Are 68 69 and 70 Chargers becoming unaffordable and non existing?

[chargerbird]

My first car was a 68 charger and I was 15 1/2 when I got it.  Had to wait 6 months to be able to drive with a permit.  I have had several over my life and the last one I bought was about 10 years ago.  Still have the 69 Charger, but I have been searching for a solid 68.   I have been off this forum for a few years but I notice less and less chargers for sale and less 68.  You still see more 70 chargers.   What will happen to them in the next few years?       

[AKcharger]

They ain't getting cheaper that's for sure

[Mike DC]

    
Go shopping with $100k.  You will find cars all day long.  

Sorry to be flippant but it's the truth.  The era when people junked a workable 2nd-gen Charger has been over for 25 years.  The supply has only gone UP since then, as more rough cars have been restored back to complete status.  There is no car shortage.  There is only a shortage of cheap ones.    

             

The cars are more expensive than ever because they reflect the money being spent on them.  A car does not keep existing for decades unless somebody spends money to keep it that way.  Garage storage, insurance, etc.  

And that's just the costs for leaving it alone, never mind working on it.  When you find a surviving Charger that was built with a 318 and green paint, it probably isn't a green 318 anymore.  That 440 swap and the black paintjob all cost money too.  It all contributes to the prices.  

[Kern Dog]

This car was $250 in 1994.

[Kern Dog]

This car was $1700 in 2000:

[chargerbird]

I agree and its sad to see ... its gone from a hobby to how much can I
get for it today at Barrett or another auction house...

[Lennard]

According to many milenials on Fakebook... and I quote: "you can get muscle cars for cheap when the boomers (owners) die off."

[tan top]

According to many milenials on Fakebook... and I quote: "you can get muscle cars for cheap when the boomers (owners) die off."

thats not the first time i've heard a certain generation say  that  !!

[Lennard]

According to many milenials on Fakebook... and I quote: "you can get muscle cars for cheap when the boomers (owners) die off."

thats not the first time i've heard a certain generation say  that  !!

I've read that many times over the years and I hate that kind of attitude.

It's not about how bad you want it, it's about how hard you're willing to work for it.

[Mike DC]

  

I've read that many times over the years and I hate that kind of attitude.

It's not about how bad you want it, it's about how hard you're willing to work for it.

That attitude exists because of basic math.  

The boomer generation is 20% of the US population, it has 80% of the wealth, and it's nearly the oldest demographic now.  
   

[jefferson]

yup sure are.

look at the prices second gens are fetching for online now.
Almost 70-100k for a complete car.
Nuts.
Most selling in Aus range from 140-160k AUD the last few months, which is what? 100k US?
crazy.

[Lennard]

 

I've read that many times over the years and I hate that kind of attitude.

It's not about how bad you want it, it's about how hard you're willing to work for it.

That attitude exists because of basic math.  

The boomer generation is 20% of the US population, it has 80% of the wealth, and it's nearly the oldest demographic now.  
   

Boomers didn't get that wealth from sitting on their asses waiting for the older generation to die so they could get what they want.

[INTMD8]

thats not the first time i've heard a certain generation say  that  !!

Same here. I'm still waiting for all the cheap Duesenbergs but haven't found any yet 

[Mike DC]

Boomers didn't get that wealth from sitting on their asses waiting for the older generation to die so they could get what they want.

Things you can count on in this world:

1.  Death
2.  Taxes
3.  Older generations saying young people are lazy punks.        


The fact is that boomers currently have most of the wealth, most of the classic cars, most of the interest in classic cars, and they are older.  It's just good sense to guess muscle cars will be cheaper when they are gone.  And for a young person, it's good financial sense to postpone big unnecessary toy purchases for a while.  What is wrong with any of this reasoning?      

[Mike DC]

          

Same here. I'm still waiting for all the cheap Duesenbergs but haven't found any yet  lol

1971 Hemi Cuda convertibles probably won't become cheap just because boomers are gone.  They have collectible value.  


But a 1973 Barracuda with a 318 VIN . . . that's a different question.    
 

[Kern Dog]

Boomers didn't get that wealth from sitting on their asses waiting for the older generation to die so they could get what they want.

  F A C T.

[70 sublime]

Any classic car is not going to be less money when the boomers that have them now die off and the estates sell them off

They might not keep going up in price as much as a different newer car that becomes the next best thing to have

How much did a new 1969 Dodge Charger cost when new ? $5000 ?
How much does the same 2021 new Dodge Charger cost today ? $50 000 ??

The second gen Charger will never cost less money than now but it might look cheaper when a brand new Charger ( or what ever car ) average new price is $75 000

[INTMD8]

         

Same here. I'm still waiting for all the cheap Duesenbergs but haven't found any yet  lol

1971 Hemi Cuda convertibles probably won't become cheap just because boomers are gone.  They have collectible value.  


But a 1973 Barracuda with a 318 VIN . . . that's a different question.    
 

Yes but I thought we were talking about cars that have collectible value.

[Mike DC]

 
I say "collectible value" when cars have a valuable VIN (or some other history).  

The vast majority of muscle cars don't have VIN value.  They are only worth the price of buying/building another one like it.  

In some cases the replacement cost might be $100,000+.  Or an owner might demand $150,000 even though the replacement cost is only $100,000.  But the value is still set by the replacement cost in the broad sense.  Nobody is gonna pay $3 million for it.  

[b5blue]

  The category of cars that you own but don't really NEED or USE much is so rare for most. The internet completely overhauled the used car market and that is what you see now. The ability to sell anything to anyone anywhere finds buyers with the most money. So yea 2nd gens are never to be "affordable" again. 

[AKcharger]

Oh! this might be fun:
- 1st '70 (white) bought Oct 1981 for $350 running and was my high school car...sold in 1986 for $300 I think
- 2nd '70 (B/O) bought 2002 for $500 ($250 for title and $250 back storage)..non running abandoned in storage lot... sold in 2019 for $35,000
- '72 bought 2004 for $2500 non-running but complete and $500 more and it was on the road again...still have it apprased April at $35000
- 3rd '70 bought in Aug 2020 for $31,000 running but needed paint and TLC...appraised in April at $67,000 (after mini resto)

[RallyeMike]

The last Charger I sold was a 1970 383/727 column shift bench car for around $3300 in 2001 or so. It was a complete driver, original paint, numbers matching, green x3 with pretty moderate rust. I thought it was a fair deal at the time. That $3300 was the highest eBay bid, so I think that is pretty reflective of the car's value to people. Not long after that, the prices started to take off.....

Prices are not "becoming" unaffordable. They have been so for quite some time, though of course, affordability is relative to one's disposable income.

[Mike DC]

               
A lot of it is inflation of the currency and higher costs of doing everything.    


It's completely normal these days to spend $70k on a new pickup truck.

Your local cruise night is full of cars with $15k engines.  

It's normal to spend a couple thousand bucks on a used modern V8 from a junkyard or auction.  

The body shop bill for a big resto can easily hit $30k.  The shop will probably spend $5k on the paint & materials.    

[hemi-hampton]

               
A lot of it is inflation of the currency and higher costs of doing everything.    


It's completely normal these days to spend $70k on a new pickup truck.

Your local cruise night is full of cars with $15k engines.  

It's normal to spend a couple thousand bucks on a used modern V8 from a junkyard or auction.  

The body shop bill for a big resto can easily hit $30k.  The shop will probably spend $5k on the paint & materials.    

A Friend of mine Charges $30k just for a paint job & doesn't include any body work. LEON.

[AKcharger]

A Friend of mine Charges $30k just for a paint job & doesn't include any body work. LEON.

I was going to ask how much you charged for the RR you did

[Challenger340]

I believe we are at the beginning of an extremely difficult and expensive period to buy parts for or maintain these old Cars .... let be for a minute restore anything.
One can only speculate what effect that may have on prices/availability of complete running examples.

COVID may have changed the landscape for a very long time if not forever ?

Case in point with the Engines ?
There are currently
NO aftermarket Cylinder Heads available anywhere
NO Cam Blanks available... "Lifters" are suspect at best and remaining stock inferior CHINA crap that fails
NO Intake manifolds available ( a few Torker 2's nobody wants left in one Michigan whse)
NO H Rod Bearings left in BB Mopar Sizing.... same goes for any of the prefferred main Sets, and current remaining stock is from a run done back in Oct 2017 and slated "NLA" by Clevitte back then.
the list goes on and on and on....

And even when production does resume manufacturers are already indicating higher numerical priority applications will be replenished FIRST.... BB Mopars being very far down in any potential market share.

In our Shop... we have enough parts left for 2 more BB Mopar Engines..... then we're done.

[INTMD8]

I say "collectible value" when cars have a valuable VIN (or some other history).  

The vast majority of muscle cars don't have VIN value.  They are only worth the price of buying/building another one like it.  

In some cases the replacement cost might be $100,000+.  Or an owner might demand $150,000 even though the replacement cost is only $100,000.  But the value is still set by the replacement cost in the broad sense.  Nobody is gonna pay $3 million for it.  

Right I get that, just saying that I don't subscribe to the theory that values drop when whatever generation is gone.

[Mike DC]

  

Right I get that, just saying that I don't subscribe to the theory that values drop when whatever generation is gone.

Pre-WW2 cars (as a whole) have dropped in value.  1950s stuff isn't far behind.  

The muscle stuff is in a better position to defy the trend than any other group of cars.  But I think it's still gonna happen.  The fall will be blunted & drawn out because these cars have about 3 generations of fans.  But the boomers represent most of the owners and they have most of the money to spend on them.  I don't see how values could possibly not be affected when you subtract that group.  No other generation is gonna be that wealthy as a whole (because of a bunch of factors).

I'm ignoring dollar figures here and speaking in terms of real-world values.  The US govt prints too much money for anything to ever get much cheaper by the numbers.  

[INTMD8]

What prewar cars were worth a lot that aren't worth a lot now?

If it's very common, they were always cheap.

50's post sedan, cheap, always cheap.  50's desirable or vert, expensive and have been for some time.

My opinion is, most prewar cars are not exceptionally attractive.  Many muscle cars are beautiful in a way that will never be duplicated. That makes them timeless rolling art.

I may be wrong, that is just my opinion.

[Mike DC]

What prewar cars were worth a lot that aren't worth a lot now?

It's not specific drops, it's the overall trends.   The average pre-war stuff is not keeping pace with inflation from what I've seen.  


IMO the muscle cars will lose some value when the boomers are gone. They will lose more about 20 years later when the next generation of fans goes, and at the same time, younger kids will not have grown up seeing them as very fast anymore.  A fire-breathing 426 Hemi will seem slow & antiquated to a kid who has grown up with electric sports cars.   
 

[JimShine]

Another enormously important factor most overlook is the fact that there are only some cars desirable on a global level. Chargers are in that group. One of the reasons they are drying up is the fact many are being exported out of the country. And it has become such an easy thing to do, all you need is the money to do it. Having broad interest means even when "all the boomers die off", supply might increase for a brief time, but a lot of those are are going to end up overseas and most likely never return back to the American market.

[Mike DC]

Another enormously important factor most overlook is the fact that there are only some cars desirable on a global level. Chargers are in that group. One of the reasons they are drying up is the fact many are being exported out of the country. And it has become such an easy thing to do, all you need is the money to do it. Having broad interest means even when "all the boomers die off", supply might increase for a brief time, but a lot of those are are going to end up overseas and most likely never return back to the American market.

True.  

But it fails to upset me.  From what I've seen, foreign owners treat these cars as well as Americans do, or better.  And there is no law against re-importing the cars back here at some other time.  It's just capitalism.  Supply & demand.  No better, no worse.  

Overseas buyers cause a lot of talk.  They often buy from high-visibility places like Ebay and classic car dealerships.  But the majority of sales are still here within north america.  



Wider demand = more repro parts and more future for the hobby.  Hey, we Mopar guys are always bitching about how GM/Ford guys have it easy because their market is bigger.

If the American demand was ever going to spur a reproduction 68-70 Charger body shell, then I think it already would be here.  If a repro shell gets made in the future then we can thank the worldwide demand for it.    
           

[Kern Dog]

Fact.

[lloyd3]

KD: Amen....

[timmycharger]

Fact.

Fact? people can't have kids and a Charger? sorry I don't get the Meme..  Just messing with you

[lloyd3]

Never said it couldn't be done, but....much harder. Kids are usually the end of most of the toys, including cars. It seems like you and I did something right, eh?

[Kern Dog]

How about THIS one....?

[b5blue]

Fact.

Fact? people can't have kids and a Charger? sorry I don't get the Meme..  Just messing with you

I'm actually re-installing brake boost and Borgeson steering for my kids when they inherit the 70. 

[timmycharger]

How about THIS one....?

[timmycharger]

Never said it couldn't be done, but....much harder. Kids are usually the end of most of the toys, including cars. It seems like you and I did something right, eh?

Oh no doubt!  I have seen it happen many times! Having a wife that gets it also helps!

[Homerr]

Maybe this?   

[Kern Dog]

That is great!

[timmycharger]

Maybe this?   

Hahaha!! Good thing they are both going to the tech school to learn a trade!

[JimShine]

Another enormously important factor most overlook is the fact that there are only some cars desirable on a global level. Chargers are in that group. One of the reasons they are drying up is the fact many are being exported out of the country. And it has become such an easy thing to do, all you need is the money to do it. Having broad interest means even when "all the boomers die off", supply might increase for a brief time, but a lot of those are are going to end up overseas and most likely never return back to the American market.

True.  

But it fails to upset me.  From what I've seen, foreign owners treat these cars as well as Americans do, or better.  And there is no law against re-importing the cars back here at some other time.  It's just capitalism.  Supply & demand.  No better, no worse.  

           

I see it as a benefit. So long as the cars are in demand, there will be a market for replacement and upgrade/retrofit components. That is a positive. But I am also not in the market for a Charger. It is a double edged sword for some. They want projects for peanuts, but would be screwed if demand was so low, new parts were no longer available to fix them.

[hemi-hampton]

Another enormously important factor most overlook is the fact that there are only some cars desirable on a global level. Chargers are in that group. One of the reasons they are drying up is the fact many are being exported out of the country. And it has become such an easy thing to do, all you need is the money to do it. Having broad interest means even when "all the boomers die off", supply might increase for a brief time, but a lot of those are are going to end up overseas and most likely never return back to the American market.

True.  

But it fails to upset me.  From what I've seen, foreign owners treat these cars as well as Americans do, or better.  And there is no law against re-importing the cars back here at some other time.  It's just capitalism.  Supply & demand.  No better, no worse.  



           

I see it as a benefit. So long as the cars are in demand, there will be a market for replacement and upgrade/retrofit components. That is a positive. But I am also not in the market for a Charger. It is a double edged sword for some. They want projects for peanuts, but would be screwed if demand was so low, new parts were no longer available to fix them.

Who wants projects for Peanuts? from what I can see rust bucket wasted garbage Projects are getting $20k+, 4 times what they are really worth, in my opinion.

[Mike DC]

I see it as a benefit. So long as the cars are in demand, there will be a market for replacement and upgrade/retrofit components. That is a positive. But I am also not in the market for a Charger. It is a double edged sword for some. They want projects for peanuts, but would be screwed if demand was so low, new parts were no longer available to fix them.

Yeah, pretty much.  It's a double-edged sword.  That's always the case for enthusiasts.  

If these cars weren't so valuable than we would own more of them, but we might not do as much with the ones we owned.  The aftermarket is required in order to drive them, fix them up, race them, etc.  If these cars were cheap then I think enthusiasts would have more parts-cars and garage queens.

The higher value makes each owner concentrate more of his investment/effort into fewer cars.  Instead of having a comfy cruiser + a fast race car, we end up building one car that does both.  IMO that's not such a bad thing.  You cannot drive two cars at once. 

-------------------------------------------

                           

Who wants projects for Peanuts? from what I can see rust bucket wasted garbage Projects are getting $20k+, 4 times what they are really worth, in my opinion. Twocents shruggy

It depends on what you want the car for.  If you want a raw-material Charger to heavily customize it, then a nice $60k finished car doesn't look like such a good choice.

Not everyone wants to do heavy customizing but many people want specific things.  Colors, drivetrain, suspension, wheel/tires, etc.  And many "restomod" changes are pretty mainstream now.  For these buyers, paying $60k for a finished car does not get them a finished car.  It won't be anywhere near THEIR finished car yet.    
           

[Old Moparz]

Something that I've learned is to simply hoard things.  

I used to wander junkyards, buy things cheap or in better shape than something that I already had. Sometimes I'd sell off duplicates but I saved many things because of just how difficult it was and still is, to find something. As for availability of cars like a 2nd generation Charger, mine will sit in the garage for years until I get to it before I sell it.

If I never get to it, then so what? That's not my effin' problem if I'm dead.  

As for baby boomers being hard workers that deserve their stuff, BULLSHIT. I know a good number of them who inherited their parents house and live rent and mortgage free.

[tcs69rt]

Maybe this?   

I was not prepared for college costs. I sold land to help with the 174K CSU bill and kept my 69 Charger RT to give to him at a later date. I gave my son an empty college graduation card! I paid his entire way, now he can start life as a 24 yr old Physicist with zero college debt. And maybe the car will help him out someday, a "rolling investment" if you will.

[marshallfry01]

I think a lot of the crazy charger prices has to do with this dark place America is in at the moment.  The dollar is losing value day by day, people are getting paid to stay at home instead of work so there are so many places that can't normally produce a product since there is no help.  Hell, I've been waiting on an AMD passenger side rear quarter panel since May cause they're on back order.  A lot of AMD's stock is sitting at a dock somewhere over seas because there's a shortage of people to work in that area and there are some other political things involved with trade that is F##king everything up.  So many different parts are on back order and there is nothing we can do about it.  It seems like we never had an issue with shit like this back when gas was affordable last year and we could wake up every morning and see a mean tweet posted by someone in the white house.... but i'm trying not to get political.  Is politics the only reason supply and demand is screwed? Probably not, but its responsible for a large portion of it.  I said all of that to say this... when we go months and years without being able to get parts for these cars, then the ones that are turnkey will be going for more than an average price since they don't need any new reproduced parts to make them useable.  If things don't change in the near future, it won't make a shit if you can find a decent project for 20k if you cant get the metal and the other parts to complete the restoration. I have a 69 R/T and is a pretty good project car.  It is no cream puff by any means but its very solid compared to most project chargers. Metal wise it needs a passenger quarter, (cause its pretty beat up, not rusted) a trunk floor, some rear window patches, and a rear valance. This project has been on hold for months cause i'm waiting on a damn quarter panel. This problem will only get worse in time if people don't get back to work and if the whole global trade doesn't get straightened out.  It's not just AMD. Hell you can't find any aluminium heads and some other engine parts... legendary is on a 30 week waiting list/back order because they cant get materials. USCartool is out of stock for the stage 1 and 2 body stiffening kits. I mean the list just goes on and on. Now I know all of this will really only make the prices of completed chargers go up... but for the prices of rusty projects constantly climbing, well I would blame that on the value of the American dollar dropping.  That's one reason gas has went up (plus a lot of other things). But a lot of times I think we see someone's crazy asking price and in our minds we may think they're getting that.... well an asking price and selling price is two different things. I do think they're more younger people getting into the hobby. Hell i'm 27 and I was talking to a 17 year old kid last night and he said his dream car is a 69 charger... so the dreams of owning a second gen charger is not dying off anytime soon. I guess when it comes down to the value its just simple supply and demand.... but I think the social medias and restoration/auction channels have fogged some of these seller's minds into making them think they're rusted out POS 318 car is worth 20k. 

[odcics2]

Yes, January 6th WAS an extremely dark day in the history of these Unites States.   

[timmycharger]

Yes, January 6th WAS an extremely dark day in the history of these Unites States.  

Were any 68, 69, 70 Chargers involved? I must have missed that  

[b5blue]

  When marshallfry01 was one I bought my 70 Charger for 1500.00. While it had sat for over a year unwanted at that price, in a week I had buyers for the car and engine for a total of 3000.00. I found the needed parts to put it on the road, patched it back together and drove it about 8 years non stop like a construction truck. My car paid it's dues, it had to earn it's keep. Now like an old dog it's part of the family. I recall only magazines for parts that were few and too far apart, outrageous prices with sky high shipping your only option. I think we are at the end of an era of ready to buy parts availability. Some things may never be back in stock like 10 years ago.  

[odcics2]

Yes, January 6th WAS an extremely dark day in the history of these Unites States.  

Were any 68, 69, 70 Chargers involved? I must have missed that  

Let's hope not. That would be a huge embarrassment.

[AKcharger]

Ah! the thread is going political huh? OK, game on with hot chick and airplanes!

[AKcharger]

[aerolith]

Yes on both accounts!

A very bad day in the history of the United States on JAN-6th, (I cried inside).
''Stop the Steel'' was cried out on Capitol hill and the 'restoration crowd' thought it was directed at THEM, (so they did)!

Chargers are a very desirable piece of American automotive history indeed!
It was every boys dream 'in the UK' to have one, after the 'Dukes' (carnage) had managed to destroy so many!
Us limeys thought ''you were disrespecting' the Charger, so we flew over and hoovered up as many as poss....
They was everywhere back in the 80's, you could drive around and buy them off the owners, as they didn't want them???

There is a guy in the Netherlands, that has shipped over 300 Chargers in the last ten years! (bad foreigner)

When the dollar is weak against the Euro currencies, you are in trouble indeed.
But the Covid pandemic has changed many things and the Electric ERA is upon us NOW!

Fix your Chargers and drive them NOW, before its too late.
Anyone who has more than ONE Charger, sell it and 'MAKE SOMEONE HAPPY'...

I've just sold my 69 Charger 500 and made some else VERY HAPPY indeed...

I was in Cali for many years seeing the RUST-FREE Chargers being 'cut-up' to fix other rarer and rustier Cars!
Once Sherman and AMD came on the scene, it became 'less of a worry', cos folks thought a Charger shell would eventually arrive?


But now it looks very unlikely, as that boat has now sailed...

[aerolith]

It was a great pleasure to meet the 'Duke family' for their only ever trip to England as a threesome.

They were on the Graham Norton show here in the UK and a good Moparmate supplied the 01 Charger for the day!

[F8-4life]

Mike dc has a good take on this. At some point in time chargers will be less desirable then they are now. I do think there natural beauty will somewhat sustain them over time but when generational demand drops (not nessecaraly with boomers only) and the prices will drop also. These cars are not isolated from this, although right now they are pretty desirable. Look at some of the 1980's and 1990's cars, they are coming up in price strong.