The verdict on EFI...I DO NOT recommend..

[AKcharger]

I gave it a chance and its just not worth the headache. Issue now is sometimes car starts, sometimes it doesn't. At BEST I'll have to invest HOURS on the phone with Holley or scrubbing support forums to figure this out. big mistake, should have left the carb on.

Disclaimer- I had a shop install it and they butchered the wiring. I thought I had it fixed now this. its POSSIBLE with proper installation these are fine, but my experience has been VERY disappointing.

[b5blue]

Sorry to hear this. I can't afford to play in this field so I just had to work out the kinks in my 750 Proform. 

[AKcharger]

Probably the smartest thing. seems like I flushed $2500 down the toilet...along with a bunch of time

[Kern Dog]

Sorry to hear this. I can't afford to play in this field so I just had to work out the kinks in my 750 Proform. 

I have plenty of money but I see no advantage to EFI where I live. Maybe for those in snowy climates or people that drive from high elevations to low elevations, the EFI really shines.
Carburetors have been working for over 120 years.
Sorry that this didn't work out for you, AK. It does suck to spend the money and see no gains from it.
The mantra that I've heard is that the wiring has to be right. There are too many issues with bad grounds and improper signals that the EFI computer relies upon. Carburetors are mechanical, vacuum and hydraulic. All of that stuff you can see and adjust. The Electronics of EFI are invisible and hard to diagnose and fix.
Some guys swear by the new EFI systems. Surely they are smarter than we are and can get out in front of problems before they ever happen.

[b5blue]

I assumed that system had it's own "OBD"?  (That it could give you why it's not starting.)

[John_Kunkel]

My experience has been the exact opposite, I'm happy with my FI TECH installation. Biggest advantage for me is the car sits for extended periods and starts right up without touching the throttle.

[Kern Dog]

I've heard of more problems with the FITech systems than any other.
Control module problems where the ECU just craps out without warning and you're stuck.
My Demon 850 can sit for well over a month and still start up within 15-20 seconds.
Not as good as a well tuned EFI system but not like some guys say.....the guys that crank and crank for 2 minutes or more!

[b5blue]

Switching to non ethanol eliminated starting issues.   

[Kern Dog]

I've ran mine between 110 in the Summer and 35 in the Winter. CA gas is "Up to 10% ethanol". The car runs fine.

[John_Kunkel]

I've heard of more problems with the FITech systems than any other.

The nearest competitor to FI Tech is the Holley Sniper. Peruse the various forums and you'll find nearly equal problems with both. The problem is no manufacturer can duplicate all of the parameters that their systems will be installed in and when there's a malfunction the EFI gets the blame. We all know car enthusiasts with minimal knowledge/skill who blame their tools for every screwup.

Instant startup isn't the only advantage of EFI, the user programs the target idle speed and it remains constant through all modes, no fast idle at cold startup, no rpm drop when placing an automatic into gear, no RPM fluctuation when the A/C compressor clutch cycles, etc. No vapor lock or carb boiling during a hot soak, the list goes on.

Some systems have the capability of sensing the fuel (flex fuel) and adjusting themselves accordingly. And last, list the new cars that currently use carburetors...there's a message there.

[Kern Dog]

I do agree.
A well sorted EFI system will have improvements worth the cost and effort.
I also agree that there are many enthusiasts that do not have the skills and patience to complete an EFI installation properly. I'd bet that a majority of issues arise from poor grounds and improper installation. Simply put, a carburetor will still allow the engine to run even if the jetting is a mile off. EFI can leave you stranded with one small mistake that isn't immediately obvious on how to fix it.
Carburetors are not foolproof but they can still get you home even when they are not tuned right.
I do respect those that have a well sorted EFI system. I do think though that one huge disadvantage the aftermarket EFI systems have is that they didn't benefit from the millions of dollars of development that was spent on an OEM system. Most are throttle body systems that don't quite match a modern port injected system with a dry intake. The throttle body systems are a half measure compared to what the new cars have.
Of the two friends that have had a FITech system, one kept it, the other went back to a carburetor. The guy that kept his is an actual mechanic with a lot more automotive skills than the other guy. To me, that suggests that the success of the system is related more to installer skill rather than product quality.

[Mike DC]

Sorry it didn't work out AKcharger.  It sucks to dump in the money & effort and feel like you're back where you started.  But thanks for posting up about it for the greater good. 


What Kern Dog said about the aftermarket EFI systems not having OEM-grade development & debugging . . . very true.  And there is the inherent problem with aftermarket anything - the electronics are a crap shoot.  It seems like buying "the good brand" just means only 10% of them will be dead right out of the box instead of 30%. 

From what I've seen & heard, the results of EFI conversions are all over the map.  Some guys love them, others cuss about them, and everything in between. 


The last generation of carbs that the OEMs used (1970s-80s) had evolved another whole notch from the 1960s-based carbs that most of us play with.  They were doing spread-bore 4bbls, pressure/altitude compensators, and electrically closing fuel bowl vents.

Today I think half the demand for $2000 EFI conversions could be met by a brand new fully-optioned 1985 Thermoquad.  I wish the latter was available & supported (new jet tuning kits, etc).   

Another alternative is that Holley & Edelbrock could start incorporating some of those driveability features (at least as add-on options) to their muscle-era aftermarket carbs that everybody is familiar with.  I mean, it wouldn't be that hard to add some hardware for closing off the float bowl vents.  That way the car could sit for a few days and then start up on the first crank. 

[Kern Dog]

I do appreciate how my 2007 Ram 1500 starts and runs the same no matter the weather.
My '70 Charger does the same thing though. I'm not bullshitting....it has a Demon 850 that I've tuned to run in the high 13s AFR at cruise, mid 11s at WOT and while that may seem rich, this is with 10% ethanol.
If my old cars didn't run as good as they do, I'd consider EFI.
My "Jigsaw" Charger:



Has a 383 with a Holley 750, a 280-474 MP cam, 1 7/8" headers and runs pretty good in the weather conditions I've driven it in as well BUT I'm considering a 3G Hemi swap for it eventually.

I want to build a long stroke 5.7 to reach close to 394 cubes. I'll run the factory intake and EFI and a A500 or a 518 4 speed automatic to generate 24 or more MPG and a 12 second 1/4 mile ET.
The 6.4 Challengers are almost 600 lbs heavier so I think the goals I have are attainable.
It will test my skill level, that is for sure.
The car is right at 3600 lbs as is with an incomplete interior but with a 3G Hemi and the rest of the interior in place, I think I might be back to the 3600 lb number.
This will have the advantage of OEM durability and reliability as well as a parts supply as close as any Dodge dealer.

[AKcharger]

I think what I'm running into now is a Voltage problem, alt is only putting out 12-12.4 volts. I but battery on charge all night and it started up fine 5 times so going alt rebuild direction.

Now I'm pretty sure I'll get it ironed out, but for the effort/$$ vs. how much I drive it...not worth it at all.

[b5blue]

https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/pages/ChryslerMegaAmp.php 

[John_Kunkel]

so going alt rebuild direction.

Since you stated that a shop "butchered the wiring" I would do some troubleshooting before shotgun replacing the alternator.

[Kern Dog]

Here is one for you, AK:




 

[cdr]

I think what I'm running into now is a Voltage problem, alt is only putting out 12-12.4 volts. I but battery on charge all night and it started up fine 5 times so going alt rebuild direction.

Now I'm pretty sure I'll get it ironed out, but for the effort/$$ vs. how much I drive it...not worth it at all.

Needs a relay off the ign switch to the ECU

[cdr]

Here is one for you, AK:




 

I can do EFI and carbs, my efi works awesome, high 10's 1/4, pretty good mpg. drive it anywhere.

[AKcharger]

Alt WAS bad and it's wired in perfect agreement with instructions including ignition to ECU...which shop had wired to pos side of coil 

[Kern Dog]

I've seen dipshits use the coil POS terminal to power accessories...

[AKcharger]

OK, ALT WAS bad but that wasn't the issue of Sometimes it starts sometimes it doesn't" Well, after talking to Holley, snipers are VERY finicky about power, seems my Radiator fans, which are wired to the ignition, are too much of a power draw. Pull fuse on fans & car starts every time. The Sniper is wired to control electric fans...But now I have to buy the $55 additional wire harness to use that ONE wire. 😠 Anyway, while researching all the headaches people have with this set up I saw several mention interference from the coil so I made up a hi-tech guard lol

[b5blue]

Good luck! The factory ALT. is kinda weak even in top shape. 

[Kern Dog]

No, the factory alternator is fine and totally adequate when the car is fairly stock.
I have the high output 63 amp unit and it keeps up just fine even with a few extra accessories.

[b5blue]

Yea kinda weak.