Shell Rotella Warning

[Dano 1]

I started tearing into the bottom end of my 440 this week to fix my rear main leak and found tell tale signs of metal in the oil. When I put the engine in the car I put all new rod/main bearings in and hand polished/inspected the crank so I didn't think it was bearing material. I pulled the intake and wouldn't you know it about half of the lifters have been eaten away and are significantly concave. This was a higher mileage, stock, c-body 440 takeout that I did a gasket/bearing job on and dropped in to get the car on the road. I checked the cam/lifters before I put it in and everything appeared fine. When I first started it I used Shell Rotella oil as I always thought it had a high enough zinc content for flat tappet cams and I've run this stuff in my '70 Ford pickup with no ill affects for years. Needless to say it doesn't appear that the 440 tolerated it. I haven't put much run time on this engine at all but I need to pull some rod/main bearing caps and see if the bottom end is trash now as well. I wanted to pass this along as a PSA to stick with VR1/Royal Purple/Brad Penn etc. oils in our old cars.

[c00nhunterjoe]

rotella hasnt had the additives since 2005. In my opinion vr1 isnt enough either. Royal purple available on most parts store shelves are low zinc. Basically,  if it has the current api label on the bottle, it doesnt work with flat tappet cams.

[BSB67]

rotella hasnt had the additives since 2005..... if it has the current api label on the bottle, it doesnt work with flat tappet cams.

Exactly.  The Rotella did have higher zinc concentrations after most other oil makers dropped their zinc concentration.  Then they dropped it too, as required by law, but people were still aimlessly using it as if was something special.  Crazy.

That said, If i am understanding the OP's situation correctly, well worn engine/cam/valvetrain in a lo-po application and it still effected the lifters.  I'm a little surprised.

[ACUDANUT]

 I use Rislone Hy-per lube, with ZDDP supplement. I buy it from Reilly's.

[c00nhunterjoe]

For a flat tappet cam, i do not use synthetic oil. I use bradpenn with zddp additive. Roller cams i prefer lucas full synthetic

[Dano 1]

rotella hasnt had the additives since 2005..... if it has the current api label on the bottle, it doesnt work with flat tappet cams.

Exactly.  The Rotella did have higher zinc concentrations after most other oil makers dropped their zinc concentration.  Then they dropped it too, as required by law, but people were still aimlessly using it as if was something special.  Crazy.

That said, If i am understanding the OP's situation correctly, well worn engine/cam/valvetrain in a lo-po application and it still effected the lifters.  I'm a little surprised.

Noted on the Rotella, I guess I learned a hard lesson. You're correct that this was a bone stock '71 440 with ~100k miles that I dropped in. Car has driveway startup/tuning time on it and MAYBE 20 street miles.

For a flat tappet cam, i do not use synthetic oil. I use bradpenn with zddp additive. Roller cams i prefer lucas full synthetic

Funny, after I ran Rotella for startup I switched to VR1 after reading more mixed information on Rotella and since that's what I ran in my circle track car. What's the consensus on oil then? Joe I respect your opinion from your other engine posts so maybe I'll give Brad Penn a try, what Zinc additive are you running? I'm in NASCAR county so I can get Gibbs racing oil pretty readily as well. Pricey but so are cams and bearings...

[c00nhunterjoe]

Everyone has an opinion. But for flat tappets i run brad penn with a bittle of zddplus brand additive available everywhere.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-86092

[Canadian1968]

Then you can get into the discussion that you should only use oil that has been formulated with zinc / phosphorous  in it already and not use a separate additive ? There is a post I read on another forum about. Make your head spin really........

I'm currently running Castro with Lucas additive. Is it right? I don't know anymore!  But it's what the engine builder suggested.  I was thinking of going to VR1 on the next change though.

[BSB67]

Then you can get into the discussion that you should only use oil that has been formulated with zinc / phosphorous  in it already and not use a separate additive ? There is a post I read on another forum about. Make your head spin really........

I'm currently running Castro with Lucas additive. Is it right? I don't know anymore!  But it's what the engine builder suggested.  I was thinking of going to VR1 on the next change though.

I'm with you.  I simply don't know.  I would probably use an additive.  All oil starts as a base stock and "additive packages" are simply blended in.  I don't see how this is different.

Does any manufacturer make a detergent oil that has high zinc/phosphate? 

[cdr]

Then you can get into the discussion that you should only use oil that has been formulated with zinc / phosphorous  in it already and not use a separate additive ? There is a post I read on another forum about. Make your head spin really........

I'm currently running Castro with Lucas additive. Is it right? I don't know anymore!  But it's what the engine builder suggested.  I was thinking of going to VR1 on the next change though.

I'm with you.  I simply don't know.  I would probably use an additive.  All oil starts as a base stock and "additive packages" are simply blended in.  I don't see how this is different.

Does any manufacturer make a detergent oil that has high zinc/phosphate? 

I use the conventional Lucas Racing oil in my junker, & they have oil for Flat Tappet cam engines

[GreenMachine]

Are you sure you put the lifters back in the same bore they came out of? I would suspect that before I suspect the oil. I know people who have run plain modern oil in an older worn in stock flat tappet engine with no trouble.

[BSB67]

Are you sure you put the lifters back in the same bore they came out of? I would suspect that before I suspect the oil. I know people who have run plain modern oil in an older worn in stock flat tappet engine with no trouble.

Good question

[GreenMachine]

I pulled these out of an engine last week after a few beers, and now looking at how I labeled them, I'm seriously thinking about trashing them and buying a new set of lifters. You can install new lifters on an old cam, but once a lifter has been broken in, it can only be used on that cam lobe.

[Dano 1]

I did have the lifters out but I was super careful about individually bagging them and keeping them in order. I am human though so maybe I did mix them up, that would explain the wear I just could have sworn I got them right. This can be a dual lesson to just not do anything that I did, either replace your lifters if you pull them or label them like your life depends on it. Gotta learn somehow right? 

Either way if Rotella indeed doesn't have the correct additives anymore, I certainly won't be using it.

[duckmanreno]

Don't use it in my diesel, and i won't in the 383.

[ACUDANUT]

I did have the lifters out but I was super careful about individually bagging them and keeping them in order. I am human though so maybe I did mix them up, that would explain the wear I just could have sworn I got them right. This can be a dual lesson to just not do anything that I did, either replace your lifters if you pull them or label them like your life depends on it. Gotta learn somehow right? 

Either way if Rotella indeed doesn't have the correct additives anymore, I certainly won't be using it.

None of the new oils have Zinc for older engines.  If your pulling lifters out, just replace them.

[FJ571440B]

Valvoline VR1

[ACUDANUT]

 Yes, however 20w-50 is too thick imo.

[Canadian1968]

Yes, however 20w-50 is too thick imo.

My thoughts to... went looking for 10w 30 but was told that they can only get 20 50.

Wasnt sure if it would effect anything

[Dano 1]

I just got the engine back together with a new, very mild cam with new lifters and valve springs. I went with Lucas 30wt break-in oil and swapped to Lucas 20w-50 Hot Rod & Classic oil immediately after break-in with a new filter. So far so good so but we'll see how it goes.

Yes, however 20w-50 is too thick imo.

Without spiraling into an oil debate thread, what makes you say 20w-50 is too thick? I always thought/was told it was better to step up on viscosity with an older, higher mileage engine which mine is, other than the new cam. So far pressure is good and I'm in NC so a pretty warm climate. Temps are trending down a bit now so maybe I'll go with a slightly thinner oil at the next change.

[cdr]

I just got the engine back together with a new, very mild cam with new lifters and valve springs. I went with Lucas 30wt break-in oil and swapped to Lucas 20w-50 Hot Rod & Classic oil immediately after break-in with a new filter. So far so good so but we'll see how it goes.

Yes, however 20w-50 is too thick imo.

Without spiraling into an oil debate thread, what makes you say 20w-50 is too thick? I always thought/was told it was better to step up on viscosity with an older, higher mileage engine which mine is, other than the new cam. So far pressure is good and I'm in NC so a pretty warm climate. Temps are trending down a bit now so maybe I'll go with a slightly thinner oil at the next change.

Yes down here in the south SOMETIMES we need to use a heavier oil, in the summer when I use 10/30 in my 512cid & drive a long distance my engine will not have the desired 10 psi of pressure for every 1k rpm, with 20/50 all is good, but that is MY engine, they are not all the same, mine has a lot of things that require High Volume oil pump & a little heavier oil.  
Most people do not realize that Black asphalt road can be reflecting 140deg F  under the car . just a thought

[c00nhunterjoe]

Agreed on viscosity. It depends on YOUR build. Tolerances dicate the majority of the need. I run 20/50 in mine because of many factors. The valve spring pressures i run, the spray bar oiling to cool my valve springs, the big roller, it all comes together.

[cdr]

Agreed on viscosity. It depends on YOUR build. Tolerances dicate the majority of the need. I run 20/50 in mine because of many factors. The valve spring pressures i run, the spray bar oiling to cool my valve springs, the big roller, it all comes together.

YEP !!!!!

[HeavyFuel]

Yes, however 20w-50 is too thick imo.

My thoughts to... went looking for 10w 30 but was told that they can only get 20 50.

Wasnt sure if it would effect anything

"They" are lying to you.

I buy 10/30 at the local NAPA and mix two of them with three 20/50s when I change the oil.

From the Valvoline website:

20W-50 Quart 822347 0-74130-00211-1
SAE 50 Quart 822350 0-74130-00235-7
10W-30 Quart 822388 0-74130-00205-0
SAE 40 Quart 822390 0-74130-00229-6
SAE 30 Quart 822401 0-74130-00223-4
SAE 60 Quart 822403 0-74130-00241-8
20W-50 5 quart 881172 7-413003236-1

[GPULLER]

I started using this oil this year.  We shall see how it is.

https://powerdrivendiesel.com/product/conventional-15w-40-boosted-with-zddp/