Too valuable to drive?

[lloyd3]

I was chatting with my brother the other day and he mentioned that he'd been looking at a '72 Mach 1 Mustang (very much like one he'd owned when we were both in our 20s).  It wasn't exactly what he was looking for (so he passed), but it did cause him to review the prices being realized for some of the cars of our youth.  He was shocked by what he was finding for 2nd generation Chargers and wanted to know how I'd responded to that fact.

I told him that it had clearly affected how I use it now. That I didn't treat it quite as callously as perhaps I once did. The bigger problem for me now is... how do I look at fulfilling the promise I made to my son years ago that it would be his someday?  The money it could conceivably fetch (in today's market) is likely to be "as good as it will ever get" (it can't keep going up in the face of all the Boomers retiring and this push for electric vehicles) and that any monetary resource realized by it's sale could help to nicely stabilize his mother's and my financial situation going forward.  I liked it much better when these cars were just old stuff that was fun to drive.

[Gold Rush]

I'm in the same situation.  My'74 SE will be my son's eventually. The saving grace to that situation is that he has some sweat equity invested so hopefully he will not beat it up too much.  The money would look nice in our bank account but the family ties of four generations now can't be bought or sold.

[b5blue]

My kids get my old workhorse. (Repaired not restored.)

[John_Kunkel]

"Too valuable to drive". I hear the same argument in the Warbird community. Some think that, because they don't make them anymore, they should be relegated to museums for future generations to see rather than risk them crashing...others think "if they don't fly/drive them they're just dust collectors". I'm of the second opinion with both cars and Warbirds.

However, I have to disagree with the notion that the prices of both can't keep going up...the rarer they get, the more they will fetch. There's always somebody with enough money to outbid any bidder...no matter how ridiculous the price.

[lloyd3]

Mr. Kunkel: I do still drive it, just not where and when I used to go. Traffic here has gotten pretty chaotic (with all the newcomers) and the incidents of jaw-dropping stupidity are becoming all-to-common anymore. I still take it out for "toots" in the mostly-empty Great Plains to the east of me here, and enjoy all the sights, sounds, & sensations as much as I used-to.  I'm just more-aware now of how hard it will be to deal with any problems that might arise.

As to prices..."the law of diminishing returns" will eventually kick in. The people who still appreciate them are all ageing out, in one form or another. Kids these days do not see cars in the same way their parents (and even grandparents) saw them either and the skills needed to both operate and then maintain them are no-longer commonplace.

[Old Moparz]

I plan to still drive my cars but just won't be going to certain places with them anymore. You can forget the supermarket on a nice day, idiots with carts that don't care are all over. It has gotten a lot more congested here in my area of NY since I moved here in 1989, but it's still not as bad as where I used to live in NJ. I still go back & it's horrible.

It was nothing to take something old that I drove into NYC, park & not worry much about it. I doubt that I would do it now. A bigger fear than an accident is to have it stolen. It's too easy to pop open a vent window, reach inside to open the door, remove the bezel for the keyed ignition, start the car with a screwdriver & go.

Something I am planning to do is to upgrade the suspension & brakes to at least be on a closer level to a modern car. This will help dramatically when you have to avoid the imbeciles we encounter on a daily basis. Both my Satellite & my Scamp have drum brakes all around & can scare the crap out of you in an emergency.

[Kern Dog]

I drive mine when the mood strikes. Car shows, grocery shopping, sightseeing, whatever. I'm not one to look for a parking spot CLOSE to the door. I don't mind walking a bit.
I didn't buy these cars for the investment angle. I bought them because of their styling and performance.

[Pinballjim]

I bought a Superbird about 18 months ago.   I went into the transaction knowing I wasn't going to be driving it unless there was ZERO chance of rain and I would not leave the car by itself.   I take it to car shows and cruise nights and even had it out for coffee a couple times.  The cafe' I go to has an outdoor seating area and I meet up with a couple other car guys.  We sit and knock back a pot of coffee but the cars are within about 75' of us.   Because of the value, I do not drive it as much as my AMX, my 409 Chevy, or my other old cars.   As a result, when I DO drive it, it's a special treat.  Hell, they're all a special treat.   We all have different situations but when you think about it, everyone here is pretty lucky to have some old iron to enjoy.  I say enjoy them while we can.  There WILL be a day when we can't.  In the meantime, Lets run OPEC dry!!

[marshallfry01]

They'll keep going up in price. The younger generation are into these cars more than one might think. I'm 30 and I have 2 69 models. Currently restoring my 383 car and I'll be starting on the R/T when I'm finished with it. And if you're worried about value, insure it for agreed upon value so you can replace it if the unthinkable happens.... But don't let the value keep you from driving it.

[Kern Dog]

I was out in mine today. It was only a 12 mile drive but I peeled out, hugged the curves, rowed through the gears and loved every moment of it.
I see no point of a car that just sits and doesn't get driven.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

40 years ago, I drove my 68 hemi Charger all over the place including from MA to the Chrysler Proving Grounds twice. Back then, early 80's cars were no more comfortable than 60's cars and I can't imagine making that trip today in the middle of the summer with no a/c, hot vinyl seats, wind blast (from all the windows open), crappy radio, etc.

The ease and comfort of driving new cars has spoiled us all and these old cars are more relegated mainly for local cruising, not distant cruising. Worrying about the value is a concern, but not as big of a concern for me. With a new car, you start it up and put it in gear just like that in comfort. Such is not the case with an older car. Buyt, older cars are fun in their own way and the cool factor is something that new cars don't have.

[timmycharger]

My Charger acts as my therapist at times. I work from home and sometimes when the stress level is at 11, Ill go for a quick spin around town, do a couple of 1 -2 shifts, get sideways a bit and all is right in the world again.

It is not as valuable as a Superbird or other Chargers on this site but It still have no worries taking it on errands, getting my haircut, going to Home Depot or whatever. I built this car TO drive it, not to bring to shows and sit next to it in a chair.

 

[Kern Dog]

40 years ago, I drove my 68 hemi Charger all over the place.
 I can't imagine making that trip today in the middle of the summer with no a/c, hot vinyl seats, wind blast (from all the windows open), crappy radio, etc.

For me, years of construction conditioned me to just dealing with the elements.
Wind, rain, noise and dust don't bother me.
I can be more comfortable in a late model car for trips, I'll admit that.
It doesn't stop me from enjoying the classics for distance drives. I'll jump into the cars and sweat, I'll deal with the road noise, the faint smell of gasoline, the vibrations and 10-15 mpg. So what...? This is how these cars were and to me, it is part of the experience. You can improve on them with A/C and sound deadening but I hesitate to adopt a fully modern approach to the old car. It sounds good to essentially put a classic skin over a late model drivetrain and chassis but then you'd lose the essence of the car. You'd have an appliance with a fancy wrapper.
Late model engines? Sure.
Aftermarket A/C ? Absolutely.
Some guys eliminate the vent windows or run quiet exhaust systems. No thanks! To me, the sounds are part of the experience of these classics!

[timmycharger]

40 years ago, I drove my 68 hemi Charger all over the place.
 I can't imagine making that trip today in the middle of the summer with no a/c, hot vinyl seats, wind blast (from all the windows open), crappy radio, etc.

For me, years of construction conditioned me to just dealing with the elements.
Wind, rain, noise and dust don't bother me.
I can be more comfortable in a late model car for trips, I'll admit that.
It doesn't stop me from enjoying the classics for distance drives. I'll jump into the cars and sweat, I'll deal with the road noise, the faint smell of gasoline, the vibrations and 10-15 mpg. So what...? This is how these cars were and to me, it is part of the experience. You can improve on them with A/C and sound deadening but I hesitate to adopt a fully modern approach to the old car. It sounds good to essentially put a classic skin over a late model drivetrain and chassis but then you'd lose the essence of the car. You'd have an appliance with a fancy wrapper.
Late model engines? Sure.
Aftermarket A/C ? Absolutely.
Some guys eliminate the vent windows or run quiet exhaust systems. No thanks! To me, the sounds are part of the experience of these classics!

Agreed, except for me, late model engines in old cars don't really do it for me. That is my personal preference as It is very satisfying to me to be able keep my 440 six pack running as well as it does, especially when I keep hearing/reading that six packs are a beast to tune. Nah, just some patience and trial and error and some expensive parts from quickfuel lol.

Dirty Turbin, I must have seen at least one of your cars over the years, did you ever attend any Northeast Mighty Mopar events back in the day? Peabody Chrysler, Smithtown RI? etc

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Dirty Turbin, I must have seen at least one of your cars over the years, did you ever attend any Northeast Mighty Mopar events back in the day? Peabody Chrysler, Smithtown RI? etc

I was not a member of that club, but did go to some local shows south of Boston & of course Carlisle PA.

[lloyd3]

I'm fixin to drive up to Minnesota next week to open up my father-in-laws old lake home there for the season. The thought of driving this car all that way (16-hours and 1,200 miles) is interesting to contemplate. Would it make it? I think so. Would it be any fun? Well...probably not. The fuel bill alone would be astronomical and I'd be sweating bullets all the way (it would also arguably be a violation of my collector's insurance policy to do so). My motivation to make this post wasn't just about my concern for its continued use, it was more about how it might affect my son's circumstances should he ever become its owner.

This car is the culmination of many years of old-fashioned hard-work, along with some significant plotting (and even scheming) to obtain it. I had wanted one since I was just a boy, so... I saved-up and scrimped (on so-many things) in order to finally own something like this. That, of-course, leaves you with a modified perspective about it all. I very-much doubt that he sees it in the same light (not that he wouldn't appreciate it, but it would be different for him).

It just drives me crazy to think what it might now be worth...

[Kern Dog]

I say if you let the car's value limit your "fun", then what fun can you actually have with it?
Do you refrain from touching your pristine, hot girlfriend to save her for the next guy? No.

[lloyd3]

KD:  A good point and well-taken but...there is a difference between a woman and a set of wheels. If you use a set of wheels the way you might use a woman, the end product isn't children and family.  The end product is a badly worn (or even destroyed) "toy" which is what these things really are now. And...like it or not, they have also become a form of "art" as well and to abuse a piece of art is a very sad thing. Also, some of us have become more "caretakers" then the consuming creatures we were when we still had youth going for us. I certainly did my share of "tearing things up" as a younger man (!) and I was lucky enough to both survive it and then learn from it, so I don't have to abuse this car in order to fully appreciate it.

I still regularly drive this car and I still really like it (there are no other cars that tempt me much anymore) but...I don't go in harm's way. I look for long, lonely roads and out of the way places to enjoy it. Another component of this is the fact that the people that helped me restore this car are mostly all gone now and what has replaced them (at least here in Colorado) are simply not that good IMHO.

I'll likely keep it and enjoy it for several years more, but the day is coming where I'll have to hand it off to somebody. I just hoping for a good situation when that time comes.

[Kern Dog]

Maybe I'm just still in my middle phase where I don't think like a more mature man. I see these cars as stuff to drive, tinker on, repair as necessary and then peel out and skid around curves. I cannot wrap my head around them being static items only existing to look at and admire. When mine are gone, I'll have pictures and memories. For now, I'm burning gasoline and tires.

[b5blue]

Admit it your 12 and still at your mom's house. 

[Kern Dog]

Mother is dead but thanks for bringing that up.

[b5blue]

Yea so is mine. 

[lloyd3]

KD: I'm making myself sound more-civilized than I am in truth.  When I get exercised about something (or if I'm just feeling a bit cocky) I have been known to pulverize the occasional Prius and even do smokey burnouts and hard-launches just to smell the tire smoke and remember my roots. The bald back tires on my car are a testament to my weakness in that regard.

It sounds like there is a shortage of mothers here.

[Kern Dog]

You have been an active member of the forum so you have my respect. I remember some of your posts and the stuff you have done. It does sadden me sometimes to see people fall into the mindset that their cars are too valuable to drive.
Some might be but it is sad to me because for me, driving them is where their value is.

[Kern Dog]

There is a member of the forum, screen name BDF if I recall...He has a green 69 Charger with a white vinyl top. Nice guy, name of Brent.
He used to post a LOT with pictures of his car out on the road. This is a valuable car yet Brent was out driving it around, enjoying it and exposing the car to what could be new enthusiasts.
When I'm out in mine, people that have only seen the cars in movies and magazines get to see them for real. To me, that is a way of sharing the history. Yeah, I'm at risk of a total loss and that would be tragic, I'll admit. I don't live by the theme of being worried about the negative outcomes, I live in the moment and try to stay positive.
I love knowing that someone gets to go to their friends and tell them they just saw a shiny red Charger out on the road. I know that when I'm in my daily driver late models that I love to see classics out being driven. I don't care if it is even a Ford or an Import. Nowadays it is US against the electrics so I'm happy to see any classic out on the road being driven.

[73rallye440magnum]

... Another component of this is the fact that the people that helped me restore this car are mostly all gone now and what has replaced them (at least here in Colorado) are simply not that good IMHO.

I'll likely keep it and enjoy it for several years more, but the day is coming where I'll have to hand it off to somebody. I just hoping for a good situation when that time comes.

Consider giving a nod to those who offered a hand in restoring. Drive it.

I'm 20 minutes south of Pueblo. Reach out any time if I can help.
719-469-145 eight.

[Kern Dog]

I have driven and enjoyed my Charger MORE since I converted it from a 727 to the Tremec 5 speed manual.
It isn't because the car is faster. I'm not Ronnie Sox...I can't shift fast like the heroes could. I'm decent but not expertly skilled with a manual transmission.
It is because the car is more fun now. The freeway cruising at lower rpms really do "civilize" a car. I like shifting the gears. Some like to say that they feel more connected to their car...may that is part of it.

[lloyd3]

This post has gone sideways just a bit. My original motivation for it was a question about how to properly leave a (now somewhat valuable) car to a family member (in this case, a son) when I was done with it. From my research, anybody attempting to insure such a car would need to be 25-years old in order to qualify for collectors insurance (the most reasonable cost model). At 25-years, I would also like to think that my boy will be well on his way towards self-reliance in this life (a job or career, a steady girlfriend/wife, family, etc.) but...I guess we'll see, right?  Kern Dog is spot-on in that unless there is some pushback from the hobby writ large, the march towards more-control over these types of vehicles is inevitable. They do not fit the model going forward of "Public Transportation" for all the reasons you can imagine. Environmentalism has replaced religion for many of today's youth (as a result of today's education system, bad in highschool and worse in college) so these vehicles are nearly demonic in their curiously semi-communist worldview.  Kern Dog is also correct in that if you own & enjoy them, use them...for tomorrow is deeply uncertain.

[Kern Dog]

Thank you Lloyd.
It holds true in many instances that if you love something, you must be wiling to fight to preserve it.
It has annoyed me from the start to see evil forces conspire to erase history whether it is statues, plaques, monuments or in our case, classic cars.
They don't understand that it isn't that we ignore the mistakes of the past by celebrating tradition, we just don't dwell on the mistakes, we focus on the triumphs.
If one were to live their life by always feeling guilty about the past, how can they ever be happy?
I drive my Chargers with a smile every time. Their simple yet effective engineering still works as well today as it did in 1970. As long as gasoline is available, these cars will run.

[nchrome]

l drive mine all the time when moma (wife)lets me.   And I still have a couple long trips planned (the ark in Kentucky, Yellow Stone. Rout 66 , and a few other places) I build mine to drive and look good not to be a trailer queen or just look pretty. If l could ever get organized to get a few Chargers together and maybe Cruse route 66 and have a great time that would be great.

[Kern Dog]

No offense but why do men marry women that are controlling and demanding?
That is a serious question.
Were these women always like that or did they start off okay and then become ball busters?
My first wife was not so supportive of my car hobby but after we divorced, she married a car guy even MORE fanatical that I've ever been.
My wife now is a dream. She never complains about the money or time I spend on the cars.
I recommend that.

[moparstuart]

thats what insurance is for  ,  Drive it like you stole it   , or else why  have it 

[Kern Dog]

I get the sentiment but I don't drive mine that hard!

[375instroke]

Just drive the damn car, and invest in stocks.