Suspension upgrades?

[misty440]

Good afternoon everyone,
Wondering in what order I should upgrade? i currently have a 70 Charger RT, heavy duty torsion bars, QA1 front shocks to be installed, stock front sway bar and a steer and gear hi po steering gear box. I am looking to upgrade for better street drive ability, but not sure in which order to go? thinking rear sway bar ( which brand is recomendable), rear shocks, how do i know if i should replace my stock rear leaf springs? should i replace with HD springs? I am also looking to upgrade to rear discs, any suggestions? 15" rims 4" backspacing.
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions
Chris

[Mike DC]

  
Start by stiffening up the unibody.  Get the US car tools kit with the subframe connectors + torque box plating + radiator core support + shock tower-to-firewall braces.  There is no need for cutting the car, just add these extra metal pieces onto it.  This kit generally mimics what the factory changed on the B-body platform in the later 1970s.  It's well-chosen stuff.    


Don't stiffen up the factory R/T rear leafs.  If anything they are little bit too stiff, at least when it comes to cornering/handling.  It's the factory front torsion bars that were too soft.

Good modern shocks and stiffer sway bars are the lowest-hanging fruit when it comes to the moving parts.  And you have to stiffen the sways together or it creates a front-rear mismatch.  Add a small bar to the rear + add a slightly thicker bar to the front.  

When it comes to sway bars and torsion bars, don't overdo it.  Round bar spring rates ramp up dramatically as the diameter gets bigger.  A 1.19" diameter bar is DOUBLE the stiffness of a 1.00" bar.    

On the front end, you will like the steering better if you move the upper ball joint back (towards the rear of the car) to add caster angle.  Offset bushings add a few degrees and aftermarket upper control arms add more.  This fix gives the steering the "centering" action that modern cars have - you can let go of the steering wheel at speed and the steering starts pulling itself back to pointing straight.    


This whole topic has been covered countless times on the forums.  Like, in great detail.  Search it.  

[misty440]

thanks Mike

[pipeliner]

Man don't go too stiff unless your car is full blown track car, drag and road. Just road in my buddy's Level 3 US car tool, Hotchkis suspension everything and that thing is a jolt wagon. He hates it!!! He's jerking the big T- bars and sway arms out and going smaller hoping it will soften the ride up some. All you need is the subframe connectors. You'll be blown away just how much they'll stiffen your car up alone but still give enough flex to where it won't mAke it feel like a Go-Cart. After I got my front suspension done my buddy loves it. I'm running sub-frame connectors only, 1 1/8 Hellwig sway bar, Adjustable Viking shocks, PST 1.03 T-Bars, upgraded 11/16 tie rods with Qa1 Sleeves, Qa1 strut rods, Qa1 Tubalar LCA,s and upper SPC adjustable A-Arms. The Adjustable upper arms is the ticket. You can get so much more driveability out of them per say the off set bushings. I have a 70RT that's a driver and steet car and for me the Hotchkis SA and T-Bars are just too big for my liking and their A -Arms and strut rods are just Ugly and I can't do ugly.

[Mike DC]

  
A stiffer unibody is not a drawback for ride smoothness.  Not unless the rest of the suspension is mismatched to it or something.  

A jarring ride comes from stiffer springs/bars/shocks and removing rubber bushings.  



Think of a riding a skateboard.  If you want it to be smoother then you need softer rubber wheels and axle 'truck' bushings.  If the wooden deck of the board is flexing then that's a drawback.  You want the deck to be rigid no matter what you're doing with it.    

Chrysler added more stiffening to the B-body chassis in the mid-1970s.  They did it at the same time they were adding rubber isolators all over the K-frame & axle to make the ride softer.  

[Kern Dog]

Good points, Mike.
A rigid body has the opposite effect of harshness. The reduced flex results in less of a "spring" to the car structure.... so you could actually have more precise action from the suspension. In other words, the torsion bars/springs have less "lost motion" since the framework is rigid.

Shocks, man....SHOCKS really make a difference.
I went from 1.0 torsion bars and KYB shocks to 1.15" torsion bars and Bilstein RCD shocks. The ride improved and brake dive decreased. Win/Win.
Urethane lower control arm bushings are responsible for a lot of vibration while providing minimal "handling" improvements.
Your biggest gains in terms of urethane would be in sway bar and strut rod bushings.

[472 R/T SE]

I installed connectors in an all #s matching 70 R/T SE, welded.

Just going in and out of our sloped driveway made a world of difference.  No more sounds like its gonna fall apart.

[pipeliner]

I installed connectors in an all #s matching 70 R/T SE, welded.

Just going in and out of our sloped driveway made a world of difference.  No more sounds like its gonna fall apart.

Exactly and that's all you need. What a world of difference it makes. These level 2 and 3 kits are just overkill unless you're a road or a drag racer. We have a lot of rough roads where I live and my buddy's GTX Hotchkis and level 3 set up is just too rough. Yeah it's awesome on a nice paved curvy roads and shocks ain't going to help you if your spring  rate is too stiff. My 1.03 bars with tuneable Viking shocks ride, drives so much better than his car does. If you dont have tuneable shocks to match your suspension set up you're just waisting your time doing any type of suspension upgrade IMO.

[71charger_fan]

On my '71, I'm strongly considering switching my Hotchkis upper control arms for QA1 to swap the rod ends for bushings to remove a bit of harshness.

[472 R/T SE]

I installed connectors in an all #s matching 70 R/T SE, welded.

Just going in and out of our sloped driveway made a world of difference.  No more sounds like its gonna fall apart.

Exactly and that's all you need. What a world of difference it makes. These level 2 and 3 kits are just overkill unless you're a road or a drag racer. We have a lot of rough roads where I live and my buddy's GTX Hotchkis and level 3 set up is just too rough. Yeah it's awesome on a nice paved curvy roads and shocks ain't going to help you if your spring  rate is too stiff. My 1.03 bars with tuneable Viking shocks ride, drives so much better than his car does. If you dont have tuneable shocks to match your suspension set up you're just waisting your time doing any type of suspension upgrade IMO.

I followed firefighters recommendations and copied Hemidougs work to his '69 Hemi car.  My loop is bolted to the connectors.
Our driveway was extreme.  Prior to connectors you could see the pass door move within the frame since I had to negotiate the driveway at an angle to keep the ttis from gouging the concrete too bad.
Then again, my cars close to #4500, lol.

I eventually made wooden ramps to drive up and over so I could drive straight into driveway.  It was just a lot of work being in a chair having to get out, etc.

[Mike DC]

Then again, my cars close to #4500, lol.

That's a 2nd-gen? 

What are you carrying in that thing? 

[pipeliner]

Then again, my cars close to #4500, lol.

That's a 2nd-gen? 

What are you carrying in that thing? 

I wouldn't doubt if my car wouldn't go that also after all what I added to mine lol but I am going to put mine on a scale. It's getting sound deadening on top of thermal insulation. Line-X,d completely underneath. Boxing in the trunk, adding more carpet, sound deading, speakers, spare tire and Jack that you can actually Jack a car up with and a keep a cooler full of water and Whiskey at all times.

[Mike DC]

   
I'm always interested in real (measured) 2nd-gen curb weights because they are all over the place.  There's about a 700-lb range just among the near-stock street cruisers & restomods.  That's not even counting gutted racecars with fiberglass & lexan. 

[472 R/T SE]

Troy was riding with me when we stopped @ a set of Washington state scales.  I did all the work after that.  You can ask him.  The two of us were around 43hundred something back then so I guesstimated the connectors, loop, Cal Tracs to put me around #4400.  It very well could be heavier than that?

My cars loaded to begin with.  PW, rear window defroster, etc. so its a pig, lol.  I carry a lot of shit in the trunk too.

It run high 12's with slicks.  The Cal Tracs barely helped my sixty footers.

I have a new 3:91 Power Lok to install.  Anxious to see what it'll do.  That motor winds out like a small block so I'll have my hands full.  I installed the Gear Vendors with that Power Lok in mind.
Factory A36 car, 3:55 which is a nice ratio.
Always shifted my bb mopes right before 6k rpm, but that Hemi likes being shifted around 6200, lol.  Plus the dyno numbers showed where its sweet spot is.
Everyone gets me outta the hole but it doesn't start eating until the 2-3rd shift.

[pipeliner]

Yeah I didn't build a race or track car but Ive got a T-56 Magnum with 3.91 gears, sub frame connectors, 1 1/8 sway arm, adding a 7/8 rear probably, 1.03 bars, lower tubalars, upper SPC adjustables, Qa1 strut rods, 11/16 tie rods .It does have aluminum TF 240 heads and HSD intake which may have saved some weight lol. Also Vintage air and both front seats are powered lumbar so I don't actually know how much what I have added 

[Kern Dog]

   
I'm always interested in real (measured) 2nd-gen curb weights because they are all over the place.  There's about a 700-lb range just among the near-stock street cruisers & restomods.  That's not even counting gutted racecars with fiberglass & lexan. 

Mine is 3940.
440 based 495 with aluminum heads, intake and water pump housing. TKO 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, full interior with sound deadener.

[472 R/T SE]

Yeah I didn't build a race or track car but Ive got a T-56 Magnum with 3.91 gears, sub frame connectors, 1 1/8 sway arm, adding a 7/8 rear probably, 1.03 bars, lower tubalars, upper SPC adjustables, Qa1 strut rods, 11/16 tie rods .It does have aluminum TF 240 heads and HSD intake which may have saved some weight lol. Also Vintage air and both front seats are powered lumbar so I don't actually know how much what I have added 

Tbh, I never thought about weight savings during the build.  I just didn't want the doors sagging and not closing once I ran slicks.  The dyno torque #s to the wheels convinced me of that, lol.

I'm at the point where I need to sell it and build a base Charger.  For years I was into factory restorations but got tired of the know it alls who never seen the car in its original condition and mocked me for doing it wrong.
The cars too rare to do what I want.  One more option listed on tag would have make it a 2 tagger.

Im at a dilemna.  Put it back to original #'s or keep going...lol.

[472 R/T SE]

Then again, my cars close to #4500, lol.

That's a 2nd-gen? 

What are you carrying in that thing? 

My 70lb dog, 200 lb buddy,  maybe 600 in tools and luggage...yesterday on a set of Kansas state scales.

My previous 4500lb comment from before was prior to frame connectors, loop, CalTracs.  Like i.said, shes.a pig!