What it's like to be F@#$% by a bodyshop - Rant/warning/advice

[AKcharger]

The main purpose of this Forum is to learn about ALL aspects of our hobby hence why I'm sharing this embarrassing/humiliating story.  I've been here since 2003 and I've seen the misfortunes of others I STILL allowed myself to be screwed. So sit back, relax and enjoy my misadventure  

I purchased my most recent Charger in San Diego CA, end of Aug and it arrived in Fl on the Sept. 7th. A rock-solid all-original car and no rust...I was thrilled! The paint was fair, but suffered from 50 years of dents and dings and needed some love.  I had most of Sept and Oct. off and wanted to "hit it hard and fast." I wasn't going to pull engine & vinyl top was still good just needed dents, scuff, paint, as HLPAG would say an "easy do." The 3 "reputable" shops I visited couldn't touch it till 2021 so I found Mr. "X" on craigslist ( I know, I know) he had a convincing story, retired body shop owner from N.Y. moved to fl, has spare time loves old cars blah blah...more import said my car would be the only car he would work and he could finish it in a few weeks (Nov latest if there were problems) He said I was welcome to come to the shop and assist and boasted how I'd get picture of every step in the process along with daily updates. Ok, my "spidy senses" tried to tingle during our discussion when I asked what his shop rates were up in Long Island. He hesitantly said "oh $30-45...really I price by the job." My senses tried again to tingle as he described the high-end vehicles, he worked, However, I comforted myself by contacting a former customer, seeing samples of his work and inspecting his shop, all looked legit. In addition I ran the numbers and it made sense to me: $6500 = bodywork block sanding - $2000, Materials - $1000, actual paint/sand/buff - 2000 and profit - $1500, so it passed the 'looks right test".  We signed contract for $6500 and I delivered car next day along with $1000 deposit. Most people are lured to scammers by low cost, for me it was TIME. This guy doing the paint/body while I did odd and ends was perfect! I ignored the warning signs because of time...regardless of the reason LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!!

- Sept. 16 car delivered and I assisted in total strip of parts from car, (I took ALL parts home...just in case)it was a good start but did find the dreaded rear window rust but I was kind of expecting that
- "Spidey senses" (SS) tingle a bit when I hear him say "he likes to let bondo cure over night before working it" and story's he told while we're working seem a bit outlandish like a millionaire who paid him $1000 a week to wash his 5 cars and drive them around
- SS tingle more when I catch him lying about a repair on my fender, he said he welded two 2 holes in fender but I found only bondo also he was unaware you can warp a metal panel by a running a Stright bead of weld...an experienced body man should know that.  In addition, He was "not comfortable" with doing a window channel rust repair, I had to contract that out and assist/advice welder
- SS senses painful now as my car isn't being worked and I see other cars in shop and hear B.S. stories about all the hours of work he's put in on my car but I can tell it's not being touched
- Since vinyl top is off I asked him to spray roof trunk pan and under the hood, wants additional $600 which I pay...$600 isn't right. I'm now being stabbed repeatedly and screamed at by "Spidey Senses" and becoming VERY uncomfortable
-  Last time I was there on Oct 7th I was working the rear window repair and the whole day he did nothing but talk on phone...so I decide if car has not been worked, I'm going to pull it out and do it myself.
- Now luckily I'm super smart...well, I guess not that smart if your reading this...but I like to think I am!    Anyway I figure there is a 5% chance he could go nuts so I do my homework and dig into the FL Statues. I find 10 Violations of vehicle consumer law including one expressed statue that owner could NOT deny me my vehicle...clear as day. I prepare a letter for deputies, should they need to be called with references to statues along with receipts, title  ect. but of course that's not gonna happen
- Sept 12th drop by shop and indeed car has not been touched since last time I was there. I tell him "no hard feelings but I have a wrecker coming get car and I'll finish it myself" I walk out to confirm arrival or wrecker and when I turn to go back in  the door in locked and Mr. X is in his car with windows rolled up. I repeated attempt to talk to him and Im ignored.  I call sheriff's deputies as Mr. X drives off, well, at least I'm prepared, or so I think
- I wait for deputies...walk around a bit, nothing else to do, shortly after Mr. X returns and demands I leave his property as he  "watched me try and break in and I was trespassing" I respond for him to "call the police" and I sit and wait.
- Mr. X claims I owe him way more than $1600...I ask him five times for a bill or invoice to show support for additional amount, he refuses.
- Mr. X's 270lb Brother in law "Y" arrives, I call cops again and tell them its escalating (Y works at shop sometimes and we get along ok so it's not bad, in fact he assumes role of "Hostage negator")
- Sheriff's deputies arrive and I explain my case and provide what I think is ROCK-SOLD support to get my car...Not so much, they call their supervisor and say it's a civil matter and Mr. X doesn't have to release car.
- BUT LOOK...RIGHT THERE IS THE STATUE....HES BREAKING THE LAW...HE CANT DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nope, civil matter just a deer in the headlight look for deputies
- Knowing now I have to pay him whatever he wants, he now determines I owe and additional $3000...$4600 total.

OK, so I have two choices I can do the "right" thing and immediately hire an attorney, file suit, get a court date then get car back sometime in the future or grab my ankles and pay him whatever he wants. Unfortunately I've seen this before right here on this forum where people get in this situation and during wait for court the shop closes, dirtbag disappears and car and any parts left at shop vanishes never to be seen again. So what did I do...glad you asked, lets get back to our amusing story!!

- I want my car....fine I'll pay! again, I like to think I'm smart and figured this incredibly remote possibility might happen so I have my check book and start to write out check with Deputies there..."NO, CASH ONLY" says Mr. X   even though they're useless I don't want to the deputies to leave till my car is on a flatbed
- No choice, have to go to bank and find banks closed, Oct. 12th Columbus day   we agree on 10 am the next day
- a completely sleepless night as I mentally run though what happened...what could happen and everything in between
- Oct 13th...Happy Birthday to me BTW...act 2 of this S#!& show begins and I call Sheriff's office at 0840 on and ask "civil standby" as I was all alone with no witness with a bunch of cash in a remote industrial park. Not surprisingly I was told they don't do that, I was on my own
- I arrive at shop in the morning with $3500 in cash (extra $500 if he wanted more), tail between my legs and super kind an apologetic. He makes me wait outside about 15 minutes while he's "busy" then when he comes out I begin by saying "Mr. X I could have handled things differently yesterday and I apologize for causing such drama" I explain all I want is to get this behind us. He seems satisfied at my acknowledged defeat/submission and  with Mr. Y there as his witness I hand over money.
- He moves the 2 project cars that were blocking my car in, I guess in case I tried to break in, and I was cordial and asked questions like what Primer did you use so I can match it ect. This worked to disarm him a bit and he gave professional advice on what to do and I received his sage advice as a young student would listening to a wise master
-  After the car was outside I explained I'd be on his property only till tow truck arrived and assured him no hard feelings, this is all behind us and best wishes. I'm Lying through my teeth of course, as soon as my car is on the tow truck and driving away I am literally on the phone to my attorney and now I'm out for BLOOD

Truth is as much as I want to believe "he'll get his" I have to accept good people who are 100% within the law get screwed and that's it. Law-suits sound good, but to spend $5000 to recover $1500 doesn't make sense. And having my car sit in it's torn up state for months as "evidence" doesn't serve my purpose.


oh, and this is what $4600 of body work looks like (with me doing all the part/trim removal)...

[70 sublime]

Ouch 

[cdr]

    Very sorry this happened to you, because of my past experience & stories from this forum is why I chose to do the body & paint on my car,,, body shop prison, BODY SHOP HE11 , my car looks like a 2 year old did it but I get to drive it, look at it in my garage & when I see the flaws it has I think , I could have done a better job on the 1/4 panel, & then it hits me, I did not pay someone MEGA BUCKS to do a crappy job on my Charger I did it myself, & I can SMILE & be happy.

[ACUDANUT]

 Take him to court !! It may take a very long time to actually get to court.
Because of Covid, all civil cases are taking over a year to get heard.

[timmycharger]

aw man, sorry to hear this. Good on you for not knocking him out, I would have lost my cool for sure. Good luck on this. To me It would be worth it to drag him to court away from his shop just to bust his balls even if I don't see a dime back. F him..

[XH29N0G]

I hope you're successful with this period that really sucks

I'm impressed with what you did though.

[tan top]

  sorry to see / hear this ! 

[HeavyFuel]

Argh.

If it makes you feel better......and it won't.... my car was at the body shop for.......wait for it........6 years.

[lloyd3]

Hard story to read. Sadly, you've got to learn to listen to your "spidey" senses.  I know because I've done it too, ignored what my gut was telling me and paid the price. The minute things go sideways & don't add up it's time to go.  Mine was in the body shop for 5, BTW.

[birdsandbees]

Should have offered him a dollar in front of the officers.. refused it's all yours with no recourse. I'd run out of fingers counting how many airplane customers I've had that were taken down this road and had their plane held hostage.... and I then loaded within an hour by making the customer offer a dollar when the "pro" states I really don't know what he owes me. If they refuse the dollar.. it's all yours.

At least you have her back... better than many!

[Mike DC]

 


It's frustrating, but you made the right call to overpay that guy and get the car back when you did.  Lots of these stories have much worse endings. 


   

[AKcharger]

Well Thanks guys...I expected to be beat-up more.

I spoke with attorney today and it was about like I expected, mostly discouraging, but I do have a plan. He asked why I paid the final bill, he said he could have issued a demand letter and the shop owner would have released it. I don't regreat it, I learned laws don't always get enforced and car is home...mission accomplished

So tomorrow I'm loading car on trailer and going from shop to shop getting estimates on what they would have charged to do the work on the car. Simple formula: rip off bill - Reasonable bill = DAMAGES that's what I can sue for.  My legal package covers initial case support and my prep for small claims court so I'm on my way.

- CDR - smart!
- Acudanut - attorney said most cases are "Zoom" and acutally going very quick
- HF and lloyd3  - 5 and 6 years!! WTF!  
- Bird - I know what your saying but Deputies were USELESS the $1 would not have worked but thanks!
- MikeDC - thanks...yup it SUCKED but I agree...it's home

I have a feeling this will be a long and interesting thread...lets see how it ends!  

[dual fours]

Thanks for sharing your troubles. Glad she is in your possession .

[Mike DC]

            

I spoke with attorney today and it was about like I expected, mostly discouraging, but I do have a plan. He asked why I paid the final bill, he said he could have issued a demand letter and the shop owner would have released it. I don't regreat it, I learned laws don't always get enforced and car is home...mission accomplished

The attorney issues a demand letter, which officially burns the bridge with the shop owner . . . that leaves the owner pissed off, suspecting he won't get his money, and he's looking at your car sitting in his shop . . . . nothing good will come of that.  For all you know he might have already spent your money.  He might decide to pay you back by selling your own car parts.  You might have gotten the car back with no drivetrain & front clip or something.  No telling.  It has happened before.    

Then you might end up in small claims court trying to convince a judge what condition the car was in when the shop got it.  Or maybe trying to explain the intricacies of how much disassembly is required to do how much bodywork.  The shop owner is telling a different story and claiming that you requested more work than you really did, saying he's the bodywork expert in the room, etc.  The judge's eyes are glazing over . . .  


Naw.  F@#k that scene.  
You were smart to pay an extra couple grand and recover the car before the shop owner knew the bridge was burned.  Step #1 for these situations is do whatever it takes to get the car out of the shop's hands ASAP.   

 

[ACUDANUT]

           

I spoke with attorney today and it was about like I expected, mostly discouraging, but I do have a plan. He asked why I paid the final bill, he said he could have issued a demand letter and the shop owner would have released it. I don't regreat it, I learned laws don't always get enforced and car is home...mission accomplished

The attorney issues a demand letter, which officially burns the bridge with the shop owner . . . that leaves the owner pissed off, suspecting he won't get his money, and he's looking at your car sitting in his shop . . . . nothing good will come of that.  You might have gotten the car back with the drivetrain & front clip missing, or something.  

If you read the full acticle, he does have his car back. READ next time.

[Mike DC]

  

If you read the full acticle, he does have his car back. READ next time.

Read MY previous comment.  I already know he got the car back.  My latter comment was done in a hypothetical tone.

[hemi-hampton]

That's a real bummer to hear but not the first time. If I remember right don't you do paint & body work your self? I've worked in many different Paint/Body Shops & Resto shops my entire life, at least 35+ years & I wouldn't trust most of them, most are scammers. I can think of 2 I know of that do good Quality work & fair, trustworthy but expensive. that's like 2 out of like 20+ shops I've been in over 35+ years. Not good odds. like playing Russian Roulette. Luckily I can do my own paint/body Resto or most of it. BUT, My main question is from what I seen you had a pretty nice solid unrestored original paint & Body car. Just my opinion, I would of left it as is, unrestored original survivor. Or if you do do your own paint body do it yourself knowing how the body shops are mostly scammers. Then all this would of been avoided. No Insult intended. When I do a car I make a journal or diary & write down what I do every day on the car & charge Customer hourly. For example if I did the work that guy did & only had 40 hours in it I'd charge you $2,000. I'd charge hourly. you'd see my journal with hours & work performed recorded or written down & upon seeing that I'd assume you'd be happy to pay. BUT, I would never get myself in the situation that scammer did. if $6,500 was total & you paid $4,500 or close to that. you paid like 70% but he only did 25% of the work. LEON.

[darbgnik]

           

I spoke with attorney today and it was about like I expected, mostly discouraging, but I do have a plan. He asked why I paid the final bill, he said he could have issued a demand letter and the shop owner would have released it. I don't regreat it, I learned laws don't always get enforced and car is home...mission accomplished

The attorney issues a demand letter, which officially burns the bridge with the shop owner . . . that leaves the owner pissed off, suspecting he won't get his money, and he's looking at your car sitting in his shop . . . . nothing good will come of that.  For all you know he might have already spent your money.  He might decide to pay you back by selling your own car parts.  You might have gotten the car back with no drivetrain & front clip or something.  No telling.  It has happened before.    

Then you might end up in small claims court trying to convince a judge what condition the car was in when the shop got it.  Or maybe trying to explain the intricacies of how much disassembly is required to do how much bodywork.  The shop owner is telling a different story and claiming that you requested more work than you really did, saying he's the bodywork expert in the room, etc.  The judge's eyes are glazing over . . .  


Naw.  F@#k that scene.  
You were smart to pay an extra couple grand and recover the car before the shop owner knew the bridge was burned.  Step #1 for these situations is do whatever it takes to get the car out of the shop's hands ASAP.   

 

What he said. You were smart to just get the car back like you did.....

[Finoke]

Sux. I've always said that a poorly run or unscrupulous body shop takes the fun out of the hobby. I restore a car every couple of years. I currently only look for painted shells to finish so I don't have to go through it. A car would have to be pretty special for me to bring one back from the grave again.  

[Nacho-RT74]

Argh.

If it makes you feel better......and it won't.... my car was at the body shop for.......wait for it........6 years.

Mine 7 years and still on jackstands, fortunatelly already primed.

But I'm in Spain, my car is in Venezuela, which in any case was already 1000 miles away from my home there. The body shop is of a "friend" of mine what makes it worst! My Venezuelan passport is close to the expiration day ( by July next year ) and Venezuela is not processing new passports ( except if you pay the corruption of course ). Sure I have Spanish passport too, but I need the Venezuelan Passport to enter in Venezuela and leave from there with my car to Spain.

Nice Huh?

[RallyeMike]

Bummer. Still, I think you did the right thing.

[AKcharger]

I appreciate the support for decision to pay to get it out...in hind-sight 1 month and $4600 was a bargin compared to others

Well, it's been a long time my old frends, we have some work to do!

[AKcharger]

- HH I thought it was original paint except for the drivers fender but after careful inspection I found the the whole front end was repainted at one point. The main reason I didn't do it was what I call " the rabbit whole" Well if I'm going to paint it I should do the top, well to do the top I have to pull the windshield...well if I'm ever going to pull the dash nows the time since windshield is out"...and on and on. I wanted an acceptable paint job and drive the car NOW. 

I can absoultly do it I just didn't want to  

a few of my previous projects

[BrianShaughnessy]

Sorry... that sux.      Good luck finishing it   


The way things are lately....

1.  Quality job
2.  Fast turnaround.
3.  Affordable

Pick  ̶2̶   1.

[INTMD8]

I love those 4Runners, used to have the exact same one.  Still have an 88 pickup as well