Need help with my 1970 charger RT project.

[bigdsul]

I have a 1970 dodge charger RT that has been slowly making its way to paint. It's gone through 2 body shops and I keep getting the run around from the 2nd shop as far as how much work is needed to be done to actually paint the car. Last bill I was sent I was told it was ready for paint. Now I settled up that bill and am being told there is 6 to 8 weeks worth of work left on the car before painting. Rough estimates put it at 30k for final prep. Which I find extremely upsetting as the car has 2 coats of primer and a guide coat in-between coats of primer. All seams and gaps are laser straight and even now. Body work is done. I'm waiting on some teim pieces to come in stock or become available. Namely the door moldings and mounting accessories for them. And the fender to bumper seals and mounting hardware.

I'm in Bakersfield California and I just want the car finished or I want it gone. I've grown tired of the b.s. at this point. I have over 109k into the car which is well above what a nice 1970 RT can fetch. It's a non numbers car to boot if anyone is wondering 3 speed auto console shift 440 B3 blue with black interior vinyl top and trunk stripe. I've got a lot of upgrades for the car and when it's done everything will be new or restored to new condition.

I'd like someone to be able to get the car painted and I can take it from there. If I can't get it finished up with paint, trim, vinyl top installed etc I'd like it gone.

I can't figure out how to post pictures of it but I can email them or text them preferably.

[DownZero]

You have over 109k into it and its not even in paint yet? Wow, I feel for you. No sense in selling since you'll be so upside down in it.

[b5blue]

Size the pixels to 1 meg before loading.

[hemi-hampton]

I'm confused, is the same guy that was telling you it was ready to paint the same guy that's now telling you it will be 6-8 weeks & $30k for final prep meaning no paint but ready to paint   Leon.

[hemi-hampton]

if he sez body work is done & you say body work is done what does he need 6-8 weeks for

[b5blue]

Perfection sweating.  I couldn't find anyone who would "just shoot" my 70. The guy I finally found just had to sand the crap out of it before shooting. (My 70 is just an old car to me I made that clear.)

[Old Moparz]

There is or was a member on here that I am pretty sure was in that area of CA. I cannot remember his username at the moment but he used to post all the time & did body & paint work. He was active for a long time until there were family issues going on with a piece of property that he owned. He also was posting about being offered a job with a well known shop.

Can anyone else remember his name?

Edit:  Just remembered & found his name, "Droptop" in Bakersfield, but he hasn't been on here since 2010. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=368

Maybe you can send him a private message & he will get an email notification. There's always a chance that he is still doing body & paint or can recommend a shop.

[RallyeMike]

You are always going to be well in the hole having a car restored for you, so forget about any $ upside.

I think we have all heard this story 100 times. If it was me, I would ask for an uninterrupted sit down meeting with the shop owner. Bring a friend with you who knows at least something about body and paint to help evaluate, or even pay someone from another shop for their time. Show him the bill that said "ready to paint", and ask him exactly what work, day by day, hour by hour, why now another $30k of work is needed to get to there... and then have him go over the car showing you item by item what needs to be done.   

Now get out the original estimate and ask him to explain the overage, again in detail. Tell him you are not satisfied and want the car in color ASAP. Ask him what steps can be cut at this point to get color on the car. Drag it out as long as possible and continue to repeat that you are not happy. You want to leave a lasting impression.

Then, you are at his mercy. 

[hemi-hampton]

Perfection sweating.  I couldn't find anyone who would "just shoot" my 70. The guy I finally found just had to sand the crap out of it before shooting. (My 70 is just an old car to me I made that clear.)

Been waiting for original poster to reply, he's been in here since I asked my 2 questions but don't want to reply? why is that

[b5blue]

  IDK but feel for him!

[hemi-hampton]

IDK but feel for him!

Pretty sure I know what happened here but he was kinda vague? Anyways, Why pay $125 a hour California Prices when you could of paid me 1/3rd of that or $40 a hour Michigan Price   Leon.

[Kern Dog]

Maybe he has seen your work, Leon.




 

[Mike DC]

 
Common story in the hobby.  It's been common for decades. 

- Try like hell to keep peaceful terms with the shop owner.  Although the sit-down meeting (with another body guy present) is a good one.  Deal in facts and keep your frustration under control.  Frustration/anger won't help you at all in this situation.  You don't want a guy working on your car if he is angry at you or isn't happy with the deal.  You won't like the outcome of that. 

- If you think the body shop owner is crooked then you need to change priorities.  Worry about getting your car out of there (in any condition) and get financially dis-entangled from him.     

You may have been financially abused already, but I've heard horror stories that are much worse.  Like, say, the shop refuses to return the car until you go through small claims court, and the owner leaves the primered body sitting outside in the rain until then, and he's selling pieces of it on Ebay . . . crooks are crooks.  They have no limits. 

I will stress again - If he's seriously a crook, then get the car back out of his hands ASAP.  Give him extra cash that you don't owe him, pretend to be a nice pushover, whatever. 

[hemi-hampton]

He asked for help, but doesn't come back to get help after his post

[b5blue]

Paint guy has him stressed out! 

[Kern Dog]

He asked for help, but doesn't come back to get help after his post

This happens sometimes and it makes me wonder.
I get to thinking that maybe these people forget where the post or (if they are a drunk) forget that they actually did post something.
Maybe some people get sick, get in an argument and leave their house and computer, have a computer failure, power outage, meet a chick and go on a three week boinkfest ignoring everything in the meantime or just lose interest in the car. Maybe they forget their password and can't get back on.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I'm in Bakersfield California and I just want the car finished or I want it gone. I've grown tired of the b.s. at this point.

I'll give you 12 grand, cash.

[hemi-hampton]

I'm in Bakersfield California and I just want the car finished or I want it gone. I've grown tired of the b.s. at this point.

I'll give you 12 grand, cash.

That's a low ball offer, he has over $109k+ into it. after another $30k to prep to paint & how much to paint? $15k maybe? He'll have about $155k into it.     

[Kern Dog]

For the slow and stupid, the $12,000 offer was a man making a joke.
Most of the forum understood that.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

That's a low ball offer,

Sadly, the OP not the first person to be screwed over by a body shop and finds himself financially underwater on a car.

He has stated that he wants the car finished or gone, and after spending a fortune so far, it still needs 30 grand to finish. This tells me that the car is still a mess.

Let's look at it this way:

Purchase price of 12 grand. Shipping to east coast 4 grand. 30 grand to finish the body. 40 grand (estimate) to rebuild everything else & purchase misc parts = 86 large. Tell me where I'm wrong.

[hemi-hampton]

For the slow and stupid, the $12,000 offer was a man making a joke.
Most of the forum understood that.

From dirty turbins response sounds like he was serious & not a joke.       

[Kern Dog]

To be fair, you may have to know the guy.
He is a cross between a smart ass- smart aleck and a brutally honest realist.
His response was meant to express a sarcastic view on the matter.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

For the slow and stupid, the $12,000 offer was a man making a joke.
Most of the forum understood that.

From dirty turbins response sounds like he was serious & not a joke.       

To be fair, you may have to know the guy.
He is a cross between a smart ass- smart aleck and a brutally honest realist.
His response was meant to express a sarcastic view on the matter.

It could be taken as sarcastically serious or seriously sarcastic. Either way it is to be taken, my assessment is real.

 

[John_Kunkel]

For the slow and stupid, the $12,000 offer was a man making a joke.
Most of the forum understood that.

Here's a case where a grinning emoji make intent clear.

[hemi-hampton]

To be fair, you may have to know the guy.
He is a cross between a smart ass- smart aleck and a brutally honest realist.
His response was meant to express a sarcastic view on the matter.

I can say the same thing about my post, I know dirty turbin to be sarcastic & honest, my lowball comment was kinda meant as sarcastic knowing he was sarcastic but then questioned if he was serious so i was like 50/50 is he being sarcastic or for real, his last comment still leaves you wondering in my opinion  

[Kern Dog]

I haven't owned as many Chargers as Mark. He does restore his to a higher standard where a LOT more money is spent to get them to a point where they could be national show winners. That level never interested me. I want mine to perform far better than stock and it turns out, focusing on speed and handling costs a LOT less than doing an OEM correct restoration.
When he estimates the cost to restore, he is taking a much deeper view on the work than I do. I'm not one to fuss over correct springs on the parking brake mechanisms or the proper seat upholstery. I go with function and what I like within my budget. People with an eye on greater detail look at these projects in a different way.
I didn't look close at this particular car but in realistic terms (in my opinion) the car is worth a lot more than his offer. That is based on how I see them versus his view.

[Daytona R/T SE]

Meanwhile,

The shop is adding more $$$ on the bill every day.

I wonder if the owner showed up Monday morning to pull his car out of there, how much would he have to pay before the shop would release it? 

What is the quality of work that has been done by multiple shops?

Did the current shop know what products the previous shops used?

Are the current shop's materials compatible, or is it all going to peel off like a bad toupee' on the trailer ride home?

How many parts have magically "disappeared" ?

 

All of these things will have to be considered by the current owner, or Mark, or any other potential buyer.

 

[hemi-hampton]

All good Questions, I could of possibly helped him but he hasn't been back in here since the day he posted that on the 27th. apparently not to concerned with getting help. why make a post asking for help, then never returning to see if anybody offered help     Leon.

[Daytona R/T SE]

All good Questions, I could of possibly helped him but he hasn't been back in here since the day he posted that on the 27th. apparently not to concerned with getting help. why make a post asking for help, then never returning to see if anybody offered help     Leon.

Maybe Mytur bought it already ?

 

[hemi-hampton]

The guy went AWOL/MIA    

[Mytur Binsdirti]

All good Questions, I could of possibly helped him but he hasn't been back in here since the day he posted that on the 27th. apparently not to concerned with getting help. why make a post asking for help, then never returning to see if anybody offered help     Leon.

Maybe Mytur bought it already ?

 

No way Jose. Why buy someone else's botched mess at an over-inflated price?

[bigdsul]

I'm confused, is the same guy that was telling you it was ready to paint the same guy that's now telling you it will be 6-8 weeks & $30k for final prep meaning no paint but ready to paint   Leon.

I picked the car up from New Braunfels, Texas, in February of 2023, and another shop local to me in Bakersfield started to work on it in April 2023. That shop spent about 2 months working on it, doing repairs to the hood and getting the gaps on the fenders, hood, doors, and trunk lid dialed in. The car was then primered and sanded, then guide coated and sanded, then another coat of primer done to it. That shop is the shop that told me it was then ready for paint only to say it's 6 to 8 works out and another 30k before paint. So what they want to do is  put the car together making sure everything (motor, trans, body components, windows, trim, mouldings, etc.) fits and the car is able to run and work right. Then take the parts down to the body and paint it. Then after the paint is cured etc. It will be put back together again. Basically, a majority of the parts that go on the car will be touched a minimum of 3 times before the car is done..... well, at least with that shop. That shop wants to build 500k resto mods for clientele that have the funds to burn.

So I basically gave up on the car for a while as I was focusing on my job as a travel nurse at the time and dealing with a terrible relationship at home.

Once I ended the relationship with my ex and found local work and hung up my hat on travel nursing I was able to focus on the car again.

I took out a loan against the house a couple months ago to get the parts needed to finish up the car as I needed it to be prior to getting it back home. I was looking at going over 50k on top of what's already in the car to finish it to have a non numbers matching 1970 Dodge Charger RT with a 440 and 3 speed console shift car running Holley EFI complete fuel system and QA1 stage 2 suspension system.

Well 160k spent on a non numbers car didn't agree with me and I looked into doing something more modern than the 440. I have a couple friends in the socal hellcat club that sourced a matching motor and 8 speed transmission and all the components to get it installed and running. So that's the direction I'm going now. I pulled off the older QA1 suspension, wheels and tires, and brake system. Got a 4 link rear suspension with coil overs. Tubular front suspension with coil overs and rack and pinion steering and motor mounts for the hellcat. Body stiffening kit and transmission tunnel kit from USCT. New 18x8 and 19x10 custom wheels and tires and a new shop that will put it together for 70k. Painted, running and driving with all components of the car done.

I'll be in the car every bit of 200k but I'll have a hellcat swapped restomod vs a stock 440 with some modern upgrades that I was in the hole and upside down on.

I'll have better value and more fun with the car going the hellcat restomod route vs keeping it stockish with a few upgrades.

Sorry for not getting back to the thread sooner I had forgotten about it

[bigdsul]

IDK but feel for him!

Pretty sure I know what happened here but he was kinda vague? Anyways, Why pay $125 a hour California Prices when you could of paid me 1/3rd of that or $40 a hour Michigan Price   Leon.

I'd be all over that offer for 40 an hour

[bigdsul]

Common story in the hobby.  It's been common for decades. 

- Try like hell to keep peaceful terms with the shop owner.  Although the sit-down meeting (with another body guy present) is a good one.  Deal in facts and keep your frustration under control.  Frustration/anger won't help you at all in this situation.  You don't want a guy working on your car if he is angry at you or isn't happy with the deal.  You won't like the outcome of that. 

- If you think the body shop owner is crooked then you need to change priorities.  Worry about getting your car out of there (in any condition) and get financially dis-entangled from him.     

You may have been financially abused already, but I've heard horror stories that are much worse.  Like, say, the shop refuses to return the car until you go through small claims court, and the owner leaves the primered body sitting outside in the rain until then, and he's selling pieces of it on Ebay . . . crooks are crooks.  They have no limits. 

I will stress again - If he's seriously a crook, then get the car back out of his hands ASAP.  Give him extra cash that you don't owe him, pretend to be a nice pushover, whatever. 

I've remained pretty calm over this whole thing regarding my charger lol.

I've learned a ton of patience from dealing with the original shop out in Texas.

The thing I don't have more of is time.

[bigdsul]

I'm in Bakersfield California and I just want the car finished or I want it gone. I've grown tired of the b.s. at this point.

I'll give you 12 grand, cash.

That's a low ball offer, he has over $109k+ into it. after another $30k to prep to paint & how much to paint? $15k maybe? He'll have about $155k into it.     

That's the conundrum I was at. 155k for a non numbers car when I could have got a very nice show car for around half that

[WINGMAN]

There is a 70 charger RT 440 auto numbers matching green nice car no rust new paint near me in Auburn KS. 75 k.

[bigdsul]

I haven't owned as many Chargers as Mark. He does restore his to a higher standard where a LOT more money is spent to get them to a point where they could be national show winners. That level never interested me. I want mine to perform far better than stock and it turns out, focusing on speed and handling costs a LOT less than doing an OEM correct restoration.
When he estimates the cost to restore, he is taking a much deeper view on the work than I do. I'm not one to fuss over correct springs on the parking brake mechanisms or the proper seat upholstery. I go with function and what I like within my budget. People with an eye on greater detail look at these projects in a different way.
I didn't look close at this particular car but in realistic terms (in my opinion) the car is worth a lot more than his offer. That is based on how I see them versus his view.

Some people also started collecting and selling these cars decades ago making money on each transaction to be able to get to the national show winning cars. Or have the skills and resources to build a national show winner. I don't have either. I work full-time in the medical field and have a decent assortment of garage tools but not a shops worth of tools to do a restoration of an entire car nor the full skill set needed to take on the task. I can do some engine work, wiring, brakes, etc. But no idea where to start with metal work and fabrication and painting etc.

Marks offer isn't based on anything other than his opinion and that's fine. No offense taken by it either.

[bigdsul]

There is a 70 charger RT 440 auto numbers matching green nice car no rust new paint near me in Auburn KS. 75 k.

I've seen the posting for it online. It's a nice car for sure

[b5blue]

Good luck to you! 

[hemi-hampton]

There is a 70 charger RT 440 auto numbers matching green nice car no rust new paint near me in Auburn KS. 75 k.

I've seen the posting for it online. It's a nice car for sure

I had my 1970 R/T #'s matching original paint, original 24k miles & 100% rust free California car for sale in here & elswhere back in 2016 for only $29k. a steal, I was giving it away. I believe you asked about it & was interested in it?  

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I had my 1970 R/T #'s matching original paint, original 24k miles & 100% rust free California car for sale in here & elswhere back in 2016 for only $29k. a steal, I was giving it away. I believe you asked about it & was interested in it?  

If you still have it, I'll give you 40 grand cash for it. 

[hemi-hampton]

The guy that bought it for $29k probably wants $60k for it now.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

The guy that bought it for $29k probably wants $60k for it now.

And if it was a 68 R/T, he'd want 90 large.

[hemi-hampton]

The guy that bought it for $29k probably wants $60k for it now.

And if it was a 68 R/T, he'd want 90 large.

maybe, possible.

[bigdsul]

There is a 70 charger RT 440 auto numbers matching green nice car no rust new paint near me in Auburn KS. 75 k.

I've seen the posting for it online. It's a nice car for sure

I had my 1970 R/T #'s matching original paint, original 24k miles & 100% rust free California car for sale in here & elswhere back in 2016 for only $29k. a steal, I was giving it away. I believe you asked about it & was interested in it?  

I did and I regret not pulling the trigger. Chalk it up to the million other regrets in my life

[hemi-hampton]

There is a 70 charger RT 440 auto numbers matching green nice car no rust new paint near me in Auburn KS. 75 k.

I've seen the posting for it online. It's a nice car for sure

I had my 1970 R/T #'s matching original paint, original 24k miles & 100% rust free California car for sale in here & elswhere back in 2016 for only $29k. a steal, I was giving it away. I believe you asked about it & was interested in it?  

I did and I regret not pulling the trigger. Chalk it up to the million other regrets in my life