Seeking front suspension build options

[ChargerRT69]

Coming to a cross roads again on my '69 Charger R/T build and I am looking to find some people with actual experiences to help me decide on what to do with my front suspension setup. I have broken it down into a couple sections below to help give me suggestion based on what I am trying to build this Charger for as well as what I have on hand as of now.

Background Information
This 1969 Charger is an original R/T that I have owned since 1988. It does not have a matching 440 that came with the car when it was new and to my knowledge has at least 3 engines though it. The engine being put back into is a worked over 440 that might end up between 500-550hp. The TorqueFlite 727 has been beef up. The body has been completely done (rotisserie) with a complete take down. I did not paint it the original color, but instead did the color that I liked. Most to of the car is being put back the way I like, but to a non-enthusiast they would look at it at a show and think it might be original.

Parts already bought
The K-frame has been cleaned and repainted, but no major reinforcing was done. A LCA pivot tube (on the k-frame) was rewelded as it had broke. I purchased and installed Hotchkis greaseable pivot shafts with poly bush in the LCA. I have Bilstein High Performance Shock Set - Front & Rear, disc brake conversion, the original sway bar, original torsion bars, and original LCA strut rods.

Intended driving pattern
I intend to drive the Charger for pleasure with an occasional race (straight line – for my own enjoyment) as well as show it at some local shows. Although I can drive spirited, I do not plan on doing an autocross or any major hard turns. It has been so long since I actually drove this car, I cannot remember how the suspension felt originally, so comparing something to that will not help me. I would like a comfortable ride for cruising or poker runs, but able to get on it when the time dictates.

I will also note, that I thought about putting it back with the original sway bar, strut rods and torsion bars to see how it does. Then if I need to, replace parts later. Thoughts on this???

Feel free to ask me any questions if I forgot to include anything. As always, thank you in advance as I know there is just wealth of knowledge in the forum and value your opinions!

[Kern Dog]

A fairly stock based rebuild with larger torsion and sway bars, along with Bilstein RCD shocks would provide a great ride and improved handling.
Avoid KYB shocks. A 1.03 torsion bar set from PST, 1 1/8" solid or 1 1/4" tubular sway bar and a 3/4" rear bar with stock 5 stage leaf springs is a good setup.

[gsmopar]

If it's not a resto...  go big or go home.  I love my GERST front end.  RMS is another great option.  Sell the stock stuff to pay for the good stuff.   

[Kern Dog]

Great idea. Spend twice the amount of money for an inferior setup. BRILLIANT. 

[Mike DC]

--  Stiffen up the unibody.  Nobody ever does that and regrets it.   The US Car Tool kit covers the most important spots with minimal butchery to the body.   It means welding on additional pieces but not really cutting into the original stuff. 


--  Front disc brakes are also required if you don't have that already.  Today the factories wouldn't dare build anything with 4-wheel drums.  Modern traffic has adjusted for the improvement and made it more of a necessity.     



-- Beyond this, you just need a standard cruiser rebuild with the most useful basic updates. 

All new wearing parts (bushings, joints, etc).  Keep all the bushings rubber, especially the lower control arm one.  Beware: Modern Moog ball joints aren't the quality they used to be.  ProForged gets more votes these days. 

Stiffen the torsion bars up 1 notch, around 0.96-1.00".  Stiffen the sway bars up 1 notch at both ends (which means adding a small rear one).  Use the Bilstein shocks.  As for the rear leafs, stick with the stock "6 leaf" staggered R/T setup.  They may need to be replaced from age but don't get new ones any stiffer. 

--  There's a set of common weak points to beef up on the K-frame and the LCA mounting tubes are the worst offender.  The usual fix is to weld on some big heavy washers around the ends of the tubes to spread out the mounting load.  Also, the mounts for the steering box & arms can flex and that shows up in the steering feel. 

-- The upper A-arms can be replaced with aftermarket ones to move the ball joint location back and get extra caster out of it.  That helps pull the steering back towards centered when you let go of the wheel while the car is moving.  Less of the "motor boat" wandering feeling. 

You can also get the Borgeson aftermarket steering box to tighten the feel up even more, if you want.  It's not a requirement but it gives the car a more modern (less over-assisted) feel.  It gives slightly faster gearing ratio in the steering too (more sporty).     


--  Tell the wheel alignment shop to aim for 2000 Mustang settings.  They won't get there but have them get as close as they can.  If they resist doing this, explain that the Charger's factory specs were written for 1960s bias-ply tires.  If they still resist then take it to another shop. 
   

[ChargerRT69]

A fairly stock based rebuild with larger torsion and sway bars, along with Bilstein RCD shocks would provide a great ride and improved handling.
Avoid KYB shocks. A 1.03 torsion bar set from PST, 1 1/8" solid or 1 1/4" tubular sway bar and a 3/4" rear bar with stock 5 stage leaf springs is a good setup.

I have been busy, so I apologize for the lack of responses.

I do have the Bilstein High Performance Shock Set, but only the factory torsion bar set and front sway bar. As I am reading this, you would NOT recommend reusing the original items? On the rear, I was planning on replacing the leaf springs with the style that came from the factory on my R/T. That would be a 7 leafs on the passenger side and 6 leafs on the drivers side. Not sure what you are meaning by a "stock 5 stage leaf springs" setup.

[Kern Dog]

In stock form, these cars had soft front "spring" rates. The .96 torsion bar on HEMI cars is tame by today's standards and that was with an iron headed HEMI up there.
The .88 torsion bars in 318-383 cars are weak! They handled okay in regular driving but if you went into a corner too fast, they UNDERsteered like most front engine-rear drive cars did. If you took a left turn too fast, the front end went wide and skidded off the road to the right. Bigger torsion bars and a bigger sway bar can alleviate some of that by keeping the front end from leaning over so much.
A 1.03 torsion bar is a good choice for improved handling.
I used to be into 2nd generation Camaros and Firebirds. In the 80s, there were several companies that offered suspension parts for those cars and they all had a different approach. Herb Adams was one. He preferred soft springs and HUGE anti-sway bars. His thinking was that you'd have a soft ride for comfort but then the fat sway bars would come into play when turning. Rancho had the opposite approach. They used stiff springs and smaller sway bars than Herb did. The sheer number of cars built meant that the GM owners had more businesses making suspension parts for them compared to us Mopar guys. The one big name company that really went the extra mile for us is Hotchkis. There is Firm Feel, PST, Helwig and others but Hotchkis developed a system with specific shocks, sway bars and torsion bars-leaf springs. It isn't cheap but it is a proven system.

[ChargerRT69]

--  Stiffen up the unibody.  Nobody ever does that and regrets it.   The US Car Tool kit covers the most important spots with minimal butchery to the body.   It means welding on additional pieces but not really cutting into the original stuff. 
--  Front disc brakes are also required if you don't have that already.  Today the factories wouldn't dare build anything with 4-wheel drums.  Modern traffic has adjusted for the improvement and made it more of a necessity.     
-- Beyond this, you just need a standard cruiser rebuild with the most useful basic updates. 
All new wearing parts (bushings, joints, etc).  Keep all the bushings rubber, especially the lower control arm one.  Beware: Modern Moog ball joints aren't the quality they used to be.  ProForged gets more votes these days. 
Stiffen the torsion bars up 1 notch, around 0.96-1.00".  Stiffen the sway bars up 1 notch at both ends (which means adding a small rear one).  Use the Bilstein shocks.  As for the rear leafs, stick with the stock "6 leaf" staggered R/T setup.  They may need to be replaced from age but don't get new ones any stiffer. 
--  There's a set of common weak points to beef up on the K-frame and the LCA mounting tubes are the worst offender.  The usual fix is to weld on some big heavy washers around the ends of the tubes to spread out the mounting load.  Also, the mounts for the steering box & arms can flex and that shows up in the steering feel. 
-- The upper A-arms can be replaced with aftermarket ones to move the ball joint location back and get extra caster out of it.  That helps pull the steering back towards centered when you let go of the wheel while the car is moving.  Less of the "motor boat" wandering feeling. 
You can also get the Borgeson aftermarket steering box to tighten the feel up even more, if you want.  It's not a requirement but it gives the car a more modern (less over-assisted) feel.  It gives slightly faster gearing ratio in the steering too (more sporty).     
--  Tell the wheel alignment shop to aim for 2000 Mustang settings.  They won't get there but have them get as close as they can.  If they resist doing this, explain that the Charger's factory specs were written for 1960s bias-ply tires.  If they still resist then take it to another shop. 

Great information Mike!

I do have a front disc brake upgrade, but besides what the body shop did to the subframe, I do not think they used any specific stiffening kit. I do have all new bushings, but I did go with the Hotchkis grease-able LCA pivot shafts (poly - unfortuantely). Everything else is rubber for the ball joints and bushing. I did reinforce the LCA mounting tubes as one was already broke. I did buy a Borgeson 14:1 upgraded steering box.

I will need to remember to tell the shop that does the alignment the information about using the 2000 Mustang settings.

Thanks again for a wealth of information!

[375instroke]

What Kern said is close to what I run on my cars.  1.03-1.06" torsions, 1-1/4" sway bar, offset upper control arms or Moog offset bushings, poly only on the sway bar, and I use QA1 single adjustable, but many people recommend the Bilstein while not liking the KYB.  For alignment, shoot for +4° caster, or the most you can get, -.25° camber, and 1/16" toe in.