Comparative B-body weights (and initial cost of each)

[lloyd3]

Uncle Tony has asserting that Chargers are heavier than all the other b-bodies and I suspect that he's right. Does anybody publish comparative weights for the various 1960 Chrysler muscle offerings? 

I went looking and what I found (on an initial pass) was the costs of a '68 R/T hemi Charger ($4,191 at 4,300 lb) Note: if the hemi added ~$700 to the price, that seems a little cheap), a '68 GTX ($3,784 @ 3,682 lbs, and a '68 Corvette L-88 ($4,718 @ 3,220 lbs). The lightest B-body I've likely ever owned was a '65 440 Coronet 2-dr hardtop, which reportedly is (w/no cost data available @ 3,095lbs).

I'd suspect that my '68 R/T is in the weight range reported for the GTX (@3,682-lbs).  Obviously you'd need to compare apples to apples (non-hemi , standard tranny, Dana 60) to be really accurate but from what I'm seeing the weight difference could be pretty significant between my Charger and what was my '65 Coronet (w/a 440 auto instead of the original 318, which surely adds weight). 

Depending on who you find to be credible, the weight difference ranges from 400 to almost 1,000 lbs  (If I had to guess, I'd say 3,500lbs versus 3,100-lbs would be more like it).  Who would have the most credible data on this? I'm seeing stuff all over the place for both original price range and weight.

It would be interesting to identify the lightest true "B" body model and model year (I'd suspect that would be something like a Savoy from the early '60s) and then, of course, the heaviest Charger (Hemi Superbird anyone?). Actually, it's more likely to be a 1974 Charger "Brougham" of some type (more luxury generally means more weight)

[Kern Dog]

You cannot rely on published weights. The only way to know is to put the car on a scale.
Some dipshit on FBBO stood by his claim that his '70 Satellite was 3250 because the published specs state it. I told him that is unusually light for even a 318 car but he was stubborn.
My '70 318 Charger was 3660 before I did a 440 swap. It was 3850 after I swapped in a 440/727, dual exhaust and front disc brakes. It is now 3980 with frame connectors, extensive sound deadener, air conditioning, 4 wheel disc brakes, a Tremec 5 speed and 18" wheels and tires. I know all of this because I weigh the car after any major change.

[John_Kunkel]

The "shipping weight" listed for most cars is supplied by the maker who has to pay shipping fees by the pound. It behooves them to list the shipping weight low to save money and many confuse the shipping weight with the "curb weight" thinking both are the same.

[cdr]

My 68, 400 lowdeck,512 cid, a518 auto trans, D60 rear, Cold AC, no hood,, HEAVY aluminum Daytona wing ,rack & pinion steering, light Centerline wheels, 3900lbs + me = 4100lbs

[lloyd3]

Gentlemen....thank you.  I knew you folks would have some insight here.  Because I was seeing information with weights all over the place, I suspected that the real weight was likely higher and more elusive.  Is there a "rule of thumb" here? I'm guessing now that my not-original but purely "stock" 440-4spd, Dana 60 '68 car is closer to 3,800/4,000 lbs ("P" code July-dated '68 motor, w/factory duel-point, Carter 4428S carb, windage tray, proper cam and heads), '70 Charger 18-spline 4-gear, & likely a truck Dana 60). Four-speeds are lighter than automatics but the rest of it is purely '68 R/T.  It is a real R/T 4-gear (XS29L8B) but it's still a "Frankenstein" and while it's as good as I could afford to make it...it's not light. My '65 440 Coronet was way-lighter. A healthy 440 w/a 727 auto with an aluminum "Torker" intake, a big double-pumper Holley carb, headers and a fuel pump/cool-can combo (in the trunk) made for a very fast "street car". This one's far easier to "live" with though (that '65 was almost my undoing). Anybody have a guess what that car weighed? I'd guess much lighter, by 600 to 800 lbs?

[Kern Dog]

The "shipping weight" listed for most cars is supplied by the maker who has to pay shipping fees by the pound. It behooves them to list the shipping weight low to save money and many confuse the shipping weight with the "curb weight" thinking both are the same.

Hmmm...That actually makes sense. Thank you, I hadn't heard it explained like that before.

 

[mr. hemi]

42 years ago, when I first purchased my '69 Charger R/T, Hemi, 4spd. in completely stock condition, I ran it across the scales where I worked at the time (Sunoco refinery). It came in at 3980# with a half tank of gas.

[Kern Dog]

I always weigh mine with a full tank to get an accurate, repeatable number.
Jigsaw, my ratty '70 Charger, was 3680 with the 383, 727, 8 3/4, heater/defroster, 12" front brakes with 10" rear drums and 15" wheels. I don't have carpet or the back seat in it but do have frame connectors, torque boxes and front and rear sway bars. Add in the full interior and it should tip over 3700 but not by much.

[lloyd3]

KD: Makes sense. Sticks are lighter than autos by what... 50-100lbs? and 440 blocks are heavier than 383s by another 50-100 lbs(?) and Dana 60s weigh a little more than the 8 3/4s by...lets say 75 lbs.  So, take the 3,680 lbs for your '70, the weight of the standard tranny (less) and the 440 (more) roughly cancel each other out, leaving the Dana along with the full interior in mine.  I'm still guessing that my '68 R/T is 3,800 lbs (give or take).  Mr. Hemi's '69 R/T at 3980 makes sense to me as the hemi adds yet another 200-250 lbs to a car.

I'd love to understand what my '65 Coronet 2-DRHT 440 (w/the added RB motor) might have weighed? What I'm seeing online now has it at ~3,100 lbs (probably a /6).  The '69 New Yorker 440 (and bigger 727 tranny) shoehorned into it clearly added weight, but how much? Another 200-300 lbs over the original drivetrain?  I'd still guess that the weight difference was significant between those two cars (say 3,300lbs to 3,800lbs?) 

[Kern Dog]

Just like with our bodies, weight just creeps up on you!



The red car has extensive sound deadening, full interior with bucket seats and console, electric truck latch, 440/495 with A/C but also aluminum heads-intake-WP and housing-Radiator-A/C pump. Tremec 5 speed saves weight over the full 727 setup.
Big torsion bars, sway bars, big brakes, heavier frame connectors, XHD leaf springs, 18" tires and wheels and the extra wiring for the trunk mounted battery. I've been as conservative as I can be with weight savings and still am at almost 4000 lbs.
Jigsaw, the ratty one is sort of a 3/4 scale version of "Ginger". Everything is scaled back a bit from the lighter 383, thinner wall frame connectors and torque boxes, bench seat, no carpet yet, smaller wheels and tires, etc. That car may get a stroked 5.7 3G Hemi and 500 or 518 transmission eventually. With all the same level of sound deadening, carpet and bucket seats-console, it should still come in under 3900 since it won't be an RB engine block.

[INTMD8]

You can go down the road of estimating weight but means absolutely nothing until you actually scale it.

I have an old sports car that I like and am obsessed with weigh reduction. (on that particular car)

As for my Charger, I thought it would be much lighter but it weighs in at 4,100lbs without me in it.

That's iron mega block, iron hemi heads but thought it would be less with aluminum intake manifold, headers instead of cast iron manifolds and aluminum TKO600 over an iron trans.

I guess offset with more weight from what I mentioned above and late model seats with integrated belts, sound deadening, and chassis reinforcement. (subframe connectors, torque box/etc)

[Kern Dog]

The modern 6.4 Hemi and Hellcat cars do show that the weight doesn't have to be a death knell to performance.
If you make enough power, even 4400 lbs can haul ass even if it is a larger one!

[cdr]

The modern 6.4 Hemi and Hellcat cars do show that the weight doesn't have to be a death knell to performance.
If you make enough power, even 4400 lbs can haul ass even if it is a larger one!

You are correct, heck my BONE stock T/A 392 ran 11.79 @ 114.5 with Drag Radials, 4445 race weight, that works out to 540 FWHP that is factory rated @ 485, I am very impressed with it.

[6pkrtse]

Chargers are heavier and options add more weight. My loaded 70'R/T S.E. while up on my racing scales was 4290 lbs with a quarter tank of gas and without me sitting in it.

[cdr]

Chargwrs are heavier and options add more weight. My loaded 70'R/T S.E. while up on my racing scales was 4290 lbs with a quarter tank of gas and without me sitting in it.

So your Charger is 400lbs more than mine WOW, mine is no stripper , Factory AC box Sanden compressor, HEAVY 46rh OD trans, Dana 60 , lots of sound deadener, a HEAVY alum Daytona wing , but you do have a iron Hemi that is heavy

[hemi-hampton]

Some of the early to mid 60's cars (like 65 coronet) had aluminum bumpers & fenders if I remember right. That will save you weight. L-88 Corvettes had aluminum heads if I remember right while the ZL-1 had all Aluminum Engine. Leon.

[Mike DC]

Chargwrs are heavier and options add more weight. My loaded 70'R/T S.E. while up on my racing scales was 4290 lbs with a quarter tank of gas and without me sitting in it.

1/4 tank of gasoline (in a stock 19.5-gallon tank) would be contributing about 30 lbs.   


So that's 4260 lbs empty?  And it doesn't have a cast-iron repro Hemi block or a rollcage or something? 

I pay attention to 2nd-gen weights and that seems anomalous. 


IIRC one of the 1960s car magazines (Car Life?) tested a stock '68 Hemi/torqueflite Charger RT and their curb weight figure was 3920.   

Yeah, yours is an SE, but I can't picture the rocker plates & leather seatcovers adding 300 lbs.

[Kern Dog]

Gas weighs about 6 lbs per gallon.
I was surprised to see that the 15" spare weighs 59 lbs on its own. My 17" space saver type spare was around 35 lbs and thinner so I went with that.
Almost 4300 lbs though...? Its as if my ex wife were hiding in the trunk, though if she was, the lid might not be able to shut.

[6pkrtse]

Chargwrs are heavier and options add more weight. My loaded 70'R/T S.E. while up on my racing scales was 4290 lbs with a quarter tank of gas and without me sitting in it.

1/4 tank of gasoline (in a stock 19.5-gallon tank) would be contributing about 30 lbs.   


So that's 4260 lbs empty?  And it doesn't have a cast-iron repro Hemi block or a rollcage or something? 

I pay attention to 2nd-gen weights and that seems anomalous. 


IIRC one of the 1960s car magazines (Car Life?) tested a stock '68 Hemi/torqueflite Charger RT and their curb weight figure was 3920.   

Yeah, yours is an SE, but I can't picture the rocker plates & leather seatcovers adding 300 lbs.

It has A/C, 26" Rad, cruise control, power steering, with cooler, power disc brakes, power windows, rear defogger, wheel lip mouldings, rocker mouldings,  door edge mouldings, A47 S.E dress up package. Front bumper guards, hood pins, rear luggage rack (since removed but in rafters), trailer hitch (since removed, also in rafters). Vinyl top, door scoops, N95 California emissions with hood sound deadening pad, so called emissions canister with recirculation tubes to the tank, etc. I guess all of this adds up. My 69 Charger R/T was only 3860.

[Mike DC]

It has A/C, 26" Rad, cruise control, power steering, with cooler, power disc brakes, power windows, rear defogger, wheel lip mouldings, rocker mouldings,  door edge mouldings, A47 S.E dress up package. Front bumper guards, hood pins, rear luggage rack (since removed but in rafters), trailer hitch (since removed, also in rafters). Vinyl top, door scoops, N95 California emissions with hood sound deadening pad, so called emissions canister with recirculation tubes to the tank, etc. I guess all of this adds up.

The factory AC stuff would add perhaps 120 lbs (above the heater-only weight).  The cast-iron compressor alone is about 45 lbs. The whole under-dash HVAC box is about 50 lbs.  (I've weighed a lot of 68/69 Charger parts myself.)  These items are heavy but the factory AC option is pretty common on Chargers.

I dunno how much the power windows or the defogger would add.  That's 5 electric motors.  The 1970 headlight door motor is a 6th one.  The '70 loop bumper is heavy too.

But you didn't add a CD player and 80 lbs of extra Dynamat during the restoration, or something?

My 69 Charger R/T was only 3860.

That's more like what I would expect. 

How was that one decked out? 

[lloyd3]

So, all this begs the question...what was the lightest 2nd generation Charger and what would it weigh? Off the top of my head it would be a stripper 1968 slant 6 with a three speed manual (small rad, no air, small diff, small brakes, single exhaust, no radio, 2-speed wiper, crank windows, no vinyl roof, & w/minimal sound deadening).

So...approximately 3,700 lbs?  Lighter?

[Mike DC]

So, all this begs the question...what was the lightest 2nd generation Charger and what would it weigh? Off the top of my head it would be a stripper 1968 slant 6 with a three speed manual (small rad, no air, small diff, small brakes, single exhaust, no radio, 2-speed wiper, crank windows, no vinyl roof, & w/minimal sound deadening).

So...approximately 3,700 lbs?  Lighter?

I'd guess even lighter.  Maybe 3500-something.

A slant-6 is 200 lbs lighter than a 440.  That's just the engines alone.   

[Kern Dog]

So, all this begs the question...what was the lightest 2nd generation Charger and what would it weigh? Off the top of my head it would be a stripper 1968 slant 6 with a three speed manual (small rad, no air, small diff, small brakes, single exhaust, no radio, 2-speed wiper, crank windows, no vinyl roof, & w/minimal sound deadening).

So...approximately 3,700 lbs?  Lighter?

My '70, Jigsaw.....



Weighed 3580 with no spare or jack and no carpet or rear seat BUT with a 383, 12" front disc brakes, big sway bars front and rear and 15" wheels. Add 120 lbs for the spare and interior stuff and I'd be reight at that 3700.
This car is 3980...

 

It is complete with spacesaver spare, jack, tire changing tools, trunk mounted battery, (extra wiring to do that, for certain) 440/495, Tremec 5 speed, aftermarket A/C, 13" front discs, 12" rear, 18" wheels, big torsion bars and sway bars, sound deadening and a few other goodies.

[Kern Dog]

So, all this begs the question...what was the lightest 2nd generation Charger and what would it weigh? Off the top of my head it would be a stripper 1968 slant 6 with a three speed manual (small rad, no air, small diff, small brakes, single exhaust, no radio, 2-speed wiper, crank windows, no vinyl roof, & w/minimal sound deadening).

So...approximately 3,700 lbs?  Lighter?

I would guess in the mid 3500 range. My 318 '70 was 3660 with A/C.
Some think the '70s are heavier due to the front bumper but the fenders are slightly lighter, there is no stamped steel cover between the top of the grille and the core support, The '70 grille is simpler than the '69. The sway bar on the '70 is narrower, Maybe the high back bucket seats weighed more than the low backs in '68 and '69.

[JimShine]

The lengths are different within the B bodies.

Length of 1969 2 door GTX, Roadrunner, Satellite, Belvedere 202.7 inches
Length of a 2 door Coronet/Super Bee 206.6 inches
Length of a 1969 Dodge Charger 207.9 inches

I suspect lots of little things add up. None of the other cars have the upper pads for the doors or rear. The default Charger also came with standard with a lot of things optional on the other lines. Like the better front suspension and larger rear end.

The real test would be to weigh comparably equipped models across the line.

[J-440]

 When I was restoring mine I had the idea that I would at least knock off around 500lbs. After all, I have an all glass front end, lightweight K member and front suspension, rack and pinion and all the other goodies. I was so pleased with myself that I took it to the scales and the official weight was............3700lbs. I guess the roll cage and Dana rear put all that weight back on. 🙄

[Mike DC]

When I was restoring mine I had the idea that I would at least knock off around 500lbs. After all, I have an all glass front end, lightweight K member and front suspension, rack and pinion and all the other goodies. I was so pleased with myself that I took it to the scales and the official weight was............3700lbs. I guess the roll cage and Dana rear put all that weight back on. 🙄

IIRC the axles (8.75 vs Dana 60) without brakes are about 190 versus 240 pounds.  It's only about 50 pounds difference.  The Dana's weight gets so much flak because it's unsprung weight, which goofs the dynamics of the rear suspension.  And heavier axles generally need heavier leaf springs to control them, although in Mopar's case they both used the same stock leafs. 

Rollcages can easily add 150+ pounds by the time you count the odds & ends.  Mounting plates on the floor, swing-out door beam hardware, subframe connectors under the floor, etc. 

Sound deadening/insulation is another one.  You can easily add 100+ pounds to an old car with that. 

Sound systems too.  4+ decent speakers and an amplifier and wiring, that's a few dozen pounds.


Glass front ends do remove weight but not as much as people think.  The hood takes off a legit 30 lbs but most of the other panels have disappointing numbers. 

68-69 front chrome bumpers are surprisingly light.  The bumper brackets & grille assembly carry more wasteful pounds than the exterior panels in the front area.   
 
Fiberglass fenders save some weight.  But the Charger fender design isn't very friendly to it.  If you just copy the stock 68-69 fender in fiberglass then the inner structure (behind the headlight area) tends to sag from the load.  If the factory had built these cars with fiberglass fenders then they would have designed the fenders differently.  Either stiffened the fiberglass more, or maybe kept the inner fender structure as a separate steel piece.