Anyone here familiar with the GM 350?

[Dino]

Because I don't and I would like to. 80s TV nut that I am, I bought myself a 1984 GMC Vandura that will have a familiar black, silver, and red paint job. But it has a 305 and I would like a little more oomph. Since it's a van it will be used for hauling stuff so I want HP and torque somewhere in the 350-400 range. I'm also looking for a 1982-1992 Trans Am which will have some KITT parts on it but without the crazy expensive interior. Some of the later ones had a 350 TPI which seems adequate for a fun ride, but again many of them have an underpowered 350 or 305. I'm not willing to get a loan to afford an LS block so what's the best way to go here? Buy a couple 350 blocks and tune them a bit? Put a TBI on it and call it a day? Help is appreciated.

[Kern Dog]

Is there is an emission testing program where you live?
I replaced the 305 with a 350 in my '84 Chevy truck. I had to change the chip in the computer. No smog mechanic could tell that it was a 350. They look the same from the outside. The computer chip supposedly accommodated for the carburetor and distributor settings.

[Dino]

If there is an emission testing program where you live?
I replaced the 305 with a 350 in my '84 Chevy truck. I had to change the chip in the computer. No smog mechanic could tell that it was a 350. They look the same from the outside. The computer chip supposedly accommodated for the carburetor and distributor settings.

Nope no testing or checks. As long as you're not losing parts on the freeway they don't care. There's a TA I like but it has the damn 305 again! 

[Pinballjim]

I think you'll find most T/A's have the 305 although some have the 350.  I remember when the 350 was first available in the T/A (and the Camaro), it was not offered with A/C.  That changed a few years later.  The 84-87 Monte Carlo SS was powered by a 305 too.   

[70 sublime]

We have had some 350 stuff around here at the farm
Just remember the chev and pontiac are not the same bolt pattern at the transmission
One is pointed at the top and one swoops down at the top where they bolt to the engine

[Kern Dog]

By the time the 3rd generation Firebird came out, they only had Chevy V8s in them IF they had a V8.

[Mike DC]

            
For both of those vehicles you've got bigger problems than the engine.  Those are probably both 700r4 automatics from the factory, which were on the weak side.  

The studio KITT cars ran mostly the stock 305 V8 (with emissions & fuel injection removed).  But they swapped the stock trannys out for an earlier turbo 350 (3spd auto).  
-----------------------------


GM automatics:

turbo 350 = GM's torqueflite 904.  It works.
turbo 400 = GM's torqueflite 727.  It works.


700r4 (called "4L60E" after it went electronic) = GM's torqueflite 904 with overdrive.  Mediocre design.  It can be beefed-up with aftermarket stuff (everything can).

"4L80E" - electronic version of a turbo 400, with overdrive.  It's strong but it's physically big and heavy.  


200-4r - another small 4spd overdrive like the 700r4.  Not electronic.  It's weak in stock form but it responds better than a 700r4 to aftermarket help.  

Powerglide = 2 speed.  The aftermarket actually makes these things very strong.  But nobody wants a street cruiser with 2 gears.  
-----------------------------------


In a KITT replica you could get away with a beefed-up 700r4.  You probably don't intend to beat on it very hard.  

For the GMC van I wouldn't mess with a 700r4.  That thing is a whole ton heavier than the KITT car.  And there would be more room underneath for a bigger trans or a gear vendors.  Give it something from the turbo 400/4L80E family.    



Also - those 1980s Firebird unibodies were built about 100 lbs too light.  T-tops make it worse.  Definitely look into subframe connectors and whatever else the F-body guys are using to stiffen them up.  

The TV show actually used a few hardtop KITTs for stunt cars.  They stuck some trim pieces onto the roof to mimic the T-top appearance at a glance.  Pontiac had donated a batch of body-damaged cars (from a train derailment accident during shipping) and they weren't all correctly optioned for KITT.

[b5blue]

Finish the Charger!    LOL 

[Dino]

I think you'll find most T/A's have the 305 although some have the 350.  I remember when the 350 was first available in the T/A (and the Camaro), it was not offered with A/C.  That changed a few years later.  The 84-87 Monte Carlo SS was powered by a 305 too.   

Yeah I noticed that. There's a few I found with the 350 TPI which seems to be a good option, but they're a bit more pricey. An LS transplant would be great but not cheap and more project than it needs to be. I probably should drive a few cars first. For the occasional cruiser a tuned 305 may do the job. 

[Dino]

By the time the 3rd generation Firebird came out, they only had Chevy V8s in them IF they had a V8.

Good to know. Yesh lots of V6 engines in these.

[Pinballjim]

I think you'll find most T/A's have the 305 although some have the 350.  I remember when the 350 was first available in the T/A (and the Camaro), it was not offered with A/C.  That changed a few years later.  The 84-87 Monte Carlo SS was powered by a 305 too.   

Yeah I noticed that. There's a few I found with the 350 TPI which seems to be a good option, but they're a bit more pricey. An LS transplant would be great but not cheap and more project than it needs to be. I probably should drive a few cars first. For the occasional cruiser a tuned 305 may do the job. 

As long as you're not street racing the thing, a 305 should be fine.   Not every car has to be over the top.  Sometimes a nice burble out of a dual exhaust is just what the doctor ordered.   

[Dino]

           
For both of those vehicles you've got bigger problems than the engine.  Those are probably both 700r4 automatics from the factory, which were on the weak side.  

The studio KITT cars ran mostly the stock 305 V8 (with emissions & fuel injection removed).  But they swapped the stock trannys out for an earlier turbo 350 (3spd auto).  
-----------------------------


GM automatics:

turbo 350 = GM's torqueflite 904.  It works.
turbo 400 = GM's torqueflite 727.  It works.


700r4 (called "4L60E" after it went electronic) = GM's torqueflite 904 with overdrive.  Mediocre design.  It can be beefed-up with aftermarket stuff (everything can).

"4L80E" - electronic version of a turbo 400, with overdrive.  It's strong but it's physically big and heavy.  


200-4r - another small 4spd overdrive like the 700r4.  Not electronic.  It's weak in stock form but it responds better than a 700r4 to aftermarket help.  

Powerglide = 2 speed.  The aftermarket actually makes these things very strong.  But nobody wants a street cruiser with 2 gears.  
-----------------------------------


In a KITT replica you could get away with a beefed-up 700r4.  You probably don't intend to beat on it very hard.  

For the GMC van I wouldn't mess with a 700r4.  That thing is a whole ton heavier than the KITT car.  And there would be more room underneath for a bigger trans or a gear vendors.  Give it something from the turbo 400/4L80E family.    



Also - those 1980s Firebird unibodies were built about 100 lbs too light.  T-tops make it worse.  Definitely look into subframe connectors and whatever else the F-body guys are using to stiffen them up.  

The TV show actually used a few hardtop KITTs for stunt cars.  They stuck some trim pieces onto the roof to mimic the T-top appearance at a glance.  Pontiac had donated a batch of body-damaged cars (from a train derailment accident during shipping) and they weren't all correctly optioned for KITT.

Thanks for all the info Mike! I doubt I will be rough with the car but stiffening the frame is a good idea. Honestly I would prefer a hardtop. I would never use the T-tops. I never even use a sunroof. The sun and my lilly white skin don't agree. If I ever should make a full KITT replica then I would want the tops but I don't know if I ever would. I like the idea of having the KITT nose, scanner , rear spoiler, and tail light blackout panel, but give the car a different color and different wheels. I do like the PMD seats used in KITT and I have the original fabric to upholster the entire interior, but the seats are damn expensive.

Finish the Charger!    LOL  

LOL I know! And after the Charger I have the Delorean, a 64 Vespa, a 63 Lambretta, and an 81 Yamaha Virago cafe racer project to do!  

[Dino]

I think you'll find most T/A's have the 305 although some have the 350.  I remember when the 350 was first available in the T/A (and the Camaro), it was not offered with A/C.  That changed a few years later.  The 84-87 Monte Carlo SS was powered by a 305 too.   

Yeah I noticed that. There's a few I found with the 350 TPI which seems to be a good option, but they're a bit more pricey. An LS transplant would be great but not cheap and more project than it needs to be. I probably should drive a few cars first. For the occasional cruiser a tuned 305 may do the job. 

As long as you're not street racing the thing, a 305 should be fine.   Not every car has to be over the top.  Sometimes a nice burble out of a dual exhaust is just what the doctor ordered.   

Very true. And with some wrenching it may run pretty decent. 

[Kern Dog]

Regarding the 350 not being available with A/C, I don't think that is correct.
I do recall that the 350 was not available with a 5 speed manual. The 305 could have had either the 700R4 or the Borg Warner T-5 5 speed.

[Mike DC]

      

Thanks for all the info Mike! I doubt I will be rough with the car but stiffening the frame is a good idea. Honestly I would prefer a hardtop. I would never use the T-tops. I never even use a sunroof. The sun and my lilly white skin don't agree. If I ever should make a full KITT replica then I would want the tops but I don't know if I ever would. I like the idea of having the KITT nose, scanner , rear spoiler, and tail light blackout panel, but give the car a different color and different wheels. I do like the PMD seats used in KITT and I have the original fabric to upholster the entire interior, but the seats are damn expensive.

One time the TV show had KITT in grey primer for a few scenes.  It gives you an idea of what a non-black KITT body would look like.  




BTW, running the KITT red scanner light isn't legal in most places.  Red lights are supposed to be brake/rear lights only.  They make amber yellow KITT scanners too.  

Me, I would probably want a setup with switchable LEDs so you could choose from several colors.  It seems like that scanner would make a perfectly good center headlight if you could turn the whole thing on at once (no back & forth strobing) in white light.  

The KITT nose also poses a problem for the front amber signal lights (located beside the headlights).  In the early seasons of the TV show they had smoked clear covers so the signals could still be seen.  By the later seasons they had abandoned the covers and molded the whole nose in one piece.  


Spot the nose differences.  Neither one actually has the clear signal light covers, but the nose on the car still has molded indentations for them. The nose on the ground has them totally eliminated.    





Stock Firebird signal lights shining through the tinted clear covers in an early-season KITT nose:

[Dino]

That car looks good in any color. I saw one recently that had the 4th season nose with the 6 lights, and the owner made the outside lights the turn signals. That was pretty slick.

I'm picking up an 86 TA on Tuesday. It needs loving and doesn't have a title, but it's dirt cheap and has the coveted PMD seats. Also has a 350 and lots of other goodies I can use, or sell. I'm going to look at a 91 Formula as well. It has the 305 TPI. It has sat for a while so it will need some attention, but it looks great inside and out and wouldn't take much to get it going. I need a bigger garage...

[Kern Dog]

The GM F bodies were underpowered but they handled well.

[b5blue]

Just avoid "OPti Spark" ignition, whatever years that was.

[426HemiChick]

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        I need a bigger garage...

Hi Dino,             28 September 2022

"I need a bigger garage..." If there's one thing a car person needs and wants is a Bigger Garage and the land to put it on.

The development we are in here in Phoenix has an HOA which probably wouldn't allow a dog house to be added. That's why we bought the house next door, it's for our pups. A side benefit is it has a two car attached garage and the pups don't have cars. We get the garage.

We are guessing it's the largest Dog House in Phoenix.

Best Always

425 Hemi Chicks

[451-74Charger]

           
700r4 (called "4L60E" after it went electronic) = GM's torqueflite 904 with overdrive.  Mediocre design.  It can be beefed-up with aftermarket stuff (everything can).

Actually, you forgot the cable operated 4L60 (I had that in my 93 TA). Then, it became the 4L60E.
Both are prone to bearing failures and I have actually managed to burn up 2 sets of 3/4 bands in 2 TAs in less that 30k miles. they are too weak for the 350ci motors.

[b5blue]

Just do a reverse swap, 360 with a 727 out of a truck. 

[moparguy01]

On this 85 vette i bought last year, it had the factory tpi 350. It was locked up so i built a roller cam 383 stroker for it. I had to go to an aftermarket fuel injection, a holley sniper to handle the engine.

The factory tpi was ok. But it cant breathe above 5k rpm very well. And it isnt great for performance. Since my engine is almost 500 hp, it didnt cut the mustard.

That said, the tpi engines had good low end torque. I never understood why they never put that engine in trucks where it belonged.

I might have all of it still if you want me to look.

and the 305s...well...somewhere there is a boat missing its anchor. Every one i have owned was a complete turd.