Anyone done the new 345 Hemi swap in a 2nd gen Charger?

[MO68CHARGER]

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/factory-plug-n-play-gen-iii-crate-hemi-engines-and-install-kits-from-mopar/ 

The price looks really good. With the money I'm looking at to completely rebuild a 440, its tempting to go the new modern 3rd gen Hemi route! Trying to find more info on what all it takes to do the swap. Will it fit in the stock K-member? Any other fab needed? I know it needs the wiring kit and alternator kit, but what else is needed? Will a stock auto 727 trans bolt up ok? Any members go this route yet? Thanks any help is appreciated!

[Bad B-rad]

It will fit the stock K-frame with correct mounts and oil pan.
If you buy the Mopar prefomance kit, it makes a lot of things easier.
I think most of the Mopar crate engines for this swap are set up for standard transmissions.
You can use the 727 auto, again with the correct adaptors.
And it sounds like you already know, but you also need the front drive kit to run the power steering(if you are running PS)
the alternator, and A/C(again if you are running A/C). And the front accessory drive kit can be pricey.
I am also not sure if the Mopar kit has the fuel pump, and mods needed to run the fuel injection system.

It is a really cool swap, and I keep going back and forth on it myself, but besides the price of the engine, and the $1700-2000,buck Mopar install kit, the other parts (front drive kit, mounts,trans adaptor kit, and so on)start to add up quick.
Plus the 345 Hemi (and I am a HUGE 5.7 HEMI fan, I am on my 3rd car with one,) wont have the off the line torque of a big block. Now the up top horse power(talking stock vs stock) goes to the Hemi.
Lots of things for you to think about.
Good luck and post lots of photos if you do go Gen3 Hemi!!!!

[303 Mopar]

I did the 392 swap in my '70 Cuda.  IM me any questions you have, also have a parts list and step-by-step instructions if you need it.

[Ryan.C]

I did the 392 swap in my '70 Cuda.  IM me any questions you have, also have a parts list and step-by-step instructions if you need it.

Could you post the parts list and instructions please!

[303 Mopar]

Could you post the parts list and instructions please!

Sure - here you go. Let me know if you have any questions.

392 Hemi Swap
This engine swap will require fabrication and modification to the firewall and engine bay of your e-body. You will need a good supply of tools, fabrication skills, and the use of a lift helps A LOT.  This is also a very expensive engine swap, so budget accordingly and expect the unexpected.

Parts List you will need
- 2016 392 Hemi crate engine SRT® 6.4L HEMI engine. With 485 horsepower and 475 lb.-ft. of torque, this complete engine assembly includes water pump, fly wheel and clutch, front sump oil pan, intake manifold with throttle body, fuel injectors and coil packs.
      FEATURES:
         • 392 cu. in.
         • 103.9mm Bore
         • 94.6mm Stroke
         • Cast Iron Block with 4-Bolt Powder Metal Caps
         • Forged Steel Crank Material
         • Powdered Metal, Floating Pin Connecting Rods
         • Hypereutectic Aluminum Piston Material
         • Nodular Iron Camshaft
         • Aluminum, Hemispherical Chamber Cylinder Heads
         • 54.3mm Intake Valve Size
         • 42mm Exhaust Valve Size
         • 10.9:1 Compression Ratio
         • 6,400 Peak RPM

- 392 Hemi engine covers (they do not come with the crate engine, #5038544AE and #5038543AE)
- Mopar Performance Wiring harnesses #7707245AB
- TTI headers #1223713

For a 727/518 automatic
- Flexplate (#P5153753) and 8 bolts (#6503465)
- Full manual valve body (#TAC-17875XA for forward pattern) for 727 and a different valve body system for engaging a OD for a 518
- Optional flexible transmission dipstick (#LOK-1211447). We were able to bend and adapt the stock dipstick to fit.
- 20' of positive 2 gauge cable to move the battery to the trunk
- Bouchilion Performance Radiator (#9D-19523-20) with 1 of their hoses (#20609G) and the lower hose for a E-Body small block engine, and an overflow tank
 (#S6074X).
- Milodon 31000 center sump pan, #18341 pick-up tube for 2009-later 392 Hemi's, and # 85025 short bolts for the pan
 DO NOT buy the Mopar rear sump pan kit
- In-tank fuel injection pump, tank, 3/8" fuel hose, and filter regulator with return (http://www.tanksinc.com)

Fuel rail  
-6 AN 90 degree 3/8" fitting that clips onto the fuel rail and fits under the engine cover, -6 AN high pressure hose, -6 AN straight fitting that connects to fitting provided by tanks inc
- Mopar Performance engine front drive system
- Power steering pump #77072448 and a remote reservoir, alternator #77072445, and ngine mounts (Shumaker #BCE57H or TTI)
- Block off plate, a remote oil filter base and high pressure hoses with fittings
 DO NOT buy the Mopar 45 degree oil filter adapter as it will not fit on a k-member
- Two 5/8" hoses with a 90 degree elbow for your heater hoses
- Cold Air Intake aluminum tubing with cone filter, bands and silicone hose coupling, ¾" nipple or  a ¾" hose bolt-through fitting for the clean air intake for the
 pcv system


[303 Mopar]

Installation Instructions
1. Order a new 392 Hemi.  When it arrives, uncrate the new engine and remove exhaust manifolds, clutch, flex plate and if you are going with an automatic you will need to cut out the pilot bushing  (3 cuts) as this is near impossible to pull out.  You may be able to remove the pilot bushing through compression by packing it with grease and hammer on the pilot shaft but you will need a spare pilot shaft. Remove the oil pan and dipstick.  If you want to use the stock dipstick in the block, it may be possible to re-bend and re-mark to fit around the headers. Mount the engine on an engine stand for most of the install steps below.  DO NOT mount the engine on the k-member until you are ready to bolt up the transmission. Caution engine as delivered was full of oil.

2. Drop K frame and remove engine and transmission – this is the easiest step of the swap.

3.For an automatic, buy and install a new flexplate (#P5153753) and 8 bolts (#6503465). Be sure to mark the bolt pattern so the holes line up with the offset
  bolt pattern by marking one of the bolt holes so it lines up properly.  You will also need a full manual valve body (#TAC-17875XA for forward pattern) if you
  are going to run the drive-by-wire pedal with a 727, otherwise buy the cable throttle body to run with your stock pedal.  You will also need a flexible
  transmission dipstick (#LOK-1211447) or bend the stock dipstick to fit.

4. You will need to relocate your battery to the trunk (buy 20' of positive 2 gauge cable) to clear the air intake.  We used the 1970 starter system connected
 directly to the battery and mounted on the left side of the block, not the computer starter system. The wire harness is set up for the starter to be on the right s
 side of the engine, so you will need to un-tape the harness and re-direct the wiring to reach the left side if you are going to mount your starter on the left side.  
 Also on the wire harness you can cut off and seal the starter cable connection because you will connect the positive battery cable directly, along with the starter
 connect for the battery on the wire harness to the starter.

5. You will need a center sump pump pan and pick up tube and short bolts as the oil pan is stamped steel and thicker than new pan (Milodon 31000 pan, 18341
 pick-up for 2009-later 392 Hemi's, and 85025 short bolts) and install. Reposition the stud from the number 1 main cap and position to number 3, swapping the
 bolt from number 3 to number 1 main cap. You can use the factory windage tray and gasket, and drill two new holes in the right and left rear corners.  The
 short bolts may bottom out on the block, so you will need to add 1-2 washers. DO NOT buy the Mopar or rear sump oil pan kit as it will hit the steering linkage.  

6. Buy and install in-tank fuel injection pump, tank, 3/8" fuel hose, and filter regulator with return from www.tanksinc.com.  I mounted the regulator filter on the
 shock cross-member towards left side and drilled two 1" holes through cross-member for fuel line clearance.  Route fuel hose along left side brake line or use a
 3/8" hard line but you will need to switch the fuel rail from left to right side of the block.  Install a 16 gauge hot wire from engine to tank and connect to fuel
 pump.  For 1970, you should have a vented fuel cap but for '71-74 you will need to run a vent line.

7. Buy and install new 90 degree fitting and high pressure hose on the fuel rail.  You will need a 90 degree 3/8" fitting to fit under the engine covers.  I used a -6
 AN 90 degree 3/8" fitting that clips onto the fuel rail, -6 AN high pressure hose, -6 AN straight fitting to connect with tanks inc fuel hose. or connect to a hard
 line.

8. Buy and install the engine front drive system including the power steering pump #77072448 and a remote reservoir, alternator #77072445, and engine
 mounts (Shumaker #BCE57H or TTI has them) with a .120 shim on the left mount to clear headers which may require dye grinding the k-member bolt hole to
 fit.  Alternator bolts on easy but will require you to trim the lip near the frame rail on the right side of the engine bay to fit.  The power steering pump will need
 a remote reservoir or a small square attached to allow the cold air intake to clear, and you will need a custom made power steering pump pressure hose with
 fittings to attach to the steering gear box.  You will also need a 3/8" hose to attach steering box to the reservoir, and a 3/4" return hose to attach the reservoir
 to the pump.  

9. Buy and install wiring harnesses #7707245AB.  This includes the drive by wire pedal which will need to be modified to fit onto the firewall if you want to use.  
 You can also convert to cable throttle body and use your factory pedal.  Install wiring, mount the ECM horizontally on the right side of the firewall above the
 heater core, and mount the distribution block on the right inner fender panel near the horns.  The wiring harness can be installed entirely before installing the
 engine.  The factory lighting, start system and temp sensor with sending unit stays.  You will need to tie in factory power sources (battery cable and power feed
 through the firewall incorporated in new wiring harness).  Cut a 1 3/4-2" hole in the firewall near the factory fuse block to feed the specific part of the new
 wiring harness inside and trim provided grommet on harness to fit hole.  Plug in the drive by wire pedal, connect ignition power relay, attach ground wires, and
 mount power buss.  You will use the factory neutral switch and start system so this will eliminate two wires on the new harness.

10. Buy and install two 5/8" hoses with a 90 degree elbow for your heater hoses on the back of the engine.  If you are running power brakes, you will need the
 brake vacuum hose to install on the back of the engine. Be sure to install these hoses BEFORE you install the engine as it is a very tight fit between the engine
 and the firewall.

11. Buy and install TTI headers #1223713. The torsion bar clearance on the right side may not be adequate and you will need to dent a tube.
 Mount the 392 Hemi engine to the k-frame, bolt up the transmission and if you are using a 727 auto, you will need to fabricate new transmission cooler lines
 hugging the transmission and block just above the oil pan and run them long enough to reach the front of the radiator support.

12. Install engine and trans on the k-member into the E-body from the bottom.

13. Reattach front suspension and brake lines.

14. Connect wires for fuel pump and fans to the ECM distribution block.  Connect the ground wires in the harness, and the main ground cable from the block to
 the frame or desired location (I used a bolt on the horns).

15. Buy and install radiator made for a 392 Hemi. Note that the inlet and outlet for the engine are both on the passenger side.  I ordered a Griffin through
 Bouchilion Performance (#9D-19523-20) with 1 of their hoses (20609G) and the lower hose for a E-Body small block engine.  You will also need to buy and
 install an overflow tank (#S6074X).

16. Install the remote oil filter on the k-member of desired location.  Install the remote power steering reservoir on the left side of the inner fender near where the battery used to be and attach hoses to the power steering pump.

17. Buy and install 392 Hemi engine covers at the end (they do not come with the crate engine, #5038544AE and #5038543AE).  The left cover is a tight fit with
 a 2-speed wiper motor.

18. Buy and modify Cold Air Intake aluminum tubing with cone filter, bands and silicone hose coupling.  The tube will need a hole with grommet for the air temp
 sensor, and a hole for the cleaner air intake supply hose, you will need to aluminum weld a nipple on or buy a ¾" hose bolt-through fitting.  You will also need
 to fabricate a bracket to support the tube.  

19. Fill the engine will oil, radiator with coolant, power steering fluid in the reservoir, transmission with fluid, and tank with 91 or above fuel.  The engine may
 not fire on the first attempt.  Also, the 392 is known to run between 220-228 degrees so your fans may not kick on until 228 degrees.

[Challenger340]

Looks like this was done correctly with full attention to detail, GOOD JOB ! 

If you don't mind me asking ?  What did your budget end up at ?

[Paul G]

I put a lot of effort in to planning a swap like this. My conclusion was, just too expensive, and too much work for the amount of power you get. Under 500 HP and FT# for around $14000 all in.

The upside to doing this, not a lot of people are doing it, so that adds greatly to the cool factor.   

You can bring the price down by using a good running take out engine that you do not plan to rebuild or modify.

Switching to a carb gets rid of a large amount of cost by not needing a high pressure fuel system and the electronic controls needed for fuel injection. A carb is old school and kind of defeats the purpose of doing the swap? You can get a stand alone controller to run the ignition system from MSD, this is designed for carb use.

There are conversion parts available now that help with mounting the engine to the K frame, conversion mounts. I believe most Mopar automatic transmissions can bolt up, just need a conversion flex plate.

Keep in mind that you will encounter problems that you will have to solve. That is because there are not many doing this, aftermarket support is slim, and expensive.   

[303 Mopar]

Keep in mind that you will encounter problems that you will have to solve. That is because there are not many doing this, aftermarket support is slim, and expensive.  

This is very true.  I throughly researched and planned this swap, and we did run into unforeseen issues.  That is part of the adventure though, getting creative and making it work.

Looks like this was done correctly with full attention to detail, GOOD JOB !  
If you don't mind me asking ?  What did your budget end up at ?

Thank you!  I ended up around $15k total with all new parts and no short cuts. This also included a small "rent" fee I paid to by buddy for using his shop, air tools and lift, which made the swap so much easier. I was able to sell my existing 340 6-bbl, the 392 manifolds, clutch, oil pan, and some other parts to help offset some the cost.

Overall, I am very happy with the performance of the 392.  Starts with a quick turn of the key the first time, every time. However, the 505ci stroker in my '68 Charger will beat it hands down because, well its a torque monster and your giving up 113ci.  The 392 is very quick off the line, will tree the Charger everytime.  But its all in by 5400 rpm's.  I ran it on dyno at 365 hp and 400 tq at the wheels, with my 727 and at 5300' elevation.  I just finished swapping the trans to a Passon 4 spd OD, so that should add about 20% to the hp and tq.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNC4hLjLphE

[randy73]

I bet you could save a lot buy getting a hemi out of a junkyard.

I have seen a lot of bolt on's and upgrades for the 392, to bump up the hp and tq if 495  is not enough for you.

[randy73]

One last thing, did you use your stock motor mounts?

[randy73]

One last thing, would it be possible to reuse your radiator if you have a HD one?

[303 Mopar]

One last thing, would it be possible to reuse your radiator if you have a HD one?

Both the in and out hoses are on the passenger side, and I did not want to chance the engine overheating so I went with a Griffin at the recommendation of Bouchillon. http://bouchillonperformance.com/products-radiators-gen3

The Radiator Supply House makes a good one too, more stock looking.  They provided the radiator for the 392 that Graveyard Carz did in their '71 Cuda.   http://radiatorsupplyhouse.com/

One last thing, did you use your stock motor mounts?

No, TTI and Schumaker both make conversion mounts and you will need them.  The engine sits further back, almost to the firewall.  You also have to shim the drivers side mount (1 washer) to get the headers to clear the stock power steering unit.

[70 sublime]

Better question

Would you do the swap again ??

[303 Mopar]

Better question

Would you do the swap again ??

Great question!  I am lucky enough to have a couple Mopars, so yes because I still have a carbureted engines to tinker on.  If this was my only classic muscle car, no because I love old school too much.

[RamZCharger]

One last thing, did you use your stock motor mounts?

No.  I used the TTI but mounted solid.  I did not have to shim, my TTI headers fit perfect without any modification, I am running power steering and AC also - 6.4 Hemi.

Better question

Would you do the swap again ??

Absolutely, I've had struggles with my build but the motor has pulled it all together without issue.  Lots of info here - http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,113643.0.html.  If you have any questions let me know.

[tonyskala]

I found a 07 Charger with a 5.7 hemi in it that was hit on the driver side while parked. Car has 98K miles on it and he wants 3k for everything. I went and looked at it and to my surprise the car started up and is actually drivable. There was a check engine light on and I did not bother to bring the code reader but the engine did not smoke tick or seemed abused. After reading your thread I think I might just have the block i have rebuilt and stick the holley sniper efi on it. This seems like a ton of work and I don't have the patience, space or time for something like this. I don't think I would finish it for a few years. But the fact you laid this all out was and is a tremendous help to me. Thanks a million

[ACUDANUT]

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/factory-plug-n-play-gen-iii-crate-hemi-engines-and-install-kits-from-mopar/ 

The price looks really good. With the money I'm looking at to completely rebuild a 440, its tempting to go the new modern 3rd gen Hemi route! Trying to find more info on what all it takes to do the swap. Will it fit in the stock K-member? Any other fab needed? I know it needs the wiring kit and alternator kit, but what else is needed? Will a stock auto 727 trans bolt up ok? Any members go this route yet? Thanks any help is appreciated!

345 Hemi ? is that the same as a 5.7 ?

[Rolling_Thunder]

I did a 6.1L Hemi swap about 10 years ago...