Searching for a Wing car

[Livinglife442]

Jim- what city and state are located in?

[426HemiChick]

Wow.  Very nice car.  As stated above, there's nothing wrong with a tribute car.  For me, it has to be real.   If I had a tribute car, I would feel like I'm lying to myself.  I completely understand there's real freedom in a clone car.  It can be driven and thoroughly abused with zero guilt.  That's cool.  I'm going to DIE with the car I choose i it's gotta be real.  Let's call it a retirement gift to myself.  My wife will want to auction off a real car.    Just an FYI, she WILL have an auction when I go.  Make sure you all get to it.   There's gonna be some cool stuff there!!   

Hi Jim,                   14 October 2021

Think we know what you are feeling. We sold our Hemi Daytona last year to a member of this site who is a real collector and someone we trusted to give our Daytona a loving home. Bob Jennings surpassed our expectations; he is the perfect new parent for his Rare Hemi Daytona, for which we are very grateful.

We were the second owners and had it 48 years. Had we kept it we would never have put it back on the highway.

If we decide we want another, it will be a clone. There are too many low IQ distracted drivers on the highways these days to risk having a genuine article totaled by some idiot; just our opinion. Whoever owns one can do what they want, it's their Unalienable right . . . . at least for the moment.

We still have our 68 Hemi RR and 69 440-6 SB, both are extremely low mileage, 4405 and 2681 respectively, which we have owned since they were new. These cars are in Phoenix in Dena's shop. We have stated our plans for our Mopar's in our thread on this site.

We wish you luck in finding exactly what you are looking for in the way of a real Daytona. Do it before you get to be my age.

Best Always

Christine, for the 426 Hemi Chicks

[Pinballjim]

LL442 - I am from SE Pa. 

Hemi Chick - Thanks for the words of encouragement.  They help keep me motivated when others say I'll fail.   Of the Wing cars, I don't think a Daytona is is in the budget.  They are simply too valuable.  I believe a S-Bird is within reach.  It won't be a 6bbl 4 speed which is OK with me.  It won't be a low mileage completely original car which is OK with me too (although engine/trans/rear need to be original).  I've save a pretty good sized pile of cash (ACTUAL cash, not some silly wire transfer or a bank check).  As a result, I believe I will be able to find a 440-4/automatic.  This will be the last old car I purchase.   Over the past 40+years, I've been able to put some cool cars (across several makes and models) in the garage.  Street rods, Hot rods, trucks, classics, muscle cars, bikes, even some 80's and 90's cars!!  I've always wanted a wing car.   I feel as though if I don't reach for one, I'll regret it forever.         

I met Bob Jennings at Carlisle this year.  We had a neat conversation about his Youtube Videos.  Very interesting guy.   I'm jealous (in a good way)!!

I appreciate the interaction on this forum.  I look forward to any tips or leads anyone might have.  You folks are ALLRIGHT !!

[Wingnut426]

White 440 4-speed Superbird just listed on Moparts B-body cars for sale. $175K.  WINGNUT

[Pinballjim]

White 440 4-speed Superbird just listed on Moparts B-body cars for sale. $175K.  WINGNUT

Thanks!!!   I'll look into that one.   It's a bit more than I can justify (and probably too nice) but I'm going to try!

Thanks!!!!

[Repsol17]

My birds not a matching numbers car. I've decided to sell it. Just haven't had the time to list it. It's the bird known as Black Ice. 440, 4 speed, dana, black buckets, non console. Has a six barrel setup and a custom air grabber hood. Was originally yellow. Was painted black in the late 80's or early 90's. Great driving car. Was in west Texas and LA most of its life. Super solid car. I'm asking 105K. Fun car to drive. I'm 65 now and need to finish up a couple of other cars while my health is still good. The fender tag and body numbers all match. I'm the third registered owner. Jim Radke had it for a while in the mid 80's. If you guys know of anyone I can send some detailed pics. I can be reached at hotrodcuda98@hotmail.com. Larry Roper

Sold my bird on 10/15/21. Going to new home.

Is this a congrats to Pinballjim ?   

[Pinballjim]

My birds not a matching numbers car. I've decided to sell it. Just haven't had the time to list it. It's the bird known as Black Ice. 440, 4 speed, dana, black buckets, non console. Has a six barrel setup and a custom air grabber hood. Was originally yellow. Was painted black in the late 80's or early 90's. Great driving car. Was in west Texas and LA most of its life. Super solid car. I'm asking 105K. Fun car to drive. I'm 65 now and need to finish up a couple of other cars while my health is still good. The fender tag and body numbers all match. I'm the third registered owner. Jim Radke had it for a while in the mid 80's. If you guys know of anyone I can send some detailed pics. I can be reached at hotrodcuda98@hotmail.com. Larry Roper

Sold my bird on 10/15/21. Going to new home.

Is this a congrats to Pinballjim ?   

Ha.  Not yet.   I'll find one!!!!

[426HemiChick]

Wow.  Very nice car.  As stated above, there's nothing wrong with a tribute car.  For me, it has to be real.   If I had a tribute car, I would feel like I'm lying to myself.  I completely understand there's real freedom in a clone car.  It can be driven and thoroughly abused with zero guilt.  That's cool.  I'm going to DIE with the car I choose i it's gotta be real.  Let's call it a retirement gift to myself.  My wife will want to auction off a real car.    Just an FYI, she WILL have an auction when I go.  Make sure you all get to it.   There's gonna be some cool stuff there!!   

Hi Jim,                  17 October 2021

Why not sell all that cool stuff now rather than burdening your wife with a sale, which may not bring as much as it would if sold now. Estate Sales are like fire sales, not always producing big bucks for the seller. Also, there's the sales commission she won't get.

Sell now while the market is good. Who knows what it will be like next year. Joe's promised tax hikes sure won't help you or her.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks

[Pinballjim]

Wow.  Very nice car.  As stated above, there's nothing wrong with a tribute car.  For me, it has to be real.   If I had a tribute car, I would feel like I'm lying to myself.  I completely understand there's real freedom in a clone car.  It can be driven and thoroughly abused with zero guilt.  That's cool.  I'm going to DIE with the car I choose i it's gotta be real.  Let's call it a retirement gift to myself.  My wife will want to auction off a real car.    Just an FYI, she WILL have an auction when I go.  Make sure you all get to it.   There's gonna be some cool stuff there!!   

Hi Jim,                  17 October 2021

Why not sell all that cool stuff now rather than burdening your wife with a sale, which may not bring as much as it would if sold now. Estate Sales are like fire sales, not always producing big bucks for the seller. Also, there's the sales commission she won't get.

Sell now while the market is good. Who knows what it will be like next year. Joe's promised tax hikes sure won't help you or her.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks

In theory, that's a great plan.   Here's the problem.   I have a hard time letting go.   I enjoy my 'stuff'.  Once I get my bird, I will sell some cars and the bikes.   It's not just the cars.  It's coin op machines (juke boxes and pinballs), bumper cars, old signs....   Hell, I recently bought a WHALE BOAT from an amusement park.  They call out to me.   I'm not a hoarder.   I'm a COLLECTOR.   What's the difference?   It's all in how it's displayed!!       

[aerolith]

Nice words 'Pinball JIM'.

I feel sorry for my wife too, she says I'm a hoarder and she is definitely right!

Yes I too would like a mini museum, for myself mainly and for the benefit of others (who are genuinely interested).
Its a very different world living in the UK with 'electric looming' for us (eco-unfriendly) Mopar lovers...

Many wives have threatened the 'auction' or worse the 'scrapheap' for our 'manly treasures' on our demise ...

For you it seems 'the world is your oyster' for some of us its just burnt-out 'past memories'...

[Pinballjim]

Nice words 'Pinball JIM'.

I feel sorry for my wife too, she says I'm a hoarder and she is definitely right!

Yes I too would like a mini museum, for myself mainly and for the benefit of others (who are genuinely interested).
Its a very different world living in the UK with 'electric looming' for us (eco-unfriendly) Mopar lovers...

Many wives have threatened the 'auction' or worse the 'scrapheap' for our 'manly treasures' on our demise ...

For you it seems 'the world is your oyster' for some of us its just burnt-out 'past memories'...

The world is SURELY not my oyster.   I don't even like seafood!! 

I've just always been a car nerd. When my friends were leasing fancy new cars, I was driving a 20 year old pickup truck.   They were/are paying $7--/month for a lease and I'm saving for a Bird.  I'm at the point where I need to try to get one.  As stated above, If I don't try, I'll regret it later.  I'm sure car guys understand.     

As for the Auction or Scrap heap, it won't matter to me.  I'll be dead.  My wife is a pretty smart cookie.  When I check out, she will know how make this stuff go away.....  She might keep some of it but what's she gonna do with bumper cars?   It simply won't matter!!  I hope she keeps the Superbird and drives it to my funeral!!     

[cudavic]

Something every car collector should take into consideration is the tax implications on profits from a sale vs little or no tax implication on gains from an estate sale.

I am not a tax expert however I do know that if you sell a collector car and you make money on the sale you are required to pay anywhere between 20% to 28% on any profits.
However if you die and your estate / wife inherits your car and or car collection and decides to sell it at or shortly after your death the tax liability will be little or next to nothing.

Meaning if you sell a car for $100,000 that you have owned for lets say 20 years and you only have $50,000 in total into it (purchase price, any restoration costs, maintenance, insurance, ect..)
You will owe capital gains tax on the $50,000 profit, so you are obligated by law to pay the IRS anywhere between $10,000 to $14,000 in tax.

If you die and your wife / estate sells that same car for $100,000 at the time of your death they are not obligated to pay any capital gain tax as that was the current market value.
This is true as long as your estate is not in the multi millions (I believe approximately $5 million dollars).

Again I am not a tax expert, and I am trying to keep my explanation very basic and simple to understand.
However anyone that has a significant amount of money to gain from the sale of a car or entire collection should look into the tax implications of any sale vs leaving it to your heirs.

Sincerely Vic

[RSI700VIPER]

Vic - Good to know.  Thanks.

[aerolith]

Hmmm, Death and Taxes, where have I heard that before...

Real Mopar lovers don't care about the taxation and the cost of fuel, but the Wingcar prices are eyewatering these days!

Is it better to have a few daily driver Mopars, or put all ones eggs into a Wingcar?

I have worked on many Wingcars for friends (and err customers), but never owned one myself.
Always a day late or a dollar short, maybe $100,000 short now!

I had my chances to find and buy one, when they was a 'Novelty' car and to some an 'eyesore'...

But the time has to be right and the finances in place, when investing in such a BIG spend.

The next problem is finding the right car at the right price...

You can only buy, what is for sale, or go to every meeting of Wingcars and 'put yourself about'.
Some folks will only sell to GENUINE buyers and not the dreaded FLIPPER...



Be not afraid of Wingcars, some are born with Wingcar, some achieve Wingcar, others have Wingcar, THRUST UPON THEM...

Can't do the first two so any Wingcar thrusters are welcome to thrust upon me...

[Pinballjim]

Hmmm, Death and Taxes, where have I heard that before...

Real Mopar lovers don't care about the taxation and the cost of fuel, but the Wingcar prices are eyewatering these days!

Is it better to have a few daily driver Mopars, or put all ones eggs into a Wingcar?

I have worked on many Wingcars for friends (and err customers), but never owned one myself.
Always a day late or a dollar short, maybe $100,000 short now!

I had my chances to find and buy one, when they was a 'Novelty' car and to some an 'eyesore'...

But the time has to be right and the finances in place, when investing in such a BIG spend.

The next problem is finding the right car at the right price...

You can only buy, what is for sale, or go to every meeting of Wingcars and 'put yourself about'.
Some folks will only sell to GENUINE buyers and not the dreaded FLIPPER...



Be not afraid of Wingcars, some are born with Wingcar, some achieve Wingcar, others have Wingcar, THRUST UPON THEM...

Can't do the first two so any Wingcar thrusters are welcome to thrust upon me...

Very well put.     That's the whole point of this post.   I'm putting it out there.    Flippers REALLY annoy me.   To them, it's all about the almighty dollar.   I believe collectors (REAL collectors) are more focused on the cars, the history and the stories behind them.....   At least that's how I see it.....   My search will continue until I'm successful.   

[426HemiChick]

Something every car collector should take into consideration is the tax implications on profits from a sale vs little or no tax implication on gains from an estate sale.

I am not a tax expert however I do know that if you sell a collector car and you make money on the sale you are required to pay anywhere between 20% to 28% on any profits.
However if you die and your estate / wife inherits your car and or car collection and decides to sell it at or shortly after your death the tax liability will be little or next to nothing.

Meaning if you sell a car for $100,000 that you have owned for lets say 20 years and you only have $50,000 in total into it (purchase price, any restoration costs, maintenance, insurance, ect..)
You will owe capital gains tax on the $50,000 profit, so you are obligated by law to pay the IRS anywhere between $10,000 to $14,000 in tax.

If you die and your wife / estate sells that same car for $100,000 at the time of your death they are not obligated to pay any capital gain tax as that was the current market value.
This is true as long as your estate is not in the multi millions (I believe approximately $5 million dollars).

Again I am not a tax expert, and I am trying to keep my explanation very basic and simple to understand.
However anyone that has a significant amount of money to gain from the sale of a car or entire collection should look into the tax implications of any sale vs leaving it to your heirs.

Sincerely Vic

Hi Vic,                    21 October 2021

Think you are spot on. Problem we see is multi faceted: Today's tax rate; next year's rates; IRS Rules; market volatility.

I'd want to sell now while the tax rates and rules are known quantities. The current regime has mentioned higher rates are coming, and estates are one of their targets.

We are in for a run of uncertainty, the market for our cars could go through the roof, they could remain static or sink, which they have done in the past. We need to face reality, stocks have been going up while the economy is taking a hit.

Also, a lot depends upon what you want or need to do. If'n you're close to my age, 81, how much time have I remaining? Not sure I want to know, just going to plan for 24 more. At some point in time it may be advisable to start selling things off or giving stuff away. Quite frankly, IMO I should have started downsizing 11 Years ago. Can't go back so we'll just play it by ear.

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks

[Redbird]

No one wants to or needs to pay more taxes than they truly owe.

I believe for the average person selling a car, going to knowledgeable sources, such as a CPA, is a wise move. Informing your self first, suggestion read the Legal Files in Sports Car Market Magazine is probably a good move. FWIW I do not believe one can deduct insurance, storage, or maintenance as part of your basis cost. But check with your tax person, I am not a tax expert.

Selling a wing car, and the associated tax liability, is minor in comparison to the issues many people have in selling a long term ownership of a home on either coast. Even if the ownership is a Hemi Daytona.

Someone with a real problem is someone who put $ 750 K in a house, land, or investment and today it is only worth $ 200 K.

Someone setting up for future needs of a special needs child really needs help.

Consider the circumstances of others.

Selling a car one made money on, there are a lot worse problems in life to worry or complain about.

[aerolith]

I don't know much about taxation in the USA on Collector cars, but.

Most countries in the World like to tax PROFITS!

If you buy a car at $100,000, drive it for a while and sell it for the same, surely you haven't made any profit?

As far as I know we don't have that system on cars, but everything else seems to get taxed...

Death and taxes, always a worry, but not when you is DEAD!

Money is a problem if you have loads of it, or NONE of it.
Me I'm the latter...

[426HemiChick]

I don't know much about taxation in the USA on Collector cars, but.

Most countries in the World like to tax PROFITS!

If you buy a car at $100,000, drive it for a while and sell it for the same, surely you haven't made any profit?

As far as I know we don't have that system on cars, but everything else seems to get taxed...

Death and taxes, always a worry, but not when you is DEAD!

Money is a problem if you have loads of it, or NONE of it.
Me I'm the latter...

Hi aerolith,                 21  October 2021

What you say is true, unless the seller is a US veteran and in the VA System; anything you sell, regardless of what you paid for it, is considered Income. We had a property here in Texas that turned into a money pit and decided to get rid of it. Sold it for very little profit. The VA considered every penny that the buyer paid was income to us, including the taxes and sales commission, which we never saw.

When I talked to the VA, they said anything a veteran in their system sells, the proceeds are considered income regardless of when you bought or sold it. They don't care what you paid for it, it's the total amount paid by the buyer that is considered INCOME.

Best way to handle this is to accept cash only and not deposit it in a bank. A Piggy-Bank is OK, Ms. Piggy won't Squeal on you. Large amounts of cash, you are on your own. Eat out a lot and pay in Cash.

Best Always

Christine for the 426 Hemi Chicks

[Impkidd]

Aww, missed out on Hotrod98's Black Ice 'bird within hours. That would have been a fun car to show off with its rockin' history of the 80's.

[cdr]

Aww, missed out on Hotrod98's Black Ice 'bird within hours. That would have been a fun car to show off with its rockin' history of the 80's.

did not know it was for sale 

[70 sublime]

Aww, missed out on Hotrod98's Black Ice 'bird within hours. That would have been a fun car to show off with its rockin' history of the 80's.

did not know it was for sale 

He said it was in his post in this thread

My birds not a matching numbers car. I've decided to sell it. Just haven't had the time to list it. It's the bird known as Black Ice. 440, 4 speed, dana, black buckets, non console. Has a six barrel setup and a custom air grabber hood. Was originally yellow. Was painted black in the late 80's or early 90's. Great driving car. Was in west Texas and LA most of its life. Super solid car. I'm asking 105K. Fun car to drive. I'm 65 now and need to finish up a couple of other cars while my health is still good. The fender tag and body numbers all match. I'm the third registered owner. Jim Radke had it for a while in the mid 80's. If you guys know of anyone I can send some detailed pics. I can be reached at hotrodcuda98@hotmail.com. Larry Roper

Sold my bird on 10/15/21. Going to new home.

[NHCharger]

how much did this one sell for

Think he paid 11k, plus shipping. Has since bought the rear half of a 69 Charger for a "starting point" for the restoration.

[Pinballjim]

Evening folks!!  Just an update on my search.  So far, Zilch. Zip. Nada.  I have to laugh about it because it shouldn't take this much effort to spend crazy money on a car and yet, here we are.  I truly appreciate all the encouragement I've received from several of you on this forum.  Please let me know if you hear of anything!!  I'm GOING to get one of these cars!!!!!

[1970Moparmann]

 http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,140606.0/topicseen.html