Are 68 69 and 70 Chargers becoming unaffordable and non existing?

[Challenger340]

I believe we are at the beginning of an extremely difficult and expensive period to buy parts for or maintain these old Cars .... let be for a minute restore anything.
One can only speculate what effect that may have on prices/availability of complete running examples.

COVID may have changed the landscape for a very long time if not forever ?

Case in point with the Engines ?
There are currently
NO aftermarket Cylinder Heads available anywhere
NO Cam Blanks available... "Lifters" are suspect at best and remaining stock inferior CHINA crap that fails
NO Intake manifolds available ( a few Torker 2's nobody wants left in one Michigan whse)
NO H Rod Bearings left in BB Mopar Sizing.... same goes for any of the prefferred main Sets, and current remaining stock is from a run done back in Oct 2017 and slated "NLA" by Clevitte back then.
the list goes on and on and on....

And even when production does resume manufacturers are already indicating higher numerical priority applications will be replenished FIRST.... BB Mopars being very far down in any potential market share.

In our Shop... we have enough parts left for 2 more BB Mopar Engines..... then we're done.

[INTMD8]

I say "collectible value" when cars have a valuable VIN (or some other history).  

The vast majority of muscle cars don't have VIN value.  They are only worth the price of buying/building another one like it.  

In some cases the replacement cost might be $100,000+.  Or an owner might demand $150,000 even though the replacement cost is only $100,000.  But the value is still set by the replacement cost in the broad sense.  Nobody is gonna pay $3 million for it.  

Right I get that, just saying that I don't subscribe to the theory that values drop when whatever generation is gone.

[Mike DC]

  

Right I get that, just saying that I don't subscribe to the theory that values drop when whatever generation is gone.

Pre-WW2 cars (as a whole) have dropped in value.  1950s stuff isn't far behind.  

The muscle stuff is in a better position to defy the trend than any other group of cars.  But I think it's still gonna happen.  The fall will be blunted & drawn out because these cars have about 3 generations of fans.  But the boomers represent most of the owners and they have most of the money to spend on them.  I don't see how values could possibly not be affected when you subtract that group.  No other generation is gonna be that wealthy as a whole (because of a bunch of factors).

I'm ignoring dollar figures here and speaking in terms of real-world values.  The US govt prints too much money for anything to ever get much cheaper by the numbers.  

[INTMD8]

What prewar cars were worth a lot that aren't worth a lot now?

If it's very common, they were always cheap.

50's post sedan, cheap, always cheap.  50's desirable or vert, expensive and have been for some time.

My opinion is, most prewar cars are not exceptionally attractive.  Many muscle cars are beautiful in a way that will never be duplicated. That makes them timeless rolling art.

I may be wrong, that is just my opinion.

[Mike DC]

What prewar cars were worth a lot that aren't worth a lot now?

It's not specific drops, it's the overall trends.   The average pre-war stuff is not keeping pace with inflation from what I've seen.  


IMO the muscle cars will lose some value when the boomers are gone. They will lose more about 20 years later when the next generation of fans goes, and at the same time, younger kids will not have grown up seeing them as very fast anymore.  A fire-breathing 426 Hemi will seem slow & antiquated to a kid who has grown up with electric sports cars.   
 

[JimShine]

Another enormously important factor most overlook is the fact that there are only some cars desirable on a global level. Chargers are in that group. One of the reasons they are drying up is the fact many are being exported out of the country. And it has become such an easy thing to do, all you need is the money to do it. Having broad interest means even when "all the boomers die off", supply might increase for a brief time, but a lot of those are are going to end up overseas and most likely never return back to the American market.

[Mike DC]

Another enormously important factor most overlook is the fact that there are only some cars desirable on a global level. Chargers are in that group. One of the reasons they are drying up is the fact many are being exported out of the country. And it has become such an easy thing to do, all you need is the money to do it. Having broad interest means even when "all the boomers die off", supply might increase for a brief time, but a lot of those are are going to end up overseas and most likely never return back to the American market.

True.  

But it fails to upset me.  From what I've seen, foreign owners treat these cars as well as Americans do, or better.  And there is no law against re-importing the cars back here at some other time.  It's just capitalism.  Supply & demand.  No better, no worse.  

Overseas buyers cause a lot of talk.  They often buy from high-visibility places like Ebay and classic car dealerships.  But the majority of sales are still here within north america.  



Wider demand = more repro parts and more future for the hobby.  Hey, we Mopar guys are always bitching about how GM/Ford guys have it easy because their market is bigger.

If the American demand was ever going to spur a reproduction 68-70 Charger body shell, then I think it already would be here.  If a repro shell gets made in the future then we can thank the worldwide demand for it.    
           

[Kern Dog]

Fact.

[lloyd3]

KD: Amen....

[timmycharger]

Fact.

Fact? people can't have kids and a Charger? sorry I don't get the Meme..  Just messing with you

[lloyd3]

Never said it couldn't be done, but....much harder. Kids are usually the end of most of the toys, including cars. It seems like you and I did something right, eh?

[Kern Dog]

How about THIS one....?

[b5blue]

Fact.

Fact? people can't have kids and a Charger? sorry I don't get the Meme..  Just messing with you

I'm actually re-installing brake boost and Borgeson steering for my kids when they inherit the 70. 

[timmycharger]

How about THIS one....?

[timmycharger]

Never said it couldn't be done, but....much harder. Kids are usually the end of most of the toys, including cars. It seems like you and I did something right, eh?

Oh no doubt!  I have seen it happen many times! Having a wife that gets it also helps!

[Homerr]

Maybe this?   

[Kern Dog]

That is great!

[timmycharger]

Maybe this?   

Hahaha!! Good thing they are both going to the tech school to learn a trade!

[JimShine]

Another enormously important factor most overlook is the fact that there are only some cars desirable on a global level. Chargers are in that group. One of the reasons they are drying up is the fact many are being exported out of the country. And it has become such an easy thing to do, all you need is the money to do it. Having broad interest means even when "all the boomers die off", supply might increase for a brief time, but a lot of those are are going to end up overseas and most likely never return back to the American market.

True.  

But it fails to upset me.  From what I've seen, foreign owners treat these cars as well as Americans do, or better.  And there is no law against re-importing the cars back here at some other time.  It's just capitalism.  Supply & demand.  No better, no worse.  

           

I see it as a benefit. So long as the cars are in demand, there will be a market for replacement and upgrade/retrofit components. That is a positive. But I am also not in the market for a Charger. It is a double edged sword for some. They want projects for peanuts, but would be screwed if demand was so low, new parts were no longer available to fix them.

[hemi-hampton]

Another enormously important factor most overlook is the fact that there are only some cars desirable on a global level. Chargers are in that group. One of the reasons they are drying up is the fact many are being exported out of the country. And it has become such an easy thing to do, all you need is the money to do it. Having broad interest means even when "all the boomers die off", supply might increase for a brief time, but a lot of those are are going to end up overseas and most likely never return back to the American market.

True.  

But it fails to upset me.  From what I've seen, foreign owners treat these cars as well as Americans do, or better.  And there is no law against re-importing the cars back here at some other time.  It's just capitalism.  Supply & demand.  No better, no worse.  



           

I see it as a benefit. So long as the cars are in demand, there will be a market for replacement and upgrade/retrofit components. That is a positive. But I am also not in the market for a Charger. It is a double edged sword for some. They want projects for peanuts, but would be screwed if demand was so low, new parts were no longer available to fix them.

Who wants projects for Peanuts? from what I can see rust bucket wasted garbage Projects are getting $20k+, 4 times what they are really worth, in my opinion.

[Mike DC]

I see it as a benefit. So long as the cars are in demand, there will be a market for replacement and upgrade/retrofit components. That is a positive. But I am also not in the market for a Charger. It is a double edged sword for some. They want projects for peanuts, but would be screwed if demand was so low, new parts were no longer available to fix them.

Yeah, pretty much.  It's a double-edged sword.  That's always the case for enthusiasts.  

If these cars weren't so valuable than we would own more of them, but we might not do as much with the ones we owned.  The aftermarket is required in order to drive them, fix them up, race them, etc.  If these cars were cheap then I think enthusiasts would have more parts-cars and garage queens.

The higher value makes each owner concentrate more of his investment/effort into fewer cars.  Instead of having a comfy cruiser + a fast race car, we end up building one car that does both.  IMO that's not such a bad thing.  You cannot drive two cars at once. 

-------------------------------------------

                           

Who wants projects for Peanuts? from what I can see rust bucket wasted garbage Projects are getting $20k+, 4 times what they are really worth, in my opinion. Twocents shruggy

It depends on what you want the car for.  If you want a raw-material Charger to heavily customize it, then a nice $60k finished car doesn't look like such a good choice.

Not everyone wants to do heavy customizing but many people want specific things.  Colors, drivetrain, suspension, wheel/tires, etc.  And many "restomod" changes are pretty mainstream now.  For these buyers, paying $60k for a finished car does not get them a finished car.  It won't be anywhere near THEIR finished car yet.    
           

[Old Moparz]

Something that I've learned is to simply hoard things.  

I used to wander junkyards, buy things cheap or in better shape than something that I already had. Sometimes I'd sell off duplicates but I saved many things because of just how difficult it was and still is, to find something. As for availability of cars like a 2nd generation Charger, mine will sit in the garage for years until I get to it before I sell it.

If I never get to it, then so what? That's not my effin' problem if I'm dead.  

As for baby boomers being hard workers that deserve their stuff, BULLSHIT. I know a good number of them who inherited their parents house and live rent and mortgage free.

[tcs69rt]

Maybe this?   

I was not prepared for college costs. I sold land to help with the 174K CSU bill and kept my 69 Charger RT to give to him at a later date. I gave my son an empty college graduation card! I paid his entire way, now he can start life as a 24 yr old Physicist with zero college debt. And maybe the car will help him out someday, a "rolling investment" if you will.

[marshallfry01]

I think a lot of the crazy charger prices has to do with this dark place America is in at the moment.  The dollar is losing value day by day, people are getting paid to stay at home instead of work so there are so many places that can't normally produce a product since there is no help.  Hell, I've been waiting on an AMD passenger side rear quarter panel since May cause they're on back order.  A lot of AMD's stock is sitting at a dock somewhere over seas because there's a shortage of people to work in that area and there are some other political things involved with trade that is F##king everything up.  So many different parts are on back order and there is nothing we can do about it.  It seems like we never had an issue with shit like this back when gas was affordable last year and we could wake up every morning and see a mean tweet posted by someone in the white house.... but i'm trying not to get political.  Is politics the only reason supply and demand is screwed? Probably not, but its responsible for a large portion of it.  I said all of that to say this... when we go months and years without being able to get parts for these cars, then the ones that are turnkey will be going for more than an average price since they don't need any new reproduced parts to make them useable.  If things don't change in the near future, it won't make a shit if you can find a decent project for 20k if you cant get the metal and the other parts to complete the restoration. I have a 69 R/T and is a pretty good project car.  It is no cream puff by any means but its very solid compared to most project chargers. Metal wise it needs a passenger quarter, (cause its pretty beat up, not rusted) a trunk floor, some rear window patches, and a rear valance. This project has been on hold for months cause i'm waiting on a damn quarter panel. This problem will only get worse in time if people don't get back to work and if the whole global trade doesn't get straightened out.  It's not just AMD. Hell you can't find any aluminium heads and some other engine parts... legendary is on a 30 week waiting list/back order because they cant get materials. USCartool is out of stock for the stage 1 and 2 body stiffening kits. I mean the list just goes on and on. Now I know all of this will really only make the prices of completed chargers go up... but for the prices of rusty projects constantly climbing, well I would blame that on the value of the American dollar dropping.  That's one reason gas has went up (plus a lot of other things). But a lot of times I think we see someone's crazy asking price and in our minds we may think they're getting that.... well an asking price and selling price is two different things. I do think they're more younger people getting into the hobby. Hell i'm 27 and I was talking to a 17 year old kid last night and he said his dream car is a 69 charger... so the dreams of owning a second gen charger is not dying off anytime soon. I guess when it comes down to the value its just simple supply and demand.... but I think the social medias and restoration/auction channels have fogged some of these seller's minds into making them think they're rusted out POS 318 car is worth 20k. 

[odcics2]

Yes, January 6th WAS an extremely dark day in the history of these Unites States.