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Sad...

Started by birdsandbees, December 10, 2023, 02:56:58 PM

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birdsandbees

..that this place is so slow even guys with parts listed for sale don't drop by.  :brickwall:
1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
1969 Dart Swinger LM23P9B190885
1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S
1966 Plymouth Satellite HP2 - 9941 original miles
1964 Dodge 440 62422504487

Daytona R/T SE

Quote from: birdsandbees on December 10, 2023, 02:56:58 PM..that this place is so slow even guys with parts listed for sale don't drop by.  :brickwall:

I check in here every afternoon about this time...not much going on here anymore
 :shruggy:




Kern Dog

Quote from: birdsandbees on December 10, 2023, 02:56:58 PM..that this place is so slow even guys with parts listed for sale don't drop by.  :brickwall:

I've tried to stoke the fires here, sometimes even posting things that are NOT annoying or offensive.

426HemiChick

Quote from: Kern Dog on December 10, 2023, 05:31:20 PMI've tried to stoke the fires here, sometimes even posting things that are NOT annoying or offensive.

Never Noticed.
Veteran - US Navy  Ex-Smoker (05 Mar 69) 55 years, heading for 100, 45 to go. Still lots to learn, lots to make up for. Weren't no angel. Fugitive from Southlake TX's Kangaroo Court

Mytur Binsdirti


Mopar Nut

Have you been to FBBO lately, all you see is planes, trains, vans, and shipwrecks. It is a real good source for news though. I don't see MoPar muscle cars posted like I used to.
"Dear God, my prayer for 2024 is a fat bank account and a thin body. Please don't mix these up like you did the last ten years."

Kern Dog

Quote from: Mopar Nut on December 10, 2023, 11:11:17 PMHave you been to FBBO lately, all you see is planes, trains, vans, and shipwrecks. It is a real good source for news though. I don't see MoPar muscle cars posted like I used to.

I don't understand the reference.
The Turban dude and I are frequent contributors at FBBO and neither of us post anything about planes, trains, vans, shipwrecks or anything unusual.
Quality tech, car chat, plenty of build threads including Turban's '70 Charger, my own '70 Charger, a few Tremec 5 speed swaps and as always, suspension and brake threads. The site is growing.
I like it here too.
Too often, this place feels like cracking a joke in an Amish community around a bunch of old, stuffy humorless dullards. I know that there were some fun loving members here, I remember swapping PMs with several. The last few years, those guys have really thinned out.

The OP is still a strong contributor at FBBO.
I remember some dudes that used to post a lot that quit coming around or barely do anymore.....
Cooter
Too Cheap To Smoke
Eccentric Magpies
Barfyspitz
1974 Dodge Charger
Invincible Extremes
Keepat
Drache
JohhnyCharger
Red and White
Our Tea
Vegas Charger.
What happened, guys?
If it weren't for Lloyd, B-5 and Tan Top and a few others, the place would be almost dead.

Mopar Nut

Quote from: Kern Dog on December 11, 2023, 12:54:23 AM
Quote from: Mopar Nut on December 10, 2023, 11:11:17 PMHave you been to FBBO lately, all you see is planes, trains, vans, and shipwrecks. It is a real good source for news though. I don't see MoPar muscle cars posted like I used to.

I don't understand the reference.
The Turban dude and I are frequent contributors at FBBO and neither of us post anything about planes, trains, vans, shipwrecks or anything unusual.
Quality tech, car chat, plenty of build threads including Turban's '70 Charger, my own '70 Charger, a few Tremec 5 speed swaps and as always, suspension and brake threads. The site is growing.
I like it here too.
Too often, this place feels like cracking a joke in an Amish community around a bunch of old, stuffy humorless dullards. I know that there were some fun loving members here, I remember swapping PMs with several. The last few years, those guys have really thinned out.

The OP is still a strong contributor at FBBO.
I remember some dudes that used to post a lot that quit coming around or barely do anymore.....
Cooter
Too Cheap To Smoke
Eccentric Magpies
Barfyspitz
1974 Dodge Charger
Invincible Extremes
Keepat
Drache
JohhnyCharger
Red and White
Our Tea
Vegas Charger.
What happened, guys?
If it weren't for Lloyd, B-5 and Tan Top and a few others, the place would be almost dead.
Not you, Greg, I like your write up on the TKO, helping a guy install a TKX and Mark's write up on the "Roach".

You haven't noticed some are posting pictures on FBBO of vans, trains, planes, and non-muscle car related subjects? They're trying to get their post counts up.
"Dear God, my prayer for 2024 is a fat bank account and a thin body. Please don't mix these up like you did the last ten years."

Kern Dog

Quote from: Mopar Nut on December 11, 2023, 01:22:06 AMNot you, Greg, I like your write up on the TKO, helping a guy install a TKX and Mark's write up on the "Roach".

You haven't noticed some are posting pictures on FBBO of vans, trains, planes, and non-muscle car related subjects? They're trying to get their post counts up.

Thanks, man.
If you're referring to the random picture thread there, I rarely click on that. There are far too many worthless pictures in there, stuff that is clearly a ploy to rack up a large LIKE count. Now, I do some non car contributions too but I only post stuff that I personally like, not just stuff aimed specifically to please the crowd. Pictures of sunsets, castles and lighthouses ....one guy posts pictures from classic used car dealerships of cars for sale as if he expects a commission if one of them sells. I have a few members on IGNORE because they never post anything related to cars they own or are working on.
There is no payoff for a high LIKE count....No gift certificates, no special privileges, nothing. I do like Naked women and memes along with car tech topics so that is what I focus on. Mark posts a lot of political topics that people like. Wayne/the OP has some beautiful cars he restores and keeps running along with his airplane interests.
That is the stuff that interests me.
Back to the original topic....
This site, specifically dedicated to the Dodge Charger will never be as busy as a site with a broader base of cars but it can still be better. We can't let our age slow down our interest in these fine machines. We are all getting older and maybe some are in declining health but we still have our minds and our computers...we all can still interact here if we just pop in a little more than we have been.

Nacho-RT74

What can I say myself, which have been member fo this community since 2002.
Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html

Dino

Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on December 11, 2023, 02:35:43 PMWhat can I say myself, which have been member fo this community since 2002.

The good old days! I joined 2003 I think. This is when we would still hang out in the chat room. Most of those old timers left.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Kern Dog

This was the second forum that I joined over 10 years ago. I'll still come around as long as I'm breathing.

70 sublime

I joined the 70 Dodge Charger site first as that is what I was working on at the time then it started to slow down then joined this one as it was a lot more busy and covered all the Chargers  :2thumbs:
next project 70 Charger FJ5 green

birdsandbees

Like anything these days this went sideways in a hurry, but it least it's letters typed on an otherwise dead forum.

A week after saying I'd buy something... still crickets. Guess I'll stick with the OE I have on the car.

As for FBBO having planes, trains and automobiles.... that's what keeps it active. If Mopar Nut wants to call me a post whore... a guy with 16,500 posts on this dead board... that's fine with me. Find someone else that helps as many members on FBBO as I do and I'll buy you a beer !
1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
1969 Dart Swinger LM23P9B190885
1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S
1966 Plymouth Satellite HP2 - 9941 original miles
1964 Dodge 440 62422504487

Back N Black

There use to be some interesting members here a few years back. Remember MoparManJim, he would post his 1/25 scale models and if anyone posted anything negative he would lose his poop. Another member, I think his name was Maxreciol, that would argue and insult anhyone who dared to take him on.

JB400

Quote from: Back N Black on December 11, 2023, 11:36:18 PMThere use to be some interesting members here a few years back. Remember MoparManJim, he would post his 1/25 scale models and if anyone posted anything negative he would lose his poop. Another member, I think his name was Maxreciol, that would argue and insult anhyone who dared to take him on.
Remember MaximRecoil real well. He picked an argument based upon the diameter of the center hub for Ford and Mopar. He lost, and shut up mostly since.

Mopar Nut

Quote from: birdsandbees on December 11, 2023, 11:25:26 PMAs for FBBO having planes, trains and automobiles.... that's what keeps it active. If Mopar Nut wants to call me a post whore... a guy with 16,500 posts on this dead board... that's fine with me. Find someone else that helps as many members on FBBO as I do and I'll buy you a beer !
I'm not talking about the ones that do help other members. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great numbers on FBBO. It just seems odd how the same planes, trains, vans and other non-automobiles get posted many times, over and over. Pictures of car shows of Mopar get deleted.
"Dear God, my prayer for 2024 is a fat bank account and a thin body. Please don't mix these up like you did the last ten years."

Nacho-RT74

Quote from: birdsandbees on December 11, 2023, 11:25:26 PMAs for FBBO having planes, trains and automobiles.... that's what keeps it active. If Mopar Nut wants to call me a post whore... a guy with 16,500 posts on this dead board... that's fine with me. Find someone else that helps as many members on FBBO as I do and I'll buy you a beer !

There is a member or two who also keeps alive the board around there on several threads with offesive posts and a frontal claimmed war... at least on the Electrical section LOL


Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html

Mytur Binsdirti

Quote from: Back N Black on December 11, 2023, 11:36:18 PMThere use to be some interesting members here a few years back.


Like Richard Cranium. Man, that guy was/is the best!

JB400

Quote from: Mytur Binsdirti on December 12, 2023, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: Back N Black on December 11, 2023, 11:36:18 PMThere use to be some interesting members here a few years back.
And now we have a display of the problem: ego's.

Like Richard Cranium. Man, that guy was/is the best!
And now we have a display of the problem: ego.

FJ5WING

Quote from: birdsandbees on December 10, 2023, 02:56:58 PM..that this place is so slow even guys with parts listed for sale don't drop by.  :brickwall:

So I see you are referring to me. yes, I do not stop in as often after selling off my wing car! That's why I put contact info in the ad!
wingless now, but still around.

Kern Dog

Quote from: JB400 on December 13, 2023, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: Mytur Binsdirti on December 12, 2023, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: Back N Black on December 11, 2023, 11:36:18 PMThere use to be some interesting members here a few years back.
And now we have a display of the problem: ego's.

Like Richard Cranium. Man, that guy was/is the best!
And now we have a display of the problem: ego.

No, Lipshitz...That was humor and sarcasm from a guy that actually OWNS Chargers.
You do not. You got ran out of FBBO from guys that saw through your BS. The main thread you posted in here was the silly word association thread, never anything technical and certainly never anything about your own personal Charger.

birdsandbees

Quote from: FJ5WING on December 13, 2023, 10:08:44 AM
Quote from: birdsandbees on December 10, 2023, 02:56:58 PM..that this place is so slow even guys with parts listed for sale don't drop by.  :brickwall:

So I see you are referring to me. yes, I do not stop in as often after selling off my wing car! That's why I put contact info in the ad!

Sorry, missed the email address in your first post... but you should have got a message notification sent to your email as well that day. Guess I'm way too use to replies within minutes on FBBO.

It was an impulse buy after your price reduction, then having a week to think about it I took the time to look at my parts all spread across the tables, for reassembly, and realized I didn't need a new one.
1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
1969 Dart Swinger LM23P9B190885
1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S
1966 Plymouth Satellite HP2 - 9941 original miles
1964 Dodge 440 62422504487

John_Kunkel

Quote from: JB400 on December 13, 2023, 09:14:17 AMAnd now we have a display of the problem: ego.


QuoteNo, Lipshitz...That was humor and sarcasm from a guy that actually OWNS Chargers.
You do not.

Where is it written that one must own a Charger to participate in this forum? Do you make the rules?

QuoteYou got ran out of FBBO from guys that saw through your BS.

And how many people have you run off of various forums for not agreeing with your political views?
Pardon me but my karma just ran over your dogma.

JB400

Quote from: Kern Dog on December 13, 2023, 01:39:13 PM
Quote from: JB400 on December 13, 2023, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: Mytur Binsdirti on December 12, 2023, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: Back N Black on December 11, 2023, 11:36:18 PMThere use to be some interesting members here a few years back.
And now we have a display of the problem: ego's.

Like Richard Cranium. Man, that guy was/is the best!
And now we have a display of the problem: ego.

No, Lipshitz...That was humor and sarcasm from a guy that actually OWNS Chargers.
You do not. You got ran out of FBBO from guys that saw through your BS. The main thread you posted in here was the silly word association thread, never anything technical and certainly never anything about your own personal Charger.
That is humour and sarcasm from a guy tooting his own horn, aka, ego.

You confuse main thread for most popular. You'll have to thank my fellow board members for making it so. Not everyone can contribute information, or is comfortable doing so, but anyone can play a game and have fun, if they can find the fun in it.

I do, on occasion, ask questions and give advise, as I see fit.

You'll have to better define, "You do not."

The only reason I'm not on FBBO was because of a youtube video which Youtube blocked, that belonged to a mod, and he blamed me for it. The funny thing is I don't know how to do what he's blaming me for.

Old Moparz

I still prefer coming to this site to read about car related things. Facebook has way too many car pages for the same things & most of them flat out suck. Also, FB seems to attract more assholes with their ignorant, racist BS mixed in. I just permanently left a car page there yesterday because it's tiring to read that stuff over & over.
               Bob               



              Going Nowhere In A Hurry

Old Moparz

It's gonna be a loooooong winter.  :rotz:
               Bob               



              Going Nowhere In A Hurry

cdr

After Photo Bucket changed their policy, LOTS of informative pictures were no more on this site when that happened things got REAL slow here, also the search funktion made it VERY difficult to find info, I still come here, Troy has done a good job, I also blame some aggressive & morally bankrupt members that have run people off, I myself have gotten out of line here in the past, but I have been attacked & fought back. I hope this form lives on. Thanks Troy for all your efforts !!!!!!
LINK TO MY STORY http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/11/16/ride-shares-charlie-keel-battles-cancer-ms-to-build-brilliant-1968-dodge-charger/  
                                                                                           
68 Charger 512 cid,9.7to1,Hilborn EFI,Home ported 440 source heads,small hyd roller cam,COLD A/C ,,a518 trans,Dana 60 ,4.10 gear,10.93 et,4100lbs on street tires full exhaust daily driver
Charger55 by Charlie Keel, on Flickr

b5blue

Well put. This forum has had a HUGE impact on my Chargers repairs and improvements.  :cheers:

Mytur Binsdirti

Quote from: b5blue on December 15, 2023, 02:17:02 PMWell put. This forum has had a HUGE impact on my Chargers repairs and improvements.  :cheers:


The key phrase is "has had" because no one can deny that there is nothing going on here lately. Some have expressed that they don't want to go to other Mopar sites because they only want to hear about Chargers, however, every B-body is in the same family and there's a tremendous amount of info that is common throughout the B-body product line. But, there are some that don't want to hear it, as evident in this thread.

b5blue

Well yea my car is as done as I need it to be.  :lol:

71dodgechargerrt

I still check in, just a bit slower. Merry Christmas all.

Nacho-RT74

This board/community came to float same as several others when a big fever of restoring classic muscle/pony/sports cars also floated on when F&F movie appeared. It was a HUGE WAVE to surf, so huge that even the TV shows got that with the initial shows on Discovery Channel like RIDES and OVERHAULING. This also resurrected the market for them and raised prices of all those trash cans, barn finds etc... the need for help to restore these was the order of the day on the web.

22 years later most of this proyects are finished, or close to that... or more cars were trashed or parted out for parts. The stock of cars on market to be restored is also way reduced, so just a few new ones (cars and fans) are still around.

Since less cars need more assistance (or large assistance at least for big proyects... replace a regulator is not a big project requiring help for a fans community), the new members will be reduced and the old members are mostly done.

Mopar repro pieces on market arrived way late. So the manufacturers of Mopar parts got less profit. They lost their moment too, and made us spend more money than it should be compared to other brands. Tried to get the same profit they could on less time and pieces made... so priced way more expensive their pieces now on a smaller market. Suckers....

Then... here we are
Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html

Kern Dog

I suggest that as members, we post of some old pictures of our classic cars, Charger or not...
Why not post some threads about some experiences we have had stuff we have learned and friends that we have had.
I've posted some pictures and memes here and there. I've started a few technical threads too.
I can't believe that in a country of this size that there are only 10 people out there that are willing to contribute to this forum.
Let's step it up, guys.

01 do it.gif

Nacho-RT74

I have at least one stickied thread LOL... not a great thread starter, but allways trying to help if I can
Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html

hemi-hampton

what ever happened to Charger-Bodie posting his Charger Restorations? where did Tufcat go, anybody remember him? Leon.

birdsandbees

1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
1969 Dart Swinger LM23P9B190885
1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S
1966 Plymouth Satellite HP2 - 9941 original miles
1964 Dodge 440 62422504487

Kern Dog

Yeah, I'm always curious about the members that no longer come around.
When I get interested in something, I am ALL IN. I stick with things because I am all or nothing.
I don't understand a part time enthusiast...The guys that like this stuff sometimes.
I know they exist, I just don't understand that manner of thinking.

John_Kunkel

Quote from: Kern Dog on December 22, 2023, 02:45:19 PMI suggest that as members, we post of some old pictures of our classic cars, Charger or not...

Pardon me but my karma just ran over your dogma.

Kern Dog

You've owned those John?
That is quite impressive. The last car in each row...Both Studebakers, right?

 :2thumbs:

John_Kunkel

Yeah, owned them all. The upper one is an Avanti II...a later version of the original Studebaker Avanti.
Pardon me but my karma just ran over your dogma.

Kern Dog

Those are great. Thank you for posting them. That is an amazing variety in the collection.

Studes are quirky but interesting.

John_Kunkel


Originally, I only liked the Stude body style...the bronze '53 pictured had an all-Mopar drivetrain. As time went on, I acquired several more Studes and kept the Stude engines and learned to accept them as baby Cadillacs.
Pardon me but my karma just ran over your dogma.

Pinballjim

I would happily post pictures of my cars.  I just cant figure out how to do it.   Admittedly, I'm not very tech savvy.   Some you all might like, some you might blast me for, but if I could, I'd share.

I have a car from every decade from the 30's up to the 20's with the exception of the teens....

1930 Model A hotrod
1940 Ford Coupe
1956 Chevy big window truck
1962 Chevy Impala 409 SS conv.
1965 Chevy Impala
1967 Chrysler Newport conv.
1969 AMC AMX
1970 PLymouth Superbird
1972 Chevy C10 Custom Deluxe
1986 Mustang GT
1989 Lincoln LSC
1996 Chevy Corvette
1999 Chevy Tahoe (daily driver)
2000 Ford Excursion (daily driver/tow vehicle)
2007 BMW 335i conv. (with a mild tune)
2020 Chevy Blazer (daily driver)

I know, I know.  There aren't enough Mopars on the list for you folks but I like all kinds of cars.  I wish I knew how to post pics.   

Mopar Nut

To post pictures, hit the preview button at the bottom. Then the button for attachments will appear right above it. Hit the attachment button and go to your lower  right and hit add files. Hit upload and then hit insert.
"Dear God, my prayer for 2024 is a fat bank account and a thin body. Please don't mix these up like you did the last ten years."

HANDM

I used to have way too many cars and have whittled them down to just a few
70 Challenger
97 Dodge Ram 1500 CC LB
17 Ram 2500 CC LB
18 Challenger T/A
91 Honda Prelude 4WS

SOLD
69 Charger
66 Charger
73 Cuda
69 Polara 500 Convertible
78 Scout Terra Rallye
87 Nissan 300ZX
00 Ranger

426HemiChick

Quote from: HANDM on December 26, 2023, 09:04:56 PMI used to have way too many cars and have whittled them down to just a few
70 Challenger
97 Dodge Ram 1500 CC LB
17 Ram 2500 CC LB
18 Challenger T/A
91 Honda Prelude 4WS

SOLD
69 Charger
66 Charger
73 Cuda
69 Polara 500 Convertible
78 Scout Terra Rallye
87 Nissan 300ZX
00 Ranger

Hi Frank,          27 December 2023

First off, we hope you and your family had a Blessed and Merry Christmas.

That's an impressive collection, past and present. We are getting our cars fixed up and ready to drive and some ready For Sale. Our Ford Interceptor is in the Ford Shop regaining its operating skills. When it's done it'll look better than new. It's more fun and comfortable to drive and ride in; it's also fast, never lost a chase.

When are you and the love of your life going to be in Phoenix again? I'm now able to walk almost like I could 30 years ago.

Wishing you and your family a very Blessed and Happy New Year!!!

Best Always
Christine for the 426 Hemi Chicks     
Veteran - US Navy  Ex-Smoker (05 Mar 69) 55 years, heading for 100, 45 to go. Still lots to learn, lots to make up for. Weren't no angel. Fugitive from Southlake TX's Kangaroo Court

Pinballjim

ABC 123

Trying to post a picture.   It's never too early to learn

birdsandbees

Seeing this is MY thread... can you two take your shit somewhere else! Thank you !!!  :pity:
1970 'Bird RM23UOA170163
1969 'Bee WM21H9A230241
1969 Dart Swinger LM23P9B190885
1967 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S
1966 Plymouth Satellite HP2 - 9941 original miles
1964 Dodge 440 62422504487

Kern Dog

Come on, Wayne....you know that just like in group conversation, the subject matter can go off topic despite your best efforts to maintain order. This isn't meant as any sign of disrespect to you, you know that.
This forum has slowed a lot but I think there are still some great members here. I am curious about the members that don't come around as much anymore.

Kern Dog

Maybe the cold weather will bring some additional traffic since we are less likely to be away on vacation?

CDN72SE

Can't believe I am going to say this but the change it web design kind of put me off. Sounds trivial but I am getting older I guess :)
1972 Charger SE

Kern Dog

There were some excellent improvements with it though. The picture program is much better.

6pkrtse

I will do my part to keep it going. I will admit. I do not come here as often as I used to. I don't like the new format. Never much of anything new to read or talk about. No one must like Chargers any more.....lol.
1963 Belvedere 413 Max Wedge
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 sixpack.
1970 Challenger R/T Drag Radial 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Road Runner 383 4 BBL
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 4 BBL
1996 Dodge Ram 2500 V-10 488 cu in.
2004 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD Dually 6x6
2012 Challenger R/T Classic

green69rt

I would be really sad to see this site shut down.  Lots of good info and advice here as well as all the shared projects. I hope it never ends.  I haven't been here for a while because of health issues. I'm trying to get back in the swing of things but doctor visits eat up a lot of time.  As soon as I have something to share you'll all see it.  I was amazed when I first logged into the "new" site.  Lot's of changes so now I'll have to get used to it.

Nacho-RT74

The only problem about the good info around is the still missed attachments somewhere in the web. I hope the issue will be fixed sometime soon by Troy. Some helpful threads are attachment based.
Venezuelan RT 74 400 4bbl, 727, 8.75 3.23 open. Now stroked with 440 crank and 3.55 SG. Here is the History and how is actually: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,7603.0/all.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,25060.0.html