Spot repair and paint blend on a new job

[AmadeusCharger500]

I finished my paint, base/clear on Thursday. I had a bubble about the size of a nickel, popped up midway up driver side quarter panel. Definitely has air under it. I'm thinking the substrate got dirty. Anyone have a link to a good video for paint blending or someone advice? I've never done spot repair in the middle of a large panel. I know I will have to sand  the bubble down to primer. I'll post photos tomorrow, just agonizing over this. I know it's also  time sensitive as the clear has set for over 2 days now.

[AKcharger]

Time is fine...here's what ya do
1) repair damaged area
2) scuff ENTIRE 1/4 panel
3) blend in color coat
4) Clear coat 1/4 to make repair seemles

Had to do a repair on my 70 immediatly after paint...can't tell when done

[AmadeusCharger500]

Thanks AKCharger. A few follow ups to your reccomendation.
1 How many coats of Clear? I did 3 in the overall job
2 Do I tape and mask at the body lines for the Clear?
3 do I go from body line under sail panel all the way to the bottom for clear coat, including the wheel body line?

[AKcharger]

Hi Amadeus

1) 1 maybe 2 coats, remember for most tof the area your just blending
2) See photos if the angle is sharp, like 90° mask on the edge and blend
3) Id scuff/clear do all flat surface near repair otherwisw you'll notice diffrence in clear

[AmadeusCharger500]

Got it, and great photos!
One more specific question and a general question.
1 the term scuffing, is that with a scotch brite pad? I am only familiar with sand paper sand paper like 600 grit. I'm a little sketchy on how thoroughly one scuffs.
2 2nd more general, and possibly asking to explain a lot, but here goes. I am not experienced with blending the base coat. My procedure for this job was quite clunky, if I found a problem in the base coat I would redo the whole panel or section. The one time I tried to blend a problem area it just looked like crap (totally noticeable difference in shades)

[AKcharger]

No sweat Sir, that's how we learn:
1) Scuffing is USUALLY with a green scotchbrite. All you're doing is giving a rough tsurface for the clear to BITE into. minimim grit to do the job, might need 400/600 if the clear is hard...try 600 1st
2) I wouldn't redo the whole panel I think you'll be fine with a repair BUT if you'd feel more comfortable Sure do the whole thing

Now if it was ME:
1) Mask along body line and door seem leaving the lower part of the 1/4 exposed
2) Block whole 1/4 in 600 till it is completly DULL and lifeless  remember not sanding clear coat off but taking 1s't layer off and making it "rough"(might need to start with 400)
3) 400 grit around the repair area about 18 x 18 inches solvent wipe and creese cloth
4) spray 18x18 area lightly, rememer it just a repair
5) reshoot clear over entire panel enough clear to make it shiny again...2 coats I'd guess
6) Wetsand and buff NOTE you'll have an ever so slight "lip" at the tape line at top of the 1/4...using 1500 grit on a paint stick EVER SO CARFULLY know it down. 1000/1500/2000 and cut buff will be perfect!

[AKcharger]

wet sanding and buffing...
http://dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=61461.0

[AmadeusCharger500]

All of that is perfectly understandable. Thanks so much. I can't wait to try it. Which, believe me, I have not been overly excited about. cutting into my new paint, I've been actively avoiding it. Im gonna be holding my breath,  But now I have a plan!

[AKcharger]

there ya go!

you should have see the runs I had on my 4 runner! lol!

[AmadeusCharger500]

I did enjoy the discussion on wet sanding/buffing. Thanks for that!

Ok here is where I am and I want to ask something before tomorrow because I plan on trying to finish this tomorrow as weather forecast is 72 degrees low humidity.

Fixed my repair, filled blocked and primer surfaced sanded 400 grit with a splash of guide coat. Then I carefully wet sanded the entire panel with 600 until there is no orange peel just that satin milky finish.  

My remaining question/hesitance.

1) If I color coat over approx 18 by 18 area and leave the rest of the panel in the scuffed stage will I be able to tell if it is blended before I apply clear coat?
My concern is that I am simply going to guess its fine and then a whole mess of shades reveals itself only after I apply the clear coat, at which point I have to start over.

Ive never done a repair like this in such an exposed area.

and yes I will be putting on more masking paper!

[AKcharger]

Holy smokes! you're motivated! I didn't expect to see it done so fast..you've earned my respect

- No, you shouldn't be able to tell if it's the exact same batch mixed the same way
- Yup re color the little spot repair and kinda "blend"  the remaining 18-24 inch area to avoid any abrupt color/metal flake pattern change, if thatt makes sense
- It will look a little diffrent till you get the panel back in clear...then the Magic will happen!

So what was the issue with that spot??

Good luck!

[AmadeusCharger500]

I noticed that spot when I was applying base coat but only after 2nd coat. So I  went to work sanding it with 600 and thought it would be fine. After applying 3rd coat I noticed it popped right back up. Long story short I was running out of time and said screw it maybe its not that bad. HA bad choice.
So yesterday I finally sanded it out again, its a bubble about the size of a nickle. I went slowly to see what it would do. I broke through the base coat with 220 and the bubble was still there. I scratched at it with a mini screwdriver until the spongy went away and I could find solid paint around it. It must have been dirt on the metal. Im guessing it was an oil or dirt spot. I'm not sure why I didn't notice it during the primer sealer guide coat sanding 400 and 600. Im hopeful about the repair but honestly I am just going by my limited experience.

Thanks so much for your continued attention and positive attitude. That really makes a difference to people. I'm sure you've been so gracious to many others as well.
The photo is taken from a video Im trying to document things, so its not great quality.

Ok so Im going out and getting this done today!

[Canadian1968]

was this a colur change ? what was under the bubble. Did you have to do body work ? Was there SNY rust in that area ?

I only ask because dirt or oil will not cause a pocket / bubble like that .  A tiny pin hole of a rusted area will though.  I would have a peek inside the trunk at the back side of the quarter where the spot was ....

[AKcharger]

Oh and of couse after you sand the area hit it with a little printer, block out then color... :-)

[AmadeusCharger500]

I did not see anything suspicious but what do I know. The metal looks clean. It is a new quarter panel. I filled the hole with the same pastic filler Ive been using for the whole project. Then I put 2 coats of primer filler spray can (just bought for this purpose) I put guide coat on and sanded it. All looked fine.


Started at 11:00, spent about 2 few hours on color coat. Long story short, no matter what I did I could still see the spot and feel it. I ever tried a new glaze filler over it, nope  I decided to start over and sand it with a larger 8 inch block. at about 5:00 and use just my trusty filler and my y2k primer filler and a larger 8 inch block. 2hours later I got it to look ok but that freakin spot does not want to level, now it looks like a depression but no bubble. Im stepping away for the day. Driving me nuts.

[AKcharger]

Huh? I See the spot. is that AFTER it was all dry? you shouldnt be able to make it out? I haven't seen that before. I wonder if anyone else has?

If there's ANY question...again if it was me...I'd grind out ALL the old filler in that spot and start again. perhaps it was a bad mix of putty to hardener?? Either way you're only working with that one spot and bondo is cheap.

Oh, and I'm sure I'm insulting you but I see you taped off a nice neat square to primer...not bad but before you spray that area need to be blocked down so you done have tape lines!

[AmadeusCharger500]

You're right, time to start over. I Just had to walk away for a bit.

[AKcharger]

smart!

My money is on uncured bondo/light hardener mix 

[AmadeusCharger500]

Its my comeback day, It worked.
Yesterday I ground it day to metal again and etched the metal before. Filler work and 3 coats of primer filler. Returned today took my time, guide coat 400 over the repair, found some flaws, more primer, sand again 400, 400 wet, then 600 over the whole panel again just to make sure no overspray drifted. Im just Stunned with the result!
Once again thank you so mucH!

[hemi-hampton]

SO, did everything work out fine? LEON.

[AKcharger]

Well done! Excited to see it buffed!

[AmadeusCharger500]

me too, my god the patience required!

ok so Im about 5 hours, yes I know im slow, into 1500 wet sanding both fenders. Wanted to know some thoughts on process.
1) Continue with 1500 and finish up the whole car before going back with 2000.
2) Finish the fenders in 2000 then move on to the doors.

[AmadeusCharger500]

Also, one would think that with so much time spent I would not have done this but its done. If I could kick myself I would. Im guessing there is no fix for this.

[AKcharger]

It's coming along well!

- I would do one panel at a time for two reasons 1) as you're learning it's a LOT of work, so it's like eatting an Elephant...one bite at a time. way too easy to get over whelmed with whole car at once 2) When done with one panel you'll have it as a "guide" to use to match the level of gloss sp whole car is uniform

- Cant see what ussue is in photo but guessing you burned through paint...no biggie, press on and use a model brush to tap paint back on it, hope it's not too big

[AmadeusCharger500]

I like that idea it makes sense to finish up what ive started so far.
as for the burn through, its not too big and its faint.  When I get to the buffing stage will it bring out the burn through worse and do I touch up after the end of buffing and polishing?

[hemi-hampton]

Myself, I usually like to do the whole car in one grit, then move on to doing the whole car in a finer grit. Then buff all at once. I've done it both ways & prefer not jumping around back & forth, better to concentrate on one thing at a time but just my opinion. as for burn threw put a small 1/4 wide piece of fine line tape over it while rubbing, this will prevent it from getting bigger. LEON.

[AKcharger]

... When I get to the buffing stage will it bring out the burn through worse and do I touch up after the end of buffing and polishing?

Not really sure, havent had that happen to me

[AmadeusCharger500]

Myself, I usually like to do the whole car in one grit, then move on to doing the whole car in a finer grit. Then buff all at once.

Thanks for the input HH that's why asked to see what people prefer and why. I think I will hit both these fended with 2000 grit before moving on and then who knows maybe just 1500 the remainder. It is a matter of focus and patience for me. Sometimes I rush and that always gets me into trouble.

[AKcharger]

Well, wasn't in my plan but I'll be following your lead on painting, so you might get a question or two as you are now and expert lol!

should be in primer by next weekend and paint mid-Nov

[AmadeusCharger500]

Ha very funny! So what's the story behind this new paint project? I see you started a new topic on primer, I might stay out of that as I'm not an expert. I just know what I did and it worked. I did not paint over my primer with a sealer, also I did wet sand it 400 and 600 with a guide coat then base and clear over that. Took heck of long time but super happy with results.

[AmadeusCharger500]

Things were going great until this. So I finished wet sanding more than half the car. In my desperate need to see some results I decided to finish the driver side fender, buff and polish. It looked Amazing.
and then this....I walked into the garage the next morning to admire my work and while running my hand along the top of the fender I find a distinct impression of a circle under the clear coat. Suspiciously in the shape of the water spray bottle I used with all of the wet sanding procedures, from primer to clear. How did I not see this in the primer wet sanding with guide coat? I guess that was just carelessness.
So Im asking this question. Is this the same fix as my original posting about the quarter panel?

[AmadeusCharger500]

Update. I found the culprit in my very own photo/video footage. So good news its not in the primer. Bad news I just 600 gritted the top of the fender in my impatience to fix this.

[Canadian1968]

Ok no biggie.  It's just in the clear coat then?

You said you just sanded with 600.  How much material do you think you have on there ? You COULD try and cut and polish it back up. But only you know how much clear you have on there .

If you don't like that idea . You have sanded already just re clear the fender if you didn't burn threw any where

[AmadeusCharger500]

Thanks. It's 3 coats clear. Maybe I'll just re clear to be safe.

[Canadian1968]

Thanks. It's 3 coats clear. Maybe I'll just re clear to be safe.

Not a bad idea..... but you don't need to put 3 coats on again.

I would put 1 coat staying about 4 inches from the boarder of the panle then a 2ND nice even coat over entire panle....and walk away

[AmadeusCharger500]

That's interesting technique, mind explaining the why behind it? I've learned so much on this sight and also from walking through my own paint job. I didnt realize the hard and fast learning about fixing mistakes and yet here I am fixing another mistake.

[Canadian1968]

The reason is that the clear coat can change the colour every so slightly . Alot of clears have a very slight amber tint to them . This is usually due to the UV resistant chemicals added to the clear . Some are worse than others .

The second is the actual amount of clear you have sitting on top of the base.  If you took two panels painted one with 2 coats of clear and the other with 4 there is a very good chance they will look different when placed next to each other on the car. Even more so with metallics like a silver or gold colour.

In your case number 2 is what I would be worried about . The other option is to completely re base the entire panle and clear like before .  But this to has potential problems. Again because it's a metallic colur , if you don't spray the base exact same way( air pressure , gun distance , speed ), it can look different . 

Now people do paint panels off all the time , but they have all their panels in the booth at the same time and it's much easier to duplicate your process when you are doing them all at the same time , one next to each other. The other part is just plain experience , it took me years to become confident in my technique to repoduce the exact same result in different situations .


Alittle more in depth then I was expecting . But when it comes to painting the more you know the better off when things go wrong !

[AmadeusCharger500]

Thank you for taking the time to share that rationale. It's so informative. This place is like a masterclass for me to learn, and the offering  up of knowledge is very much appreciated.

[AKcharger]

Sorry to hear that..huh how weird huh??? Well sounds like your on your way!
As for me I was having g a shop do the work to save me some time, it did t work out  .  Well you just did a paint job so im sure you learned a lot! And now I know not to put a spray bottle on my fender during paint/clear!!

[AmadeusCharger500]

I'm Glad I could help with that one issue it's interesting you say I learned stuff, and yes I have learned a lot. I'll just have to figure out how to put into words.

[AKcharger]

Youll be happy to know at least 3 times I was tempted to place a drink can on my fender but didn't 

[AmadeusCharger500]

Thanks for that, laughed out loud.

[Canadian1968]

Question. When that picure was taken with the water bottle . Was that during the wet sanding before buffing ?

[AmadeusCharger500]

Yes i was wet sanding the clear coat. If I had known that (looked at My own photos) upon finding the cup circle. I would not have started the process of re-clearing the top of the fender.

[AKcharger]

Hey Amadeeus how long did you wait to wet sand buff?
Tommow is the big day!

[AmadeusCharger500]

I waited a week. I know 24 hours is recommended but I didn't trust myself not to rip up the fragile clear coat. Good luck tomorrow. It's gonna be an exhausting day, I'd suggest preparing food and snacks for those moments waiting for the flash times. Also I had to keep a tally of start times for each coat. I wrote it in a notepad, otherwise I would forget.

[Canadian1968]

so that picture was taken after the clear coat had cured for a week and u started wet sanding?

I'm surprised that it left a mark after sitting that long
.

Interesting!

[AmadeusCharger500]

Im done color sanding the whole car. I just finished buff and polish on drivers side. Im super excited about the results.
However, the paint seems to pick up dust no matter how many times I wipe it , seems like my polishing cloth is just moving dust around. Not sure if there another stage I need to complete.
Do I wax it?
and if so Can I just use auto store brand wax for this?
Is waxing it even something I should be doing?

[AmadeusCharger500]

This is my favorite photo so far

[AKcharger]

Well Done! I've seen people take a photo of a $100 bill in the reflection for the "money shot" lol

A good quality wax will help avoid water spots and such, don't think it's gonna make it any better than that!


so did do 1000/1500/2000 and stop there or go higher?

[AmadeusCharger500]

I did a once pass with  1200 on dry orbital, wet 1500, 2000, 3000. I found a good wax I had stored away. That did it.

[AKcharger]

OK, that seems to have worked well. Thanks!

[hemi-hampton]

Your not suppose to wax a fresh paint job. a fresh paint job is still breathing for awhile. Most recommendations is to let any fresh paint job dry for 90 days before waxing. I'm sure others opinions will vary. LEON.

[AmadeusCharger500]

Damn, ok I waxed 2/3 of the car. I'll wait till the new year to finish.

[AKcharger]

Darn! sorry about that!!!!!  I knew about the "off-gassing" but didn't think wax would be an issue trapping it...thanks fo rcorrection HH!