Upcoming race and uploading audio files

[taxspeaker]

My son, who owns a Tesla Model 3, says he can beat my white Alaska Highway Superbird in a 500 mile Cannonball Run style race. His Tesla will need 1 recharge, I will need 5 gallons plus 1 fillup. We are going to call the race the Muscle vs. Electric race or something like that and it will be from our shop to St Louis and back (right at 500 miles). I know exactly what my mileage is and have a few tricks up my sleeve, and I am sure he will too. The only rule-no breaking traffic laws or exceeding speed limit by more than 5mph. The wager has not yet been determined, but he is going to record it-we are looking at the first week of August. Any tips beyond the obvious considered. At 70 mph the Bird gets right at 12.7 mpg, but there are about 30 miles of big hills to go through. I am willing to push it to the last ounce of gas.

The other thing is a question for the moderators. We just located 40+ audio recordings I made during the Alaska Highway trip with this Bird a few years ago-is there a way to upload them here or do only pictures work. I don't think there is any cussing on them, but some interesting interactions with the gravel, wild animals, and a customs officer. Some are interesting, some are not, but they are all short 3-5 minute recordings and observations.

[hemigeno]

The other thing is a question for the moderators. We just located 40+ audio recordings I made during the Alaska Highway trip with this Bird a few years ago-is there a way to upload them here or do only pictures work. I don't think there is any cussing on them, but some interesting interactions with the gravel, wild animals, and a customs officer. Some are interesting, some are not, but they are all short 3-5 minute recordings and observations.

I'm gonna guess that it cannot be uploaded directly to the site as an attachment, both due to file size (400KB max) and the type of file itself. 

Under Attach:, the forum's software states:  "Allowed file types: jpg, jpeg, gif, png, pdf"


As long as it's allowed by a host website, you can probably embed a link to wherever you can upload the files.

[moparstuart]

great idea  ,  sound like good fun   

[cdr]

VERY cool, sounds like a good time. turn your idle mixture screws in about 1/8 to 1/4 turn, should pick up the mileage a little

[billssuperbird]

 

[cudavic]

Barring anything radical like tossing in a 8 3/4" center ham with 2.93:1 gears in your bird, I would just inflate all of the tires to 35 psi for the best rolling resistance possible.

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

Sneakily put a bigger tank in it.
The harder he pushes the Tesla... the range disappears.
Go when it's hot... the air conditioning will also kill the Tesla's range.

I've always wondered if I'm the only one with a Six Pack that drove the Alaska Highway?
Here's what I wrote to Mopar Muscle magazine in response to your trip to Alaska. And they did this...

[Lifsgrt]

I suggest a good tune. Good plugs and wires, proper ignition timing and jetting should do better than that for mileage if you are careful. Agree with above about rear gears.

[TheAutoArchaeologist]

If you have the ability and time, do a belly pan under the engine, it helps clean up the air under the car, give you a little bit more mpg

[armor64]

also be sure to PIT maneuver the Tesla every chance you get, that will soak up valuable time as well... but seriously, this sounds like a great friendly race, hope all goes well for both of you.

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

Seriously, this shouldn't be a problem at all.
The fastest you can fully charge a low battery Tesla on average is over 2 hours depending on the charger. Most times it's way longer.
I think you can fill your tank way faster than in 2 hours.
Unless you are handicapping the Superbird for the time charging the Tesla?  

It's hard to beat an internal combustion engine these days.
They are extremely efficient.
They last forever with minimal maintenance. They can produce massive horsepower, and still get decent mileage.
And they now put out minimal pollutants.
Their "Carbon Footprint" is less deadly than producing lithium batteries. And recycling engines is easier than batteries.
They're way cheaper to produce. And those batteries aren't real light.
Electric cars aren't there yet. Maybe someday.
Of course, they will be forced upon us for our own good.

[cudavic]

Seriously, this shouldn't be a problem at all.
The fastest you can fully charge a low battery Tesla on average is over 2 hours depending on the charger. Most times it's way longer.
I think you can fill your tank way faster than in 2 hours.
Unless you are handicapping the Superbird for the time charging the Tesla?  

It's hard to beat an internal combustion engine these days.
They are extremely efficient.
They last forever with minimal maintenance. They can produce massive horsepower, and still get decent mileage.
And they now put out minimal pollutants.
Their "Carbon Footprint" is less deadly than producing lithium batteries. And recycling engines is easier than batteries.
They're way cheaper to produce. And those batteries aren't real light.
Electric cars aren't there yet. Maybe someday.
Of course, they will be forced upon us for our own good.

While I am not a big fan of electric vehicles I will point out that some of what you wrote is incorrect.

Tesla model 3 charging times can be under 1 hour if you charge the vehicle using a supercharging station.
This is supposed to be a race so I can assure you his son has already located a supercharging station along the way.

Even modern gasoline powered internal combustion engines are extremely inefficient.
Typically two thirds of the energy is lost and only one third of the energy is utilized.

An internal combustion engine requires more money to maintain as opposed to an electric motor.
An electric motor has one rotating assembly vs an engine that has many rotating and reciprocating parts.

A Tesla model 3 will pretty much destroy 90% or more of any street legal internal combustion vehicle in a drag race.

I certainly agree with you on the lithium mining aspects and the damage that it creates which is often overlooked.
As well as the cost and weight of batteries and the fire hazards they pose.
It takes hours and thousands of gallons of water to extinguish an electrical car fire and there is not much left of the car once the fire has been extinguished.

Again I am not a fan of electric cars however they do have advantages and disadvantages when compared to internal combustion vehicles.

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

Seriously, this shouldn't be a problem at all.
The fastest you can fully charge a low battery Tesla on average is over 2 hours depending on the charger. Most times it's way longer.
I think you can fill your tank way faster than in 2 hours.
Unless you are handicapping the Superbird for the time charging the Tesla?  

It's hard to beat an internal combustion engine these days.
They are extremely efficient.
They last forever with minimal maintenance. They can produce massive horsepower, and still get decent mileage.
And they now put out minimal pollutants.
Their "Carbon Footprint" is less deadly than producing lithium batteries. And recycling engines is easier than batteries.
They're way cheaper to produce. And those batteries aren't real light.
Electric cars aren't there yet. Maybe someday.
Of course, they will be forced upon us for our own good.

While I am not a big fan of electric vehicles I will point out that some of what you wrote is incorrect.

Tesla model 3 charging times can be under 1 hour if you charge the vehicle using a supercharging station.
This is supposed to be a race so I can assure you his son has already located a supercharging station along the way.

Even modern gasoline powered internal combustion engines are extremely inefficient.
Typically two thirds of the energy is lost and only one third of the energy is utilized.

An internal combustion engine requires more money to maintain as opposed to an electric motor.
An electric motor has one rotating assembly vs an engine that has many rotating and reciprocating parts.

A Tesla model 3 will pretty much destroy 90% or more of any street legal internal combustion vehicle in a drag race.

I certainly agree with you on the lithium mining aspects and the damage that it creates which is often overlooked.
As well as the cost and weight of batteries and the fire hazards they pose.
It takes hours and thousands of gallons of water to extinguish an electrical car fire and there is not much left of the car once the fire has been extinguished.

Again I am not a fan of electric cars however they do have advantages and disadvantages when compared to internal combustion vehicles.

Sure electric motors have their advantages. But for the time being... their disadvantages are more than the pluses.
One hour charging time IF there's a "supercharging station" along the way. I'm sure they're available in fairly larger cities. Where I like to go, there's no charging stations. I'm really curious about this...  do you have to pay when you use those "public" charging stations? Or are they subsidized by us? Like the purchasing of those expensive electric vehicles? Even at under a hour, our friend with the Superbird will be on his way in less than 10 minutes. Also, I hope it isn't hot enough where his son needs to run the air. The battery when running air conditioning on Tesla's will destroy his "efficient" use big time. No contest.

Yep. Modern internal combustion engines aren't the most efficient engines around. Compared to what they were 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 years ago... they are far superior. Take my '74 Power Wagon for example. It was allowed (when it was under the California smog laws... now exempt.) 850 ppm of hydrocarbons at idle... essentially unburned fuel. Our 2017 5.7 Dodge Durango is allowed somewhere around 20 ppm. AND I can drive our Durango ALL DAY LONG without stopping for fuel or a plug in. It's really hard to beat that. Ya think? 
Yep. Those new engines are way more efficient that the old ones. BUT you can build an old one pretty similar to a new one these days. I have in my '74 Power Wagon a stroked 440 with a set of Indy aluminum heads. "Reverse dome" pistons. A hydraulic roller cam. A finely tuned Six Pack. And you know what? It has over twice, probably closer to twice .5, the horsepower than the modern trucks running around now. And it pretty much gets the same gas mileage. If I keep my foot out of it. It will destroy modern pick ups. https://www.ramchargercentral.com/threads/my-74-power-wagon-i-ordered-from-dodge-on-8-73.162259/
More to maintain? You mentioned the batteries. Have you priced a set of batteries for a Tesla lately? I'll guarantee an "old fashioned" fuel burning engine will out last a set of batteries in any electric car. Not to mention what are you going to do with those old batteries?
Drag race? Yes electric engines can perform... about 3-4 passes at full throttle before the need to go on a charger for a little less than an hour...  if the track has a "super charger". If just a 110 plug... maybe 6-8 hours. How are you getting home after that race?
I'm fine with people who want to throw their money at an electric car. The tech isn't there yet with electric cars. No matter how much the government says we need to buy one now.
Remember the mid to late 70's into the early 80's, when they legislated the new smog laws. And the vehicles that were being produced during that time. They were crap! Horrible gas mileage along with horrible performance. It took over 20 years for the manufactures to get things working right. They didn't have the technology back then... and they certainly don't have it quite yet now.
No thanks... no contest.

[426HemiChick]

Hi Folks,             19 JUly 2021

Ah yes, the sound of an electric motor: Hmmmm!

The sound of a real Elephant Motor: If you've been fortunate enough to own and/or drive one, there's no contest; the 426 Hemi wins hands down.

Not much is said about the fires, battery disposal, cost to replace, etc. If I'm not mistaken, the lithium batteries are made in china; the pollution from the lithium mining and manufacturing process, not much said on that front. Huge government subsidies rarely mentioned. Inconvenient truth.

Long live the gasoline engine. Hope it outlasts us all . . . . . by many years.

Next will be the tyre; it's made from "oral/earl." Lithium tyres anyone?

For us, it'll be the gas engine until ....

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks

[cudavic]

Again, I am not a big fan nor do I really care for electric vehicles so I do not have a dog in this fight so to say.

However you made some statements that are not correct.

You wrote:

"The fastest you can fully charge a low battery Tesla on average is over 2 hours depending on the charger."
That is simply not correct as you can fully charge a battery in less than an hour.

"It's hard to beat an internal combustion engine these days. They are extremely efficient."
This is also not correct, as even todays most modern and efficient engine they are only about 20% to 35% efficient, 65% to 80% of the energy used is lost to heat and friction.
As a matter of fact most of the increases in vehicle mileage as of late has to due with multiple, multiple, multiple, speed transmissions, 6, 7, 8, and 9 speed automatic transmissions.

My 2016 Ford F150 with a 5.0 liter V-8 gets 18.5 MPG on average, it has a 6 speed transmission.
At 75 MPH the engine turns around 2,100 RPM's. I would guess taxspeakers Bird is going to be turning around 3,200 RPM's at 75MPH with 3.55:1 rear gears in it.
A 440CI or 7.3 liter engine is going to consume 25% to 30% more gas just due to the difference in displacement and RPM's when going 75 MPH.
So the increase in gasoline mileage on my truck is mainly due from smaller displacement as well as lower RPM's.

As far as the batteries themselves.
I am not a big fan of them, they are very destructive to the environment to get the necessary components to build them.
They are heavy, expensive and IMO a long term environmental hazard in the making.
Despite this however they are supposed to have a minimum lifespan of 1,500 charge cycles which should translate to roughly 300,000 miles.
There are not many gasoline engines that will make it 300,000 miles even when properly maintained.

I love muscle cars and own several of them and I do not own, nor plan to own, an electric vehicle any time soon.
However they do meet the needs and desires of many families and or people.

Getting back to the race I do believe if there is no compensation for charging time the Superbird will win hands down.

[taxspeaker]

Thanks all. Tips taken:

1. Hot day-excellent. He will run the a/c guaranteed. I will just sweat.
2. Tune up done, tires at 35-I may push a bit higher to 38 or so-it's a 1 time thing, I like the lean air/fuel idea too.
3. I "might" be able to coax 250 miles out of a 20 gallon tank or perhaps a quick 2.5-gallon top off each way from the trunk!
4. I am sure he will figure out some tricks so I've got 1 or 2 as well-there is an old 2-barrel carb & manifold in the garage somewhere with nothing to do. I also could hide something in the back seat plugged into the car drawing amp's silently!

[cudavic]

Thanks all. Tips taken:

1. Hot day-excellent. He will run the a/c guaranteed. I will just sweat.
2. Tune up done, tires at 35-I may push a bit higher to 38 or so-it's a 1 time thing, I like the lean air/fuel idea too.
3. I "might" be able to coax 250 miles out of a 20 gallon tank or perhaps a quick 2.5-gallon top off each way from the trunk!
4. I am sure he will figure out some tricks so I've got 1 or 2 as well-there is an old 2-barrel carb & manifold in the garage somewhere with nothing to do. I also could hide something in the back seat plugged into the car drawing amp's silently!

If you want a definite advantage, you could buy a cheap 22 gallon fuel cell from Summit racing and put it in the trunk and transfer fuel with an electric fuel pump as needed during the trip.

$109.99 no fuel stops = the best elapse time possible without breaking the speed limit by more than 5 to 10 MPH.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rjs-3011801

[held1823]

modifying either car violates the spirit of the wager, but age and cunning will always outsmart youthful exuberance

all you need is a few gas cans in the trunk. you can dump them in at any point on the way; stuck in construction, pee stop, or whatever. take more than you think you need, to err on the side of caution

road construction will be ryan's undoing if he runs the a/c while sitting in traffic. you can add gas then, but he can't plug in to an outlet

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

So, I parked next to a charging station today doing a small job in Palm Desert.
Evidently, there is no charge for plugging in your car. Isn't that just dandy. Free electricity.

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

Again, I am not a big fan nor do I really care for electric vehicles so I do not have a dog in this fight so to say.

However you made some statements that are not correct.

You wrote:

"The fastest you can fully charge a low battery Tesla on average is over 2 hours depending on the charger."
That is simply not correct as you can fully charge a battery in less than an hour.

"It's hard to beat an internal combustion engine these days. They are extremely efficient."
This is also not correct, as even todays most modern and efficient engine they are only about 20% to 35% efficient, 65% to 80% of the energy used is lost to heat and friction.
As a matter of fact most of the increases in vehicle mileage as of late has to due with multiple, multiple, multiple, speed transmissions, 6, 7, 8, and 9 speed automatic transmissions.

My 2016 Ford F150 with a 5.0 liter V-8 gets 18.5 MPG on average, it has a 6 speed transmission.
At 75 MPH the engine turns around 2,100 RPM's. I would guess taxspeakers Bird is going to be turning around 3,200 RPM's at 75MPH with 3.55:1 rear gears in it.
A 440CI or 7.3 liter engine is going to consume 25% to 30% more gas just due to the difference in displacement and RPM's when going 75 MPH.
So the increase in gasoline mileage on my truck is mainly due from smaller displacement as well as lower RPM's.

As far as the batteries themselves.
I am not a big fan of them, they are very destructive to the environment to get the necessary components to build them.
They are heavy, expensive and IMO a long term environmental hazard in the making.
Despite this however they are supposed to have a minimum lifespan of 1,500 charge cycles which should translate to roughly 300,000 miles.
There are not many gasoline engines that will make it 300,000 miles even when properly maintained.

I love muscle cars and own several of them and I do not own, nor plan to own, an electric vehicle any time soon.
However they do meet the needs and desires of many families and or people.

Getting back to the race I do believe if there is no compensation for charging time the Superbird will win hands down.

Dude. I already corrected myself on the charging time. I get it. BUT, if you don't have access to a "Super Charger"... your wait time will be WAY more significant. Which might be safer anyways.
Electric cars are not practical at this time. Give them another 15- 20 years. Maybe then. The batteries aren't right yet.
My wife and I drove from California to Chicago on Route 66 two summers ago in our Durango R/T. Again... we drove ALL DAY LONG on one tank of gas. AND we ran the air ALL DAY LONG. Not going to happen even in the most expensive Tesla. I love our inefficient, 5.7 little Hemi that drops down to 4 cylinders. And gets 24- 26 mpg's cruising down the road. And it was way cheaper than those Tesla's. And we didn't get a socialist government rebate for buying it.


I would seriously question the battery lifespan on any electric car. There's a lot of hyperbole out there put out by those people pushing the electric car.
Here's a blip from an article in Car and Driver...
Battery Life Expectancy
Every battery in an electric car sold in the U.S. comes with a warranty that lasts for a minimum of eight years or up to 100,000 miles, says CarFax. For example, Kia offers a battery pack warranty for 10 years or 100,000 miles, while Hyundai provides a lifetime coverage of its electric cars' batteries.
This standard warranty is excellent, but remember to take a look at the fine print. Some manufacturers only cover the battery if it completely dies and cannot hold a charge, which does not happen often. Brands like BMW, Chevrolet, Tesla, Volkswagen, and Nissan will cover a battery pack if its capacity drops to a certain percentage, usually 60 to 70 percent.
One major point to remember about a car's expected battery is that heat and lithium-ion do not pair well together. Cars that are located in hotter climates will typically experience a faster battery depletion. This is why most electric vehicles are equipped with a liquid-cooled battery pack.
Another thing that can diminish batteries' lifespan is using Level 3 fast-charging stations. These stations can charge the battery up to 80% in 30 minutes, but they can also overheat the battery. Carfax warns that this can affect the battery's long-term performance and longevity.

I wonder how many electric cars out there have actually hit 100,000 yet?
It would be kind of hard to get that mileage with something that's pretty much an "around town" vehicle.
By the way... I'm no math expert by any means. But your quote of "1,500 charge cycles which should translate to roughly 300,000 miles." really seems off. And according to the manufacturers they only guarantee their batteries to 100,000 miles. That's quite a ways off of 300,000 miles. 

Frankly, I'd be scared to drive one one of those things much of a distance. Fearing I'd have to stop at somebody's house and ask to borrow some electricity. And then they would show me a 110 plug.  

[held1823]

So, I parked next to a charging station today doing a small job in Palm Desert.
Evidently, there is no charge for plugging in your car. Isn't that just dandy. Free electricity.

it's doubtful the funding came from where you assume it did

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/volkswagen-clean-air-act-civil-settlement#mitigation

applicable text from the link above includes these three statements

Eligible mitigation actions may also include, in a more limited capacity, charging infrastructure for light duty zero emission passenger vehicles.

The CAA 2.0 liter partial settlement requires Volkswagen to invest $2 billion in ZEV charging infrastructure

The State of California, on behalf of its California Air Resource Board and the California Attorney General, joined the United States in both the 2.0 liter partial settlement and the 3.0 liter partial settlement.

like them or not, the technology will continually evolve and electric vehicles will become the norm. it's no different than how model t's were replaced by vehicles such as the ones this website caters to.

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

Hi Folks,             19 JUly 2021

Ah yes, the sound of an electric motor: Hmmmm!

The sound of a real Elephant Motor: If you've been fortunate enough to own and/or drive one, there's no contest; the 426 Hemi wins hands down.

Not much is said about the fires, battery disposal, cost to replace, etc. If I'm not mistaken, the lithium batteries are made in china; the pollution from the lithium mining and manufacturing process, not much said on that front. Huge government subsidies rarely mentioned. Inconvenient truth.

Long live the gasoline engine. Hope it outlasts us all . . . . . by many years.

Next will be the tyre; it's made from "oral/earl." Lithium tyres anyone?

For us, it'll be the gas engine until ....

Best Always

426 Hemi Chicks

Amen sister!
If we end up with electric motors in our cars... we'll have to put cards in our spokes.  

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

So, I parked next to a charging station today doing a small job in Palm Desert.
Evidently, there is no charge for plugging in your car. Isn't that just dandy. Free electricity.

it's doubtful the funding came from where you assume it did

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/volkswagen-clean-air-act-civil-settlement#mitigation

applicable text from the link above include these three statements

Eligible mitigation actions may also include, in a more limited capacity, charging infrastructure for light duty zero emission passenger vehicles.

The CAA 2.0 liter partial settlement requires Volkswagen to invest $2 billion in ZEV charging infrastructure

The State of California, on behalf of its California Air Resource Board and the California Attorney General, joined the United States in both the 2.0 liter partial settlement and the 3.0 liter partial settlement.

like them or not, the technology will continually evolve and electric vehicles will become the norm. it's no different than how model t's were replaced by vehicles such as the ones this website caters to.

Oh, no doubt.
I'll soon be 67. So I hope to enjoy my Mopar's until the end.
I feel sorry for my grand daughter though. She really wants my truck.

[held1823]

I'll soon be 67. So I hope to enjoy my Mopar's until the end.
I feel sorry for my grand daughter though. She really wants my truck.

last time i checked, anyone could still pick up a model t.

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

I'll soon be 67. So I hope to enjoy my Mopar's until the end.
I feel sorry for my grand daughter though. She really wants my truck.

last time i checked, anyone could still pick up a model t.

The bad part about it... they will legislate enough laws to make it almost impossible to drive our old cars.
Tax the living snot out of gasoline. Make registration fees so high nobody will be able to afford to drive them.
BUT, if enough people make a stink, and vote the clowns out... we might have a chance.
Problem is... there's too many clowns.