Frame-mount fuel pump:

[Captain D]

Anyone run the fuel pump mounted on the frame for EFI? If so, which brand do you use? MSD? Walbro? Holley? I have Fi-Tech 600hp throttle body. Thanks for any feedback...

[Mopar Nut]

Aeromotive

https://aeromotiveinc.com/product-category/fuel-pumps/in-line/

[Captain D]

Thank you for your response + link. However, it says 'in-tank use only.' I'm looking for electric fuel pump mounted on the frame. Thank you anyhow.

[INTMD8]

If you're planning to do this with a stock tank it will not work well/have starvation issues.

[INTMD8]

I read your other post, what efi tank do you currently have?

Most start off as a tanks inc which mounts the pump at the front of the tank yes but in it's own bucket, and also, it's at the lowest point at the tank. (so not sure what setup you would have that mounts the pump high in the tank??)

[Captain D]

Thanks man for the re:

The tank I purchased was:

https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=484/category_id=68/mode=prod/prd484.htm

Unless the shop made an error in some way (unsure how because it can only fit one way), I just recall them stating that the pump was seated towards the front of the tank and that the sending unit didn't reach deep enough into the bottom as much as he thought / would have liked. He's seen some where just more of the pump / sending unit are closer to the bottom of the tank that this set-up. Plus, the fuel pressure in the pump began to fail. For instance, if I began an incline, the car would stall out. I read online that their pumps (Fi-Tech, in general) were mediocre and only average. But, the shop did indicate that a standard factory tank (single hole drilled for ventilation line) could be used in conjunction with a frame-mount electric pump. Since you feel that the frame-mount pump couldn't be used w/ the factory tank, is there anything in particular that you would recommend to make that work, etc.? This name brand, seems to have decent reviews (not to say that I will use this pump, but the name brand seemed decent from what I've heard so far):

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpn-f30000271

Thanks again,

[INTMD8]

So you bought a stock replacement tank? What pump and sending unit works with that?

Their efi tank has a bucket the pump pulls fuel from.

EFI pump inside a stock type tank (or on the rail pulling from a stock sender) will always have starvation issues.


I would get the fuel injected tank from tanks inc (holley is the same), which is what I have.

It's not perfect for a drag car if running low fuel/hard launch it can still uncover the pickup but works great under most conditions.

[Captain D]

Typo (my fault - at work still). This is the tank I purchased:

https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=484/category_id=68/mode=prod/prd484.htm

The shop was just 'thinking outside of the box' when they mentioned this (and not that I am looking to do it necessarily), but if I were to keep this tank installed - the trunk-pan could be modified / cut to provide easy access to the pump whenever needing to change out. That would, in future sake, prevent from having to drop the tank simply to change out the pump. Interesting thought, but not quite ready to go that route just yet...

[INTMD8]

Ok that's the same one I have.

It has a bucket around the pump so not just a wide open tank. It has to be in the front as that's the deepest part of the tank.  

If the pump sock isn't touching the bottom of the tank it was an installation error.

You have to measure the tank depth and cut the fuel line from sender to pump to the correct length in order to achieve the same overall depth.

If cut short the pickup sock would be well above the bottom of the tank and cause the issues you describe.


As for using a stock tank with an inline pump, the shop is incorrect. Will not work as there is not enough baffling and the factory pickup will be uncovered.

Not a problem with a carburetor as you won't have a loss of fuel delivery until you empty the carb or float bowls.

It is a problem with efi however as any small drop in fuel pressure is an instantaneous lean condition.


As for cutting a hole in the floor, I don't see the need. The tank can be removed in ten minutes and shouldn't need constant servicing anyway.

[Captain D]

Thank you for the info - I will be sure to relay this info onto the shop and go from there. If I recall, there are two forms of pumps that Tanks, Inc. sells. I'd have to go back through my notes when I get home to see what those options are. But, if true, which of the two would be ideal? And, since the Fi-Tech pumps seem to have mixed reviews, are there any pumps with a different name-brand that would be worth going for instead, by chance? To get this right, I certainly don't mind paying the extra bucks for a quality pump...Thanks again for your time and info!

[INTMD8]

Your fuel pump may not have a problem at all if not at the right depth.

Not sure how much power your car makes but I have a new 255lph pump from my tanks inc setup (I replaced with a 520lph pump) and fuel line if you need to correct the depth.

You can have it if you need it.

[Captain D]

Thanks man for the offer as that was very kind of you - I can let you know and get back to you if cool (of course, I wouldn't feel right if I didn't give you anything for it)  .

But, you're referring to the pump sock and fuel line being at the correct depth, correct? As for the pump, it can only be mounted in one way and at one depth I would imagine. The only issue that I recall the shop having with the pump is that there was limited markings for how best it would read on the gauge. In other words, if mounted in one way, the gauge would read 'full.' If mounted in the other way, it would read 'empty.'

Just in case the shop said that they did all of what you described, I'm just thinking of ways that would help them w/ a process of elimination based on my limited knowledge on this topic. But, I'm willing to give the EFI Tanks, Inc. w/ the internal pump another shot. So, all of this info (or as much info as I can double-check the shop) is certainly fantastic. Thanks again!

[INTMD8]

Thanks man for the offer as that was very kind of you - I can let you know and get back to you if cool (of course, I wouldn't feel right if I didn't give you anything for it)  .

But, you're referring to the pump sock and fuel line being at the correct depth, correct? As for the pump, it can only be mounted in one way and at one depth I would imagine. Just in case the shop said that they did all of what you described, I'm just thinking of ways that would help them w/ a process of elimination based on my limited knowledge on this topic. But, I'm willing to give the EFI Tanks, Inc. w/ the internal pump another shot. So, all of this info (or as much info as I can double-check the shop) is certainly fantastic. Thanks again!

If you need it just send me an address and I'll get it to you, no worries.

And you imagine wrong.  In the instructions it explains that you need to measure tank depth and cut the fuel line (which sets overall depth of pump) to correct length so the pickup sock ends up at the bottom of the tank.  Just look at the tanks inc install thread stickied on this page-

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,131567.0.html


If your guy is saying the pump is high and doesn't go deep enough in the tank, the line wasn't cut to the right length in order to set the depth. 

That part of it is up to the installer to get correct.  Can't just make the thing short and say it's too short 

[Captain D]

Excellent info indeed. I'm definitely forwarding all of this info onto him to brush up on any gaps in his understanding, which I believe very well may have resulted in the premature burnout of the existing pump. The only issue that I recall the shop having with the pump at the time was them mentioning limited markings for how best it would read on the gauge. In other words, if mounted in one way, the gauge would read 'full.' If mounted in the other way, it would read 'empty.'

The more I'm learning about it, the more I'm leaning towards install error since there are many variables to consider. These units use relays, correct? And off question just so that I can learn more about it myself, say for example money wasn't an issue...which GPA Series pump is 'the' best worth running with for a street cruiser using the 600HP Fi-Tech, just out of curiosity:

https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=227/category_id=-1/mode=prod/prd227.htm

[INTMD8]

The fuel pump bracket is completely independent of the fuel level sender, has nothing to do with the pump depth.

I don't know how yours is wired. I used a relay and dedicated hot wire for mine.

The ideal fuel pump would come down to the horsepower/fuel demands of your engine.

[Captain D]

Certainly understandable. Basic info is: 69' Charger, 383BB, approx. 350HP with Fi-Tech 600HP unit, EFI tank installed (currently). I realize that its vague, but I'll look into the pumps more carefully as we re-do this project. Thank you again for your time and the many replies!

[Mopar Nut]

Thank you for your response + link. However, it says 'in-tank use only.' I'm looking for electric fuel pump mounted on the frame. Thank you anyhow.

Typo (my fault - always working). Here are the in-line pumps

https://aeromotiveinc.com/product-category/fuel-pumps/in-line/

Bouchillon Performance Engineering recommended them and said don't buy Holley because of the pump failures.

[Captain D]

I called Tanks, Inc. and they recommended that I run the GPA-5 with 3G gasket:

High-Flow Pump:
https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=605/category_id=61/mode=prod/prd605.htm

https://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=631/category_id=-1/mode=prod/prd631.htm

When crawling up underneath, I noticed a leaky hose fitting. I'm sure that didn't help w/ the fuel pressure at incline.

[AZMoparboy]

Hi Captain D. and all that have chimed in on this interesting problem.

I'm so frustrated for you. You want something nice for your car and the outcome is nothing but trouble. Your efi and tank should have worked out great. I had the same setup you have and when I sold the car I had 9000 thousand miles on it with no problems. Your setup should work perfectly. You deserve success, don't give up on the Fitech system and tank.

Good luck,
Steve, azmoparboy

[Captain D]

Hi Steve,

Thanks man for the reply & kind thoughts, my friend. Yeah, I told the ol' lady that I was getting burnt out with this car (the converted Crown Vics to look like a Charger are starting to look good, lol).

But, I gave the shop all of the amazing info from this thread (thank goodness for dodge charger.com & the good folks here). So, I'm willing to give it another shot. It bites that I sunk all that money into it initially, but round #2 may be better. I truly hope so...

Thank you again for all of the helpful info in this thread - you guys are the best!

[Captain D]

Quick update on this thread, and for those with a similar experience that I've had if it helps:

I called Summit and was informed that the unit below is a fuel command center / pump combo (no need for a mechanical pump mounted on the block) and that it's functional with any fuel tank, including EFI. Almost sounds 'too good to be true,' but found it interesting nonetheless:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpf-40004

It's rated up to 800HP with decent fuel pressure, etc. Anyone run with these units as an alternative, by chance? Because fuel pumps on classic rides 'may' not meet the high standards as compared to what our daily driver fuel pumps would be (to avoid all of the factory recalls and such in our daily drivers), and because they're not being lubricated as much as a daily driver would be, I'd like to perhaps have these parts external where I can easily access them without having to gut it like a fish to change out every few years = $$.

Somewhat less money:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-36032?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw9qOBhC-ARIsAG-rdn6Egypg7wLUZ3ANnDIkPY9JbhVtvMZEFIrD8I9ez4k9d2ov_zn8rf8aAnfVEALw_wcB

Thanks for looking and any feedback...

[Lennard]

Aeromotive is what I bought, plug and play.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EAp1UZZapm0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZ5jCpZpaQ

[metallicareload99]

Quick update on this thread, and for those with a similar experience that I've had if it helps:

I called Summit and was informed that the unit below is a fuel command center / pump combo (no need for a mechanical pump mounted on the block) and that it's functional with any fuel tank, including EFI. Almost sounds 'too good to be true,' but found it interesting nonetheless:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpf-40004

It's rated up to 800HP with decent fuel pressure, etc. Anyone run with these units as an alternative, by chance? Because fuel pumps on classic rides 'may' not meet the high standards as compared to what our daily driver fuel pumps would be (to avoid all of the factory recalls and such in our daily drivers), and because they're not being lubricated as much as a daily driver would be, I'd like to perhaps have these parts external where I can easily access them without having to gut it like a fish to change out every few years = $$.

Somewhat less money:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-36032?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw9qOBhC-ARIsAG-rdn6Egypg7wLUZ3ANnDIkPY9JbhVtvMZEFIrD8I9ez4k9d2ov_zn8rf8aAnfVEALw_wcB

Thanks for looking and any feedback...

Not sure if I'm following right, but you currently have the Tanks Inc efi tank and a GPA type pump setup that somebody assembled incorrectly? If so there "should've" been enough fuel line left over from the first install to redo the assembly with the pump down at the proper height. Assuming whoever put it together didn't throw it out?

I've put 25,000+ miles on the same setup so far. I did change the pump once at around 5,000 miles because I was running the pump in PWM mode, which supposedly will damage it, but the pump was still running fine with no issues. I recall making a new pump to hanger line out of what was left over from the first install

[Captain D]

I called Tanks, Inc. & spoke with a rep named Josh - very knowledgeable. It is of his opinion that:

The issue isn't the pump (very rarely do they ever go out / they're used in daily driver vehicles for that level of quality, according to him). But, to check the 'fuel pressure regulator,' which deals with the diaphragm. A much cheaper fix & a good place to start with at least before rerouting the entire fuel system...

Btw, being two years ago, the leftover fuel line is long gone. Overall, good YouTube videos - very interesting.