69 charger suspension upgrade help

[Hioffcr]

Hi Everyone

I've been doing a heap of research about multiple products that are on the market to upgrade the suspension on my 69 rt charger.

I won't be running it around the auto cross or even strip really, I just want it to handle a little better and be able to throw it in the corners here and there.

I want it to still look stock and keep the 15" wheels but stop it from handling like a marshmallow. I know going to a radial will help heaps so I have some mt's coming but I'd like to keep the polyglas tyres for as long as possible.

Currently I'm thinking of going to firm feel upper control arms, the lowers are already reinforced. It has a rebuilt steering box by firm feel so that's fine. What size torsion rods are everyone using and brand of sway bars?
Also is it worth going to QA1 shocks or the Hotchkis 1.5's? Or is there another brand?

Is it worth going to a complete torsion bar kit from QA1 including the k member?

Also I'd like to upgrade the brakes that are on it now to some willwods front and rear, does anyone know if the 12.1's fit inside the 15" steel rim still?

I did like the hotchkis setup except for the upper control arms being double adjustable, they look kinda ugly and I think that adjustability is a waste of time so it's a lot to buy the kit to not like or want those upper control arms

Any advice is much appreciated
Thanks again guys

[Kern Dog]

Welcome to the forum.
You'll find that with just a few of the upgrades you mentioned, the car will feel much more modern.
Many people like the 1.03" torsion bars available from PST. I run bigger bars but I like a firmer ride than some people might. You cannot go wrong with Bilstein shocks...Firm Feel can set you up with those.
Upper control arms? The advantage of them is the additional caster that you can get with them. I was able to get 5.5 degrees of positive caster with stock upper control arms using MOOG K-7103 offset bushings installed like so:



If you choose to go with aftermarket UCAs, Firm Feel and PST also make them. The Hotchkis arms look too busy for me and offer features that may be of no benefit to you. The cost is outrageous too.
A 60 series radial tire on a 7" or wider wheel will help a lot. The wider stance provides more stability.
Good luck.

[Hioffcr]

Welcome to the forum.
You'll find that with just a few of the upgrades you mentioned, the car will feel much more modern.
Many people like the 1.03" torsion bars available from PST. I run bigger bars but I like a firmer ride than some people might. You cannot go wrong with Bilstein shocks...Firm Feel can set you up with those.
Upper control arms? The advantage of them is the additional caster that you can get with them. I was able to get 5.5 degrees of positive caster with stock upper control arms using MOOG K-7103 offset bushings installed like so:



If you choose to go with aftermarket UCAs, Firm Feel and PST also make them. The Hotchkis arms look too busy for me and offer features that may be of no benefit to you. The cost is outrageous too.
A 60 series radial tire on a 7" or wider wheel will help a lot. The wider stance provides more stability.
Good luck.

Awesome thanks kern dog. Seems like I'm on the right page. I was unsure as it sounded like everyone uses multiple brands in combination to get a good setup which is sorta true   

[Mike DC]

 
What Kern Dog said.


Plus this: 
Stiffening the unibody itself.  It always helps.  The lowest-hanging fruit is to add some basic (under the floor) subframe connectors and do the factory torque-box plating. 

US Car Tool sells various stiffening kits.  For the basic stuff you don't need to cut the car chassis at all, just weld the extra parts onto it.   

   

[Kern Dog]

Excellent point, Mike.
Look at it this way....With a chassis that flexes, you don't get the most out of the spring rate in your torsion bars and leaf springs because of what is known as lost motion. The flexing chassis absorbs some of the stiffness the springs have.
With a reinforced chassis from subframe connectors and torque boxes, the chassis flexes a LOT less. This allows the springs to be more effective and the car to perform better. Other benefits are fewer rattles, squeaks and road noise since fewer things are moving and flexing.

[Back N Black]

I added Helwig front and rear sway bars,.96 torsion bars and its a big difference when corning, Now I don't end up in the passenger seat going around a traffic circle. Also, added QA1 tubular upper control arms, like KD mentioned you can get more Caster adjustment. The best up grade was the Borgorson steering box. It really drivers down the road like a modern day car. I get out on the highway and I'm doing 85-90 MPH not realizing because I'm not fighting the old steering box. That is good enough for what I use the car for. I do drive my car a lot and i don't baby it, I do a burn out every time I drive it, unless my wife is with me.

[matrout76]

I am getting ready to buy the parts to rebuild the front suspension in my 69 Charger and have been looking at Firm Feel and PST.  I have no experience with either of these companies, but PST seems to be quite a bit cheaper than Firm Feel, and they have the "non-squeak" poly-graphite bushings.  Firm Feel does have the Bilstein shocks for about $250 less per set of 4.

Any reason not to buy from PST for everything but the shocks?

I already have QA1 upper control arms and strut rods.

Thanks!
Matt

[Kern Dog]

Firm Feel is an American company where they make many of the parts in house in Washington state. PST is also an American company but I don't know how many of their parts are American made.
I have used both and had good service from both of them.
Price and availability are important as always.
I bought 11/16" tie rod ends and sleeves from PST.
I bought Bilstein RCD shocks from Firm Feel along with a Stage 3 steering box and Fast Ratio Idler and Pitman arms.
Everything was great quality but the steering box developed a growing amount of on center slop between the 11:00 and 1:00 positions like shown below:



In between the 11 and 1 position, the steering wheel turned but the tires didn't. There is some adjustment to close some of that gap but I had already adjusted mine a few times and the slop kept getting worse. I can't blame Firm Feel entirely...this is a design flaw in the Mopar Power Steering box. Most of them have the same sloppy feel in this range.
I swapped in one of these:



These are 12 lbs lighter and take up less room...and don't have that sloppy feel.

[matrout76]

Kern Dog,

Thanks for the reply!

Borgeson steering box kit is on the list as well.

I have already installed level 2 stiffening kit from USCT (subframe connectors, lower radiator core support stiffener, torque boxes, and inner fender braces)

I'm working hard to finally get the car off the rotisserie and on the ground by the end of February.