A new chapter in the life of an unrestored Hemi Daytona

[ACUDANUT]

Troy
The nose is off the car and under wraps right now locked away in the shop office so i cannot get pictures easily. Now if you want pictures of radiator support, nose support, inner front fenders I have the rare opportunity to get them!
Bob

I was curious how they did the tranny cooling line routing on your car compared to 69hemidaytona's Hemi Daytona, did that cut a hols in the latch tray like his.....

English please. "did that cut a hols in the latch tray like his...."

[426HemiChick]

English please. "did that cut a hols in the latch tray like his...."

Hi Lady Cuda,                     11 January 2021

There's a very simple explanation called a "Typo" or in this case "Typos."

"did that cut a hols in the latch tray like his...."

The first is "that" should be "they." If you look at your keyboard, the "Y" key is just to the right of the "T" key. That's one of my most recurring typos, The next typo is "hols," It has an "S" where the "E" should be making it "hole." This is another very common error I make.

Remember, you're a lady, and ladies have thinner fingers than men. Men have a more difficult time hitting the correct key every time. You being a lady, I'm sure you have flawless typing. Men on the other hand, have a tougher time navigating the keyboard.

Had I not gone back and edited this prior to posting it, it would have been a disaster; there were at least 7 typos. Have a wonderful day young lady.

Best Always,

Christine

[taxspeaker]

Here's pictures of latch tray (no cutout) and 3 angles of trans cooler. Cooler brackets are welded to yoke front and bolted to trans cooler. Got 2 of our 3 IT guys out with Covid now, so not much time for more.
Bob

[FJMG]

Thanks Bob, great pics. Two battery cooling holes, IIRC that is the earlier version before Chrysler switched (sometime during 69 model run) to 70 style single hole, having issues posting so I will email you a pic of the car at the BJ Phoenix showroom ( Nelson's I believe?)

[6bblgt]

(not sure if creative did that or dealer or even if there was changeover during run of the 34ish hemi-autos ) definitely a hemi-auto "head-scratcher" on these wing cars.

there were ONLY 20-22 HEMI automatic Daytonas built 

here's the current latch tray on the Radke/Lembeck HEMI automatic Daytona - anyone know if there is any nose damage history that would suggest it has been changed?

[hemi68charger]

... anyone know if there is any nose damage history that would suggest it has been changed?

Bob's latch tray doesn't seem to be cut up. I guess it depended on the tech who worked on the conversion that day...... Not sure if they took it upon themselves to bend the original line to reroute it through the opening groove on the side..  That's what I did on my conversion...

[taxspeaker]

I was able to rebuild the master cylinder without sleeving it and with lots of patient, gentle honing. I then put it on last night and spent the next 45 minutes carefully, thoroughly and repetitively bleeding the entire system and now the brakes are excellent. The bad news is my wife now has another 45 minutes of Hemi Daytona seat time than me. No cost except time.

I then removed Christine's old Hemi road runner carbs that she had left on the car and set them aside for her. Then I installed the oh-so-carefully rebuilt 4619 and 4621 carbs and all of the linkage in the exact original spots. In the attached pictures if you look carefully you will see that there is a slight amount of original orange overspray on the carb studs. I did have to replace the PCV hose but everything else is correct. As a side note, I now have in the shop a pair of 70 Hemi Cuda original carbs with 6,000 miles on them (courtesy of Christine), a pair of Hemi roadrunner original carbs (going back to Christine), an extra 4619 and 4621 Hemi daytona carbs that I rebuilt in case I could not get the above ones right, and 2 original 440 daytona carbs. Pronanly a Superbird carb in there too. My son says when I die he is going to retire early from the auction proceeds of a lifetime of accumulating these rare parts by pure luck.

Today I took the horn relay off, and very carefully disassembled it and found lots of corrosion and "erosion" inside the housing where apparently water collected. I carefully cleaned all corrosion, re-soldered the fittings and re-assembled it and now the horns work too-another careful step towards rebuilding original stuff, not replacing it. The only non-working electrical item now is the radio, which is way down my list. Again, no cost but time-maybe 45 minutes from off, rebuild, on and test. On the back of the starter relay there is a bit of orange paint where it was apparently re-installed by Creative Industries while the paint was wet.

I am now ready to attack the vacuum lines and fittings. It looks like the rear 3-prong vacuum fitting was plugged with solder in the dim annals of time. Not sure if that was original or not-I thought the Hemi's in 1969 had the green vacuum thing mounted on the manifold to split to the distributor and some other unknown area. Christine do you remember if this one had that fitting-I thought you mentioned you had it somewhere but I could very easily be confused on that and the green vacuum splitter with other years and cars. Does anyone have a picture of the correct line routing and fittings on a 69 automatic Hemi?

While researching the vacuum fittings we are getting very close to ignition now and working on:
1. We need to flush the block-it has got a lot of gunk in it and we need a warm day. Then we  can also finish the freeze plugs up.
2. At that point we will install the steel choke/exhaust tubes. We are cleaning up the threads in the old passenger side exhaust manifold Christine left for me after laboriously getting the 1 old threaded fitting out. I have never done the choke heat lines but I believe they will need to be dropped down from above rather than go up from below. Then we will install a new butterfly valve kit and the exhaust manifolds. The old intake manifold heat tubes are still on the engine and just need a bit of clean up to attach to the exhaust and pipes.
3. Re-install the transmission, starter and linkage.
4. Check, re-check and re-check all hoses, belts and tightness many times then hope fervently and hit the key. If the transmission is done I am still looking 3-4 weeks to starting attempts.

Thanks
Bob

[Davtona]

I am now ready to attack the vacuum lines and fittings. It looks like the rear 3-prong vacuum fitting was plugged with solder in the dim annals of time. Not sure if that was original or not-I thought the Hemi's in 1969 had the green vacuum thing mounted on the manifold to split to the distributor and some other unknown area. Christine do you remember if this one had that fitting-I thought you mentioned you had it somewhere but I could very easily be confused on that and the green vacuum splitter with other years and cars. Does anyone have a picture of the correct line routing and fittings on a 69 automatic Hemi?

Could you post a picture of the vacuum fitting at the back center of the intake? I believe it is a 3 prong fitting as you say. Center large one goes to the power brake booster I think. The left side small one goes to the left side of the green vacuum control. The right side nipple on the green unit goes to the vacuum advance on the distributor. The center nipple of the green unit goes to a nipple connection on the right front of the rear carburetor. Now back to the 3 prong intake fitting. The right side small fitting hooks to the vacuum hose for the headlight actuators. Hope your 3 prong intake fitting is usable as I believe these can be quite hard to find. I have been trying to locate one for my Hemi RT. I believe I may have found a solution to that problem however. They reproduce them but they are not correct pertaining to at least one feature. My understanding is they were only used on Charger RT'S & Daytona's with power brakes and a 426 Hemi. 440 cars did not get the green control so did not need that fitting connection. Any Charger or Daytona without power brakes did not need that hook up either. So had to have 426 Hemi, power brakes, be a Charger & in 68 or 69 only.   

[426HemiChick]

"Christine do you remember if this one had that fitting-I thought you mentioned you had it somewhere but I could very easily be confused on that and the green vacuum splitter with other years and cars. Does anyone have a picture of the correct line routing and fittings on a 69 automatic Hemi?"

Thanks
Bob

Hi Bob,                       18 January 2021

I have the green Gizmo, two of them to be exact, one belongs to the 68 Hemi RR and the other belongs to the Daytona. I think I remember the fitting that is like a little tree that threads into the passenger side at the rear of the intake manifold cylinder 8 intake runner; left side when looking at the engine from the front of the car.

I don't think I did anything with that vacuum port tree on the Daytona. I removed the PCV valve and cut a short piece of hose, plugged one end and slipped the other on the large vacuum port on the rear carb. The vacuum advance fitting should be on the left front of the front carb when viewed from the front of the car. I don't remember what the three port green gizmo does or what it was for.

The RR had the green Gizmo, though I don't know its real purpose. Neither the RR or SB have PB or PS. If the RR had the little tree fitting, I took it off and plugged the threaded hole with a threaded plug. The 68 Hemi was for racing so lots of gov mandated stuff was removed. Is that fitting missing on your Daytona? If it is and I find one in all the Mopar stuff, I'll send it to you.

I have been busy here in Texas trying to pack everything for our move back home to Phoenix. The house we have been trying to buy for 2 years is now under contract and our expected closing is the 29th of this month. We have done everything, just waiting for Escrow and Title to clear. The owners have moved out and we are waiting so we can have someone come in and remediate the odor from their cigarette smoke. Dena is in Phoenix taking care of things on that end. She was in the house yesterday to check on a few things, about 5 min in toto, she came out smelling like an ashtray. Can't believe people still smoke.

I have a number of items that I am sending you, been hoping to find the last two, the PCV valve and its housing and the Accel coil that was on the Daytona when we bought her in 72. So far no luck. You have been here and did see some of what is stacked up here. This is more of a warehouse than a house for living. We have a storage container from "Cool Box" in the driveway. It's 20' L x 8' W x 8' H, 1280 Cubic foot. Once it's loaded, we'll call them and they'll take it to Phoenix and hold it there until we are ready. Gotta get that smoke smell out before moving in. We want the pups to be happy with their new home. I'll try to get the stuff we have for you on its way to you this week. I'm sure the PCV stuff will show up during the repacking. We bought 160+ boxes and had a few from earlier.

Have one question for you: Did the original PS high pressure hose work or did you have to replace it? That's our question of the week.

Hope this info helps. Please take care and tell your son and Matt we said hello and hope they and all of you are safe and healthy.

Best Always,

426 Hemi Chicks

[69_500]

Starter really would have still been installed on firewall when it was at Creative. No reason for it to have been removed there. The orange paint on it, is purely over spray from them painting the front fenders and hood while they are installed on the car.

[Cygnus]

Hi, I am a newb here but just wanted to be able to have my first post be in this awesome thread. I have been a member of many awesome message boards and this one seems to have some incredible people in it too. I usually spend more time reading on a board before posting but I am anxiously awaiting the first key bump of this very rare automobile now.
I'll shut up for now and get back to reading. Thanks for letting me join. Tommy.

[ACUDANUT]

"Have one question for you: Did the original PS high pressure hose work or did you have to replace it? That's our question of the week"
Didn't the hemi-engines have a line cooler to the ps pump. ? WHY ??

[taxspeaker]

Two comments on the power steering hose. Yes it worked AFTER we put in a new O-Ring. And I do have a brand new, old-stock Chrysler original 69 Hemi Daytona one on the shelf. There is not a power steering cooler on this one, haven't seen one on the other few Hemi Daytonas either CudaNut. I will get a picture of the 3-prong vacuum fitting Wednesday when I go back to the shop and post it.

Dan, as always I defer to your knowledge of the assembly on these, thanks. Next time you come down take some more pictures-we are hoping to push it outside Wednesday and flush the block-you can help push the goop out-wear a raincoat.

Cygnus-welcome, thanks for commenting. If you are in the central US stop by and see the wings!
Bob

[426HemiChick]

"Have one question for you: Did the original PS high pressure hose work or did you have to replace it? That's our question of the week"
Didn't the hemi-engines have a line cooler to the ps pump. ? WHY ??

Hi Miss Cuda,                   18 January 2021

When you see Bob's photos of his Hemi Daytona's PS High Pressure hose, you will see the hose has some cooling capacity due to the twists and turns of the steel portion of the line. My thinking is they did intend for the line to provide a bit of cooling. I have seen this method used on other makes, Ford readily coming to mind.

Take care Miss Cuda.

Best Always,

426 Hemi Chicks

[maxwellwedge]

The Hemi's use a unique fitting on the box as well as a stupid expensive (if you can find one) hose.

[hemi68charger]

... There is not a power steering cooler on this one, haven't seen one on the other few Hemi Daytonas either CudaNut. I will get a picture of the 3-prong vacuum fitting Wednesday when I go back to the shop and post it.

...

I don't think there was a cooler on the Federal pump used on the 69 Hemi auto cars, even with the 4.10 Dana (was there ever a 4.10 Dana Daytona with a 426 Hemi).

[6bblgt]

the Radke/Lembeck F6 automatic engine compartment pictured above is a 4.10 Daytona & there is a sheet out there for a probable Dead & Gone white HEMI Daytona that was auto/4.10 - I'm sure there were others

& here's a picture of the reproduction #2944031 intake vacuum "T" - how does it differ from the factory piece?

[69_500]

Two comments on the power steering hose. Yes it worked AFTER we put in a new O-Ring. And I do have a brand new, old-stock Chrysler original 69 Hemi Daytona one on the shelf. There is not a power steering cooler on this one, haven't seen one on the other few Hemi Daytonas either CudaNut. I will get a picture of the 3-prong vacuum fitting Wednesday when I go back to the shop and post it.

Dan, as always I defer to your knowledge of the assembly on these, thanks. Next time you come down take some more pictures-we are hoping to push it outside Wednesday and flush the block-you can help push the goop out-wear a raincoat.

Cygnus-welcome, thanks for commenting. If you are in the central US stop by and see the wings!
Bob

If you were doing the work on a weekend, I probably would make the drive down. Tough to make it during the week when I work on north side of Indy, and then to make it your direction. Not impossible but difficult.

[Davtona]

... There is not a power steering cooler on this one, haven't seen one on the other few Hemi Daytonas either CudaNut. I will get a picture of the 3-prong vacuum fitting Wednesday when I go back to the shop and post it.

...

I don't think there was a cooler on the Federal pump used on the 69 Hemi auto cars, even with the 4.10 Dana (was there ever a 4.10 Dana Daytona with a 426 Hemi).

My understanding is the coolers were never used with the Federal Pumps. Only ever seen the coolers on the Saginaw pumps. And all Hemi's used the Federal pump correct? 

[Davtona]

& here's a picture of the reproduction #2944031 intake vacuum "T" - how does it differ from the factory piece?

The length of the hex part of the fitting is longer on the originals. Compare the length from the top of the "tree" branches up towards center nipple. Small difference but details are what makes things correct. It would be a little awkward to tighten one of the reproductions. 

[hemi68charger]

...
My understanding is the coolers were never used with the Federal Pumps. Only ever seen the coolers on the Saginaw pumps. And all Hemi's used the Federal pump correct? 

I believe the 340+6 T/As and AARs had the coolers and they all had the Federal pumps..

[Sgt Superbird]

I believe the 340+6 T/As and AARs had the coolers and they all had the Federal pumps..
[/quote]

My info shows you to be correct about the T/As and AARs. Federal = coolers. My T/A, by the way, does have the cooler. All 340-6 bbl came with at least a 3.55 rear end, which called for the PS cooler. A thread on the E-Body site states the pump and cooler were the same, but the pulley and brackets were different for hemi cars.

[taxspeaker]

T vacuum fitting picture attached. 1 goes to power brake booster, 1 to headlights, 1 is stopped up if you look closely. I will pull it when I get the green vacuum thing put back on the intake manifold and see what the story is.

The 2nd picture is some great Mopar porn. I got the front end back together tonight enough to roll the car outside tomorrow and flush the block. 50 year old wheels, tires and hubcaps clean up really well!

[tan top]

I believe the 340+6 T/As and AARs had the coolers and they all had the Federal pumps..

My info shows you to be correct about the T/As and AARs. Federal = coolers. My T/A, by the way, does have the cooler. All 340-6 bbl came with at least a 3.55 rear end, which called for the PS cooler. A thread on the E-Body site states the pump and cooler were the same, but the pulley and brackets were different for hemi cars.
[/quote]

...
My understanding is the coolers were never used with the Federal Pumps. Only ever seen the coolers on the Saginaw pumps. And all Hemi's used the Federal pump correct?  

I believe the 340+6 T/As and AARs had the coolers and they all had the Federal pumps..

i'm far from an expert , I always thought that it was down to the  axle ratio & or  axle performance packages, anything over 3.23  , if your car got a power steering cooler     I await to be corrected  , ive  seen hemis with federal pumps &  a cooler , ive  not seen a unrestored car though although that don't mean much  

T vacuum fitting picture attached. 1 goes to power brake booster, 1 to headlights, 1 is stopped up if you look closely. I will pull it when I get the green vacuum thing put back on the intake manifold and see what the story is.

The 2nd picture is some great Mopar porn. I got the front end back together tonight enough to roll the car outside tomorrow and flush the block. 50 year old wheels, tires and hubcaps clean up really well!

 

[hemigeno]

I've yet to see a p/s cooler on an unrestored '69 Hemicar - all of which would have had the Federal pump; nor have I seen one in a vintage photograph of the same, either.  On top of that, the 1969 factory engineering graphics do not show a cooler.

They may indeed have used coolers w/ Federal p/s pumps in later years - but the '69 model year didn't use them anyway.  I think 1968 is the same, but I'm less certain about that year than I am about 1969.