Tremec 5 speed swap into a '70 Charger

[Kern Dog]

This car feels so smooth compared to before. I made several changes during this swap so I can't give all the credit to the transmission.
*I lashed the valves and set them a little tighter than before....LESS clatter from the solid lifters.
*New carpet....This carpet has a membrane to it that ACC calls "Mass Backing". It serves as a sound deadener. I did already have the floors covered in another brand but maybe the carpet took it further?
*Console is more secure since the fasteners are all in place and snug.
*Clutch and brake pedals have new bushings in the mounts.
*Headers have clearance dents to avoid contact with anything.
*No loose or sloppy A/T shift linkage.
*New drive shaft and U-joints.

I had grown used to the old car vibrations and noises. I didn't like them entirely but I am used to them.
That is one of the things about old cars. They do wear on you during the long drives. I have owned 2 "classic" Dodge trucks that were running & driving rigs. BOTH beat me up with shakes, vibrations, wind noises, engine smells and who knows what else. The Charger was never as bad as either truck but in each of the 4 long 1000 mile round trips, the one glaring memory is that I did feel a bit frazzled after a couple hundred miles in the seat. I never wanted to completely eliminate the old car feel though. If you wipe out all of the smells and sounds, you lose much of the feel of old car ownership. The Wife's '15 Challenger is an excellent road trip car but is sometimes way too quiet.

[Mike DC]

  
Denser carpet would make a real impact.  

The driveshaft/joints could make a big difference or very little.  Depends on the condition of the old stuff.  Same with the pedal bushings.  



I often wear earplugs on long road trips (even in newer cars).  And in movie theaters, hockey games, etc.  My hearing is fine so the plugs don't block out anything important.  They work more like a volume knob.    

[tan top]

A thread like this should be archived.  Great write-up and thanks for making the effort.  Thanks for posting all the real costs too.
             

What (Mike DC) said   good  write up with pictures & info etc , thanks for Sharing KD  

console top plates look awesome ! much much better than the woodgrain   IMO
woodgrain should of been for the SE option only !  not that im a fan of woodgrain

[Kern Dog]

Thanks, TT.
The woodgrain looks right with a woodgrain steering wheel and dash trim. Otherwise, it seems out of place.

[Kern Dog]

103 miles on it. The shift feel is still great though a bit tighter than any other manual trans that I have driven. I've only stalled it once and the Wife was in the car to see that. Driving on the freeway at 80 doing 2200-2300 rpms is great!
I weighed the car this morning. I didn't have the spare tire in the trunk so I'd need to weigh one and add that number to the total.
About 20 years ago, I weighed the car with the original 318-904-8.25 axle but with the Dart front disc brakes. 2 gallons of gas in it and it weighed 3660. A year later with the 440-727-8.75 and I was at 3751, again with 2 gallons of gas. The 440 swap gained only 89 lbs partly because I removed all the underhood A/C stuff.
A couple of years ago before changing the HVAC system, I weighed 3940. This is with frame connectors, torque boxes, bigger torsion bars, front and rear sway bars, extensive sound deadener, the 18" wheels and tires BUT with lighter front seats and lighter rear disc brakes. THIS time I had a full tank.
After the Classic Auto Air project, I was at an even 4000 lbs. This surprised me because the original under dash unit is double the size and weigh as the aftermarket unit and I switched to an aluminum water pump housing. It surprised me to see that I gained 60 lbs despite losing weight elsewhere.

Todays weight with the full tank but NO spare: 3980. What does a spare tire weigh? 40-50 lbs? I guess I'll weigh one and report back.
I thought that this swap could have resulted in a weight reduction until I started looking at the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. The transmission itself weighs less than the 727. The drive shaft is 5 lbs heavier. This new carpet is heavier.
The 3660 and 3751 numbers are a bit deceptive. To compare to today's numbers, I have to add 17 gallons worth of gasoline weight. Gas weighs approx 6 lbs per gallon so I add 102 lbs to the totals.
3660= 3762
3751=3853.
When I went and learned the 3940 number in early 2018, I was surprised to see that it was so heavy. The difference in gasoline weight makes a big difference.

[johnnycharger]

Hi Greg!
It has been a while, I hope you are doing well. I jumped back on here strictly to research this swap. I was pleasantly surprised to find your awesome write up. Thank you. Since it has been a little bit since you have done it... did you get the renewed love for your Charger that you were hoping for? Would you do it again?

[Kern Dog]

Hey Johnny...The dude with the Duster wife, right?
Oh yeah...THis swap absolutely reinvigorated my interest in the car. I LOVE the way it runs and drives now. I'm still getting the hang of the 4-5 and 5-4 shifts.
I've gone from 2nd to 5th several times because the shift gates are so tight. I've downshifted from 5th and bumped reverse too. I've never engaged reverse then but it makes a grinding sound. I haven't driven a manual trans in years so I'm relearning as I go. During casual cruising, I do well. Its just that when I get amped up, I must be losing my senses and shift the lever too far or too short.
I have only stalled it twice and both times were with the wife. I was trying to take off smoothly and didn't apply enough throttle. That was the first day.
The cruising rpms dropped so much that at speed, it feels so much smoother than before. I can hear the engine hum but also hear the stereo. That is nice.
I'm not getting better mileage though because I'm on the throttle more....I like the rev up and down the engine makes with gear changes. It is a lot of fun. I suspect that on a long trip, the mileage would show an improvement.

[johnnycharger]

Lol yes my wife had a Duster the last time I saw you. I am happy to hear that you are so enthusiastic about your Charger now. That is awesome! I have the tremec in my 2013 Challenger and have also been thinking about putting it in the Charger. I have installed the Barton self centering shifter for it. It is a huge improvement in my book. You may want to look into it. My rear is 4.10, so this may help on the highway....
I am surprised the transmission isn't locking you out of reverse once you are moving forward for safety. Mine won't allow it to get even close to it.

[Derwud]

I love the Tremec in my Car.. I need to find some one that is ordering to offer the Pistol Grip from my Wagon.. Or someone that wants to trade a 4spd auto or 727 and Gear Vendors for my Tremec in my Wagon.

[Kern Dog]

You're looking to convert the wagon BACK to an automatic?

[OzCharger69]

Did the pistol grip shifter come with the kit or bought separately?

[Kern Dog]

It was additional and NOT cheap.
Forum member Derwud has one he is looking to sell. He is a nice guy, he may work you a fair deal on it.

[Derwud]

You're looking to convert the wagon BACK to an automatic?

Yeah, want to make more daily and wife friendly.. The Charger is for banging gears and taking beards..

[Derwud]

Did the pistol grip shifter come with the kit or bought separately?

It is an extra cost option.. I like my hands on balls, not pistol grips... (Sorry had to) I like traditional Shifters..

[OzCharger69]

Did the pistol grip shifter come with the kit or bought separately?

It is an extra cost option.. I like my hands on balls, not pistol grips... (Sorry had to) I like traditional Shifters..

Sent you a PM if you have one you're willing to sell

[Kern Dog]

You're looking to convert the wagon BACK to an automatic?

Yeah, want to make more daily and wife friendly.. The Charger is for banging gears and taking beards..

I don't understand this part.

[Kern Dog]

As the miles slowly rack up, sometime soon I'll be able to lean on the car harder. Since the first drive though, I've noticed that this transmission seems to be fine for easy and moderate shift action but I am sensing that it might not be so good for fast shifting. The 1-2 and 2-3 shifts still feel a bit stiff compared to what I would expect. I keep thinking that it will loosen up a bit. Maybe it will.

[DAY CLONA]

As the miles slowly rack up, sometime soon I'll be able to lean on the car harder. Since the first drive though, I've noticed that this transmission seems to be fine for easy and moderate shift action but I am sensing that it might not be so good for fast shifting. The 1-2 and 2-3 shifts still feel a bit stiff compared to what I would expect. I keep thinking that it will loosen up a bit. Maybe it will.

Stock Tremec TKO will "loosen up" after approx 250-500 miles assuming you dialed in the bellhousing properly, but a quick 2-3 shift will require a learning curve on your behalf as to how much you can shove down the ol' girls throat, one of the reasons why I recommended upgrading to carbon synchro's when you mentioned a possible TKO purchase some time ago, there's also a host of shift kits, syncros, cone mods, and shifter housings from other manufactures as well, if you truly want a speed shifting gear banger then faceplating a TKO is required, but that's a full bore "race" piece that requires some mastering and tolerance for street use

[igozumn]

I went with pretty much the exact same kit, just for a '69.  Non-pistol grip, non console.  Installed it September of '19.  I've been pretty happy with mine, with the only real complaint, is clutch chatter when pulling it into the garage.  Not sure if it's their dual friction version clutch and if their regular organic setup would fix it.  I did go with the carbon upgrade on the trans and think it helps, but nothing to compare it to.  I do wish the shifter handle was an inch or 1.5 inches back more.  Some day I may heat it up with a torch and then have it rechromed. I had just bought new carpet and installed it, so I had a hole where an original 4-speed shifter sits.  Wasn't going to throw away brand new carpet, so, I modded an original boot ring with bad chrome, and used some shelf liner and the provided SS-T emblem to create my own "bezel" look that sort of goes with the factory SE woodgrain dash. The glitter knob came from Twisted Shifterz.

[Kern Dog]

It makes me smile thinking of how much more enjoyable that this car is compared to when I thought I "finished" it in 2004. The years go by and I find new things to tinker with, new things that improve drivability. Sound deadening matting makes a huge difference. A working heater is a great thing too. This transmission makes the car more fun, more comfortable and I love the sounds of the engine during all the shifts!

[moparstuart]

I went with pretty much the exact same kit, just for a '69.  Non-pistol grip, non console.  Installed it September of '19.  I've been pretty happy with mine, with the only real complaint, is clutch chatter when pulling it into the garage.  Not sure if it's their dual friction version clutch and if their regular organic setup would fix it.  I did go with the carbon upgrade on the trans and think it helps, but nothing to compare it to.  I do wish the shifter handle was an inch or 1.5 inches back more.  Some day I may heat it up with a torch and then have it rechromed. I had just bought new carpet and installed it, so I had a hole where an original 4-speed shifter sits.  Wasn't going to throw away brand new carpet, so, I modded an original boot ring with bad chrome, and used some shelf liner and the provided SS-T emblem to create my own "bezel" look that sort of goes with the factory SE woodgrain dash. The glitter knob came from Twisted Shifterz.

love the glitter knob , reminds me of an old set of klackers i had in the 70's  

[375instroke]

Oh yeah...THis swap absolutely reinvigorated my interest in the car. I LOVE the way it runs and drives now. I'm still getting the hang of the 4-5 and 5-4 shifts.

The cruising rpms dropped so much that at speed, it feels so much smoother than before.

You're running 3.55 gears, and .64 fifth, right?  How do you like the 4-5 rpm spread?  I'm contemplating the .81 fifth so the rpm drops are even, and there's not a big jump in rpm if I have to downshift.

[Kern Dog]

I do have 3.55s and the .64 overdrive. To me, it is an excellent choice. The engine makes so much torque, it even pulls in fifth gear at 70 mph. The other gear ratios seem just right too. I really am pleased with the whole setup.

[375instroke]

I went with pretty much the exact same kit, just for a '69.  Non-pistol grip, non console.  Installed it September of '19.  I've been pretty happy with mine, with the only real complaint, is clutch chatter when pulling it into the garage.  Not sure if it's their dual friction version clutch and if their regular organic setup would fix it.  I did go with the carbon upgrade on the trans and think it helps, but nothing to compare it to.  I do wish the shifter handle was an inch or 1.5 inches back more.  Some day I may heat it up with a torch and then have it rechromed. I had just bought new carpet and installed it, so I had a hole where an original 4-speed shifter sits.  Wasn't going to throw away brand new carpet, so, I modded an original boot ring with bad chrome, and used some shelf liner and the provided SS-T emblem to create my own "bezel" look that sort of goes with the factory SE woodgrain dash. The glitter knob came from Twisted Shifterz.

Does the shifter handle say anything on it?  Is it a Silversport handle, or Hurst?

[375instroke]

Kern, do you know if your Pistol Grip is unique to this transmission, or is it from another application?