy off idle as it was before with the smaller cam.
The roller cam would sure alleviate some concern about wiping out another cam and lifter set.
I've read and heard that they can still be noisy. That is a surprise. I'd hoped that a hydraulic roller would be quieter than my solid flat tappet setup.

[metallicareload99]

The roller I have is 258° @ 0.050", so I can imagine that is a bit soft down low. I would think the 493 would love the duration and the stroke would cover up anything missing down low? You have over drive, maybe change the rear gears 

I didn't find going from hydraulic flat tappet to solid roller that bad as far as noise. I am curious if a hydraulic roller wouldn't need lifters and spring changes as frequently

[Kern Dog]

There are a few reasons that switching cams is tempting.
* Roller for reliability and possible power increase.
* Better idle vacuum, allowing me to pull and stow the vacuum pump.
* Freedom to use any oil that is available.

I've seen some videos of cars with hydraulic rollers that still sound as clickity as my solid flat tappet. I was hoping that a hydraulic cam would be quieter given that it has no valve lash. One video had a Comp setup that was unusually loud, yet the Comp tech guy claimed that it was normal for their stuff.

[John_Kunkel]

Lots of disagreement on hydraulic roller tappet noise, some claim that needle bearing rollers are noisier than bushed, that some noise is from the link bars between the tappets and some claim that certain brands are prone to noise while others aren't.

I once had a Datsun 280ZX that seemed to have excessive lifter noise, turns out it was the injectors switching open and closed.  Matters not to me, the radio drowns out the noise.

[Kern Dog]

I am okay with the fact that the old cars won't be as quiet as new ones. I actually do enjoy the experience of an older car. The smells of fuel and combustion don't bother me at all.
I've just grown tired of the clackity sound of the solid flat tappet and it seemed like it would quiet down a bit with a hydraulic lifter cam, roller or flat tappet.

[metallicareload99]

Having used both bushed and needle bearing lifters, the needle bearing lifters do seem to have a "sound"

The only sound "problem" my car has is the exhaust is louder than I care for. I actually like the sound of my valve train, I would not call it clackity

[madmike]

Last summer, I rebuilt the supposedly 'rebuilt' '69 440 engine in my '68 Charger, which is just a street car.  That engine had various issues, and it had a MoPar DC hydraulic flat tappet cam in it, the 484 lift/280 duration cam I think.  The block had already been bored 0.060 over.

A few years ago (during 'Covid') I rebuilt a SBC 400, and retrofitted a roller cam to that engine, which is in my '78 K20 pickup truck.  I really like it!  I had watched too many You Tube videos showing wiped out hydraulic flat tappet cams, and was worried that if I tried to save a few bucks using one, it would just get wiped out anyway.  So, I went the more expensive roller route, even though I didn't want to spend the money...

So, last year, when I rebuilt my 0.060 over 440, I decided to install a hydraulic roller cam in it.  I hated to spend that kind of money on it, but again, I feared wiping out a flat tappet cam.  I purchased the hydraulic roller cam and many of the associated parts from 440Source, and had a good experience with them.  I used their technical assistance line a couple of times too, and they were great to deal with and knowledgeable.

On the SBC 400, I can't hear any 'noise' from the cam.  You wouldn't know it has one, just listening to it or another SBC.  On the 440 MoPar, it does sound slightly different than the engine did before, with the flat tappet cam, but I don't know why it might.  It is not noisy or clickity though, and the exhaust note sounds great.  Although I am having tuning issues, I don't believe they are cam related.

Even though swapping to roller is SO expensive, I feel it is worth it to not worry about wiping out a flat tappet cam.  It seems like no matter how careful you are, how much of an expert you may be, or how great of a mechanic, the cam still might get wiped out.  The roller just seems to alleviate a worry point...  I'd do it again!

[b5blue]

Do you know "Hughes" will warranty break in? https://www.hughesengines.com/Index/index.php

[pipeliner]

I use those with my trick flow heads and smith push rods. Do not, I mean Do not use needle type roller rockers with a roller cam. They are very noisy. Use the Mancini Harland Sharp bushed type rollers. I think they are better and stronger anyways. My engine is very very quiet with this set up.

[cdr]

These are facts, if going hydro roller get the Johnson short travel , you REALLY need to have the lifter bores bushed but some blocks are better than others & can get by without, use a mellonized oil pump gear, no big deal on the thrust button I used a 440 source alum timing cover& a nylon grind to fit button, you would need to go with a mild cam to use the springs you have , 235 ish @ .050 .500,.550 lift ish that would also shorten your RPM range, my valvetrain is a little noisy but I dont care LOL, car hauls ass. any questions just ask. also I used the very expensive Morels not the cheaper ones that you show, NEVER again will I buy their JUNK

[Derwud]

These are facts, if going hydro roller get the Johnson short travel , you REALLY need to have the lifter bores bushed but some blocks are better than others & can get by without, use a mellonized oil pump gear, no big deal on the thrust button I used a 440 source alum timing cover& a nylon grind to fit button, you would need to go with a mild cam to use the springs you have , 235 ish @ .050 .500,.550 lift ish that would also shorten your RPM range, my valvetrain is a little noisy but I dont care LOL, car hauls ass. any questions just ask. also I used the very expensive Morels not the cheaper ones that you show, NEVER again will I buy their JUNK

All of this... Yes Bush your lifter bores, especially if you are going near 600 lift (with 1.5 rockers). I will never build another engine with a flat tappet cam, not worth the headeache.

Yes, you get some valve train noise, but I can't hear it over the 2 inch Headers..

[Kern Dog]

I'm not pulling the engine to bush the lifter bores. I don't need to run at .600 lift either.

[Derwud]

I might get a little smaller cam..

[Kern Dog]

Each time I start up one of the other classics I have out back, I'm pleased with the more silent cam and lifter setup they have. I can stand in front with the hoods up with them and hear the lope of the cam but no valve lash and lifter clatter. They all have hydraulic flat tappets of moderate performance, none rev over 6000 rpms.
It seems to me that with a 4.15" stroke, I shouldn't need to run it that high to make peak power. There is a point where the heads can't flow any more, right?
The '528 was pretty strong out of the hole all the way to 6000 but this Lunati really scrams. I shift not because it feels like it is slowing but because I don't know at what point that I'd spin it to 7000 and scatter the whole thing.
I've been told that the roller lifters don't like to rev much past 6000 and for me, that is fine.

[Nacho-RT74]

Answering the initial question...

A friend of mine made it, in his 73 with 400 and KB pistons. Dunno the full setup he built thought. I can ask him if wished.

[Kern Dog]

My frugal mindset has kept me on the sidelines in regards to moving forward with this.

I did chat with a guy that had great results with this cam:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-23-712-9/make/dodge

236/242 duration @ .050, .544/.541 lift with 1.5 rocker arms, .580/.577 lift with my 1.6 rocker arms.
Of course, the lifters are where the money goes.
I'm trying to convince myself that this will alleviate anxiety over cam failures. Add to that, a milder cam will make more power where I need it, not way above 6500 rpms. The duration is down low enough that it might even make enough vacuum to adequately run the brake booster, allowing me to remove the vacuum pump.

[Kern Dog]

Swapping to a roller cam in an engine that isn't designed for it isn't as simple as installing a flat tappet cam.
The cost is part of it. Several parts are different.
In September, I wrote that this could run $1700 or more. That looks to be well over $2000 at this point given that I'd need new valve springs and a timing set with a Torrington bearing.
The "cam button" thing confused me. Now, I understand that the fore/aft movement of the cam has to be limited somehow since the roller camshafts don't have lobe taper to push them rearward in the block.
That alone confuses me. The cam plug at the bellhousing end...I've always installed them with no regard to how deep they end up. It never occurred to me that it could be an issue.



That was how it was when I pulled the engine after losing the '528 cam June 22. Here is how it looked during the rebuild:



Again, it never occurred to me that this mattered. Note how the unpainted plug seems to be driven in deeper. If the end of the cam actually does make contact here, the cam is now moved forward by some small amount if the cam plugs are the same thickness.

[John_Kunkel]

The rear soft plug installed a little deep shouldn't be a problem.

In theory, the interaction of the cam gear driving the intermediate shaft gear will produce a reaction force on the camshaft that will tend to push the shaft toward the back of the engine but, somehow, the roller cam will sometimes walk forward enough to cause problems.

I think the Torrington bearing between the top sprocket and the block is an unneeded expense...I've never used one.

I prefer the Teflon thrust button at the front over the popular bearing type. Many believe the stamped steel front cover won't handle the thrust load of the button so I always apply a blob of epoxy to the outside of the cover where the thrust button is centered before installing the water pump housing...this allows the pump housing to reinforce the cover. I put a small piece of wax paper over the epoxy so the pump housing won't stick to the cover.

[Kern Dog]

The Torrington bearing is recommended by some.



I just learned last night that the extremely narrow allowance for the fore/aft movement is limited by the thrust/cam button in the camshaft sprocket and the back side of the timing sprocket where it meets the block. The Torrington bearing supposedly allows for light contact without wear.
I'm learning as I go here.

[Kern Dog]

I prefer the Teflon thrust button at the front over the popular bearing type

Little by little, I'm picking up tidbits on how this stuff works.
Thanks to helpful members including Mr Kunkel above.
This video helps clear another thing up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLvUpY7ErM8&ab_channel=Pete%27sGarage

The cam button gets set into place, the man puts a strip of Plastigage on the button then temporarily installs the timing cover. He pulls the cover and then measures the thickness of that Plastigage. His read .009 which is within spec so he can leave it alone.
I've seen videos where a dial indicator is used with the unit being set in the lifter valley. This does determine fore/aft movement but I wasn't sure about how that helped or determined the cam button clearance to the cover. Maybe this was assuming that the rearward limit was the cam sprocket to the block and the front limit was the button to cover? I guess that would work, it just seems odd to me to do it that way.
The Plastigage method makes sense. If the number is tighter than .004, I suppose you'd sand the surface of the button with 220 or 400 grit sandpaper to take off very little at a time?

[cdr]

I prefer the Teflon thrust button at the front over the popular bearing type

Little by little, I'm picking up tidbits on how this stuff works.
Thanks to helpful members including Mr Kunkel above.
This video helps clear another thing up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLvUpY7ErM8&ab_channel=Pete%27sGarage

The cam button gets set into place, the man puts a strip of Plastigage on the button then temporarily installs the timing cover. He pulls the cover and then measures the thickness of that Plastigage. His read .009 which is within spec so he can leave it alone.
I've seen videos where a dial indicator is used with the unit being set in the lifter valley. This does determine fore/aft movement but I wasn't sure about how that helped or determined the cam button clearance to the cover. Maybe this was assuming that the rearward limit was the cam sprocket to the block and the front limit was the button to cover? I guess that would work, it just seems odd to me to do it that way.
The Plastigage method makes sense. If the number is tighter than .004, I suppose you'd sand the surface of the button with 220 or 400 grit sandpaper to take off very little at a time?

Like John said the nylon button is the way to go, I had to grind a lot off the nylon to get the proper clearance, also the Johnson brand axle oiling lifters are the way to go. melonized oil pump drive gear, a small hydro roller valve spring is in the range of 140 to 155 seat, 380 to 400 open

[Kern Dog]

Like John said the nylon button is the way to go, I had to grind a lot off the nylon to get the proper clearance, also the Johnson brand axle oiling lifters are the way to go. melonized oil pump drive gear, a small hydro roller valve spring is in the range of 140 to 155 seat, 380 to 400 open

Those spring numbers are close to what the Comp Cams site recommends:



Regarding the lifters, 440 Source has these:



I've heard of the "Melonized" distributor drive/intermediate shaft but have yet to look on where to find one.

[John_Kunkel]

The Torrington bearing is recommended by some.

With the absence of lobe taper, the roller cam actually imparts less thrust against the block than the flat tappet cam. After billions of miles on BB motors, there doesn't seem to be an epidemic of problems in that area.

Save you money.

When properly installed (few are), the front cam bearing is about .030" back from the front of the block...this allows pressurized lube from the journal to reach the thrust face and lube the block/sprocket interface.

[cdr]

Huges has the Melonized gear, note,,,, I would ONLY use the Johnson lifters, they are also very well known to have a lifter that solves the Gen 3 Hemi tick.

[Kern Dog]

Hughes melonized gears are almost $300 compared to under $200 for a Milodon bronze or this one from 440 source:



What would be the advantage of a melonized gear on a car that gets driven maybe 1500 miles a year?
440 source also has roller lifters made by Howards and Morel.

[b5blue]

Spend all this money, then get cheap? Do it right!  This is gonna make a great "Why did it fail" thread later. 

[John_Kunkel]

Huges has the Melonized gear,

Which begs the question, what material are hydraulic roller cams made of? Solid roller cams are usually billet steel while hydraulic rollers might be cast. The bronze and Melonized gear are only required with billet cams. 

[Kern Dog]

It isn't going cheap, Lipshitz. It is making an informed decision.
I see idiots at car shows with far more money than skill. The only thing some of them can do is check the oil and replace headlight door bumpers.
If you ask them about engine or suspension specs, they recite a list of things that their builder did for them.
When the car has a breakdown, they have it towed to a shop instead of doing a roadside fix themselves.
Which guy do you want to be?

[cdr]

Treated gear with shaft is $265.00, gear is 109.00, can be run on ANY cam

[b5blue]

 While you were still filling your diapers I was and have been fixing cars.     Mine STAY fixed.

[Kern Dog]

Now YOU'RE in diapers and can't fix anything.
Go away if you have nothing to add here. Start your own topic and post all that you want.

[b5blue]

  It's so easy, instead of spitballing just call the pro's like Hughes and do what they tell you to. But no, you mess around. You an only child With no children? You sure are impressed with yourself. None of this is "new" you roached your last build and don't know why.
  You try to mock others with chest beating blow hard about doing it yourself while not knowing/caring of others situations like heath or wealth when this site is dedicated to the common bond of Chargers.
  You have side railed plenty of topics and caused many to not come back with your redneck posts!

[John_Kunkel]

Treated gear with shaft is $265.00, gear is 109.00, can be run on ANY cam

Yes, but the issue is, is it necessary?

[Kern Dog]

None of this is "new" you roached your last build and don't know why.
 

Where did you get this idea? Your memory is failing you.
Also, not everyone just cracks open the wallet and buys the most expensive thing. I am not broke but I'm not sitting on an unlimited supply of cash. Smart people don't spend more than they have to spend. Only an idiot wastes things, money being one of them.
Hey, you may not care to try getting value for your money but I do, others do as well.
I don't see what I contribute as chest beating since I actually am out doing things instead of paying someone else to do it. If this were chest beating, I'd not ask for help, I'd just brag about what I have. If you are intimidated by a guy that writes about ongoing projects, that isn't the fault of anyone but you. When I see threads of others doing things, it inspires ME to do things.
Read the title of this thread again and maybe it will be clearer.

[Kern Dog]

The LA series and Magnum small blocks used a cast iron camshaft so the distributor drives for those were the same as the flat tappet units. Aftermarket cams are usually billet from what I've read.
I have seen that some vendors sell reground original LA/Magnum cams so of course, the same rule applies as stated above.

[will]

Can we please not turn this into moparts?

[Kern Dog]

I'm just asking for advice on this. I've never done one before and I wanted to hear from those that have had good results from their efforts.
I want to make good choices and avoid mistakes. Paying someone else to work on my stuff isn't my style. Paying more than I have to pay isn't my style either. Looking for a good value in the parts that I need just makes sense. The "Melonized" gear would work but is overkill. I already have several intermediate shafts for both big block and LA series engines so their claim of will work in all applications doesn't matter to me. I drive less than 1500 miles a year so a bronze shaft that needs replacement every 5000 miles is fine for me.
I don't buy torque wrenches or rod bolts from Harbor Freight but I don't aim for the stuff needed for a 1000 HP 8 second Hemi.
The main advantage that I see from using a roller cam is the peace of mind from the risk of cam failures being greatly reduced. The ability to run regular oil is great but again, at maybe 1500 miles a year, It isn't like I'm changing the oil every 3 months like many people do with their daily driver cars.
I have a big flat tappet cam in place now with EDM lifters for added insurance.



I have 1.6 ratio rockers so I am right close to .600 lift and huge duration numbers too. The Comp Cam I'm looking at is spec'd closer to the Mopar '528 solid I had before.
That one ran strong and produced enough idle vacuum to run the power brakes. It was a single pattern design with approximately 242 degrees of duration @ .050.

[b5blue]

www.hughesengines.com  It's all here dude. 

[Challenger340]

No wars wanted..... just my opinions based in my own experiences.... the BB Mopar short Lifter Bores with relatively LARGE intersecting Oil Gallery so close to the bottom of the Lifter Bores does NOT lend itself well to Hydraulic Roller applications.... success therein directly proportional to the amount of "wear" present in the Lifter Bores directly BELOW the Intersecting Oil Gallery that can allow excessive leakage OUT of the bottom of the Bores instead of maintaining Hydraulic Lifter pump up of the candidate Block.
Just saying that with Hydraulic Rollers you are balancing the Higher V-Spring Pressures Req'd against keeping the Lifters pumped op ?

Based in my experience only....
A guy is FAR better advised for basically the same cost to investigate a Tight-Lash SOLID Roller "Street" profile that makes Waaay better Power, Better higher rpm stability.... and once Lash Stabilized can run just as quiet as the Hydraulic Rollers !

Next time you've got a BB Mopar bare Block roll it over and shine a flashlight at the area directly below the intersecting Oil Gallery in the Lifter Bore and you'll "see" the leakage issue for the particular Blocks wear in that area.
We still don't install HR's anymore unless "Bushing" the Lifter Bores to repair that worn area.

Just Trivia....
but you will Notice that ALL oem manufacturers when converting their legacy Blocks for Hydraulic Roller usage immediately LENGTHENED their Lifter Bores for the above noted extra leakage issues the Higher Hyd Roller V-Springs require.
Chase Knight et al at CRANE did all the original "Hydraulic" Roller R & D for Ford in the early 80's... that R & D subsequently being implemented on the first "5.0 L Mustangs mid 80's and later copied by GM Small and BB later generations but never retrofitting for BB Mopars, although retro-fit Hyd Rollers are available for the earlier leagcy 302/351/sb and bb chev's they still have FAR smaller diameter Oil Galleries in their Bores and BIGGER wear areas that will work.

Just saying that with BB Mopars retro-fitting Hydraulic Rollers 'successfully" across the entire rpm range is directly proportional to Lifter Bore "wear" present in the candidate Block in my experience.... some will work fine... others NOT so much !

[Kern Dog]

I have heard the same thing about the B/RB series engines and how they were not designed for the hydraulic roller lifters. I have a 1990 360 engine that I;m rebuilding now and am glad that it was an original roller cammed engine. Yeah, the lifter bores are taller as are the lifters themselves.
I do understand the concern about the short lifter bores with roller cams but I wonder if the cam manufacturers are using a smaller base circle for the roller cams to help this situation. I didn't think to ask until this very moment.
I made a call to Dwayne Porter today and ordered a custom grind, Comp Cams Hydraulic roller with 238/244 I/E duration @ .050, .581/.578 I/E lift with a 112 LSA. The wider LSA will give more vacuum and better idle quality. This will allow me to ditch the vacuum pump for the brakes.
Dwayne made a few suggestions for additional parts needed that do stretch the wallet a bit further than I expected but screw it...I made the leap now and will go all in.
He did strongly advise to use the Melonized distributor gear/intermediate shaft based on the fact that they last and last while the bronze gears wear out too quickly, often within 2000 miles. I do apologize to B5 blue here for part of my resistance to using one, I didn't know of the extremely short life span of the bronze gears.
The timing set with the Torrington bearing on the cam sprocket was a "must" in his opinion so I'll be getting one of those. Hardened pushrods, Isky valve springs, spring shims to obtain proper installed height.....A process that I have never done before!
This isn't really a simple swap but a conversion by some measure since so many parts are different. Cam button? Bronze tipped fuel pump drive? Lots to change but the payoff is a combination that runs strong, makes power where I want it, more idle vacuum for the brakes, no anxiety over wiped out camshafts and lifters, fuel economy improvements given the difference in cam timing...

[Kern Dog]

Huges has the Melonized gear, note,,,, I would ONLY use the Johnson lifters, they are also very well known to have a lifter that solves the Gen 3 Hemi tick.

I did just order that intermediate shaft from Tom at Hughes. They had them in stock and expect to ship today.
I won't have the cam for another week to 10 days and the lifters will take even longer. I ordered the cam through Dwayne Porter so I want to order the lifters with him too. He is a well respected Mopar guy.
Next up is the valve springs, timing set, cam button and gaskets. It has been awhile since I measured for pushrods and the roller lifters are taller than a stock flat tappet style. My pushrod length checker may be too long, I used it when I swapped to a solid lifter cam in 2014.

[Kern Dog]

Somehow, I have built several engines and never had a valvetrain issue with anything despite never checking installed height or lifter preload.
Am I just lucky?
Today I ordered this:



It allows users to put it in place of a valve spring and measure the space between the spring pocket and the retainer. Now, like a few other things, I am new to this so bear with me.
I bought it based on the advice of others and am told that it is quite adequate for the job. I was told that I need an installed valve spring height of 1.860". I was also advised to order a shim kit to get me within .010 of this target number, plus or minus.
The cam will have .581 lift intake, .577 exhaust compared to my current .554 intake, .578 exhaust when valve lash is deducted. I had plenty of piston to valve clearance before but I'm going to check this setup too just for the peace of mind.
I'll need to determine lifter preload too but that looks simpler than changing and shimming springs. To measure the preload, I could simply put a dial indicator on the rocker arm or valve retainer and make note of how many turns of the adjuster it takes to get to the spec as listed. If it is 2 turns past zero lash then it will be the same on the rest of the rocker arms since they all have the same thread count.
The lifters I'm using are an improved design called Evolution which are supposed to have a reduced travel piston in the guts of the lifter.
Years ago with the Chevy small blocks, the spec was 1/2 to 3/4 turn past zero lash. This is a bit more complicated and involved than that.

[Kern Dog]

The man that ordered the camshaft for me is a well respected camshaft guy and cylinder head porting dude.
I ordered Isky valve springs part # 8005A. These were suggested by Dwayne. I chose to play it safe and ordered new spring retainers, locks and seals too. I forgot to order spring shims though even though I had the part number written down. Here is what I have spent so far:
* Camshaft, ordered through Dwayne Porter with custom specs as recommended. $505.
* Isky valve springs # 8005A. $232
* Valve spring retainers Comp Cams # 741-16. $ 84
* Retainer locks Comp Cams # 611-16 $ 39
* Valve stem seals Comp Cams # 529-16 $ 45
* Rollmaster timing set with Torrington bearing $ 151
* Intermediate shaft Hughes Engines $280
* Valley pan/Intake gaskets, Timing cover gaskets $52

I'm at $1388 and I still need lifters, pushrods, a cam button and valve spring shims. I thought that I could do this for under $2000 but I didn't expect to buy another timing set or the spring retainers-locks-seals. That all adds up to about $300 right there. I figured that the higher spring pressures should have new parts holding them in place. These heads are 22 years old with original retainers and locks. I have some low mile timing sets here but none of them have the Torrington bearing for a roller cam. Dwayne felt that it was a necessity at least as a precaution given the risk.

[Kern Dog]

Parts are trickling in.
Valve springs, retainers, locks and seals on Thursday along with a valley pan & gaskets and a timing cover gasket set.
I did order a crank socket to spin the engine back and forth with a big breaker bar.
I also bought this battery: