The Sturgis Rally is on

[MoparMike68]

There's no way in hell the protesters didn't spread Covid but the bikers did, either they both didn't or they both did, furthermore I don't care what a foreign research group said that certainly doesn't make it fact. A lot of cities were on fire across the nation with mass looting Philadelphia didn't experience this kind of vandalism, lose of police cruisers and looting since the race riots of 1964.

How many of the those protests events have you personally visited?  

I haven't been visiting them.  So pretty much all my knowledge about them is secondhand in some way.  

I'll take foreign researchers' data-based conclusions over a bunch of crap on the US new networks.  Don't tell me CNN is agenda-pushing crap while FOX news is honest (or vice versa).  They are all corporate networks that run on people's tribalism.

This is fact I've seen it with my own eyes I don't need some foreign agency to tell me otherwise, NY same as Philadelphia.
It always makes me laugh when CNN reports from one of these war zones with fire and looting behind them and they say with a straight face that their mostly peaceful.
I don't remember this happening when a sports team lost and I'm near Philadelphia a city that has a reputation of having the meanest fans in America.
As for BLM I believe they are a domestic terrorist organization and should be dealt with as such.

These pics are from US/Canandian sports riots in recent years.  

It all looks like rioting to me.  I wouldn't want any of it happening outside my front door.  But I wouldn't want any of those fans prosecuted as terrorists either.  I fail to see how the summer protests are so different from this.  

I've listed two Philadelphia and NY the others I gathered from various different sources I don't get information from televised news
alone to base an opinion or fact. The two are indeed fact. I've never mentioned Fox News in my statement those are your words.
The pictures you posted are, like you said "not in your back yard" or mine and were isolated and quickly shut down I'm sure and
I agree their crime is vandalism. Furthermore what part of "across the nation" was confusing to you? The entire country doesn't riot
when the dodgers lose.
However the riots were not, they were designed to attack the police, intimidate innocent residents and destroy property to further
an agenda that states if your not with us we burn it down that's the difference and should be prosecuted as such.

[Mike DC]

I've listed two Philadelphia and NY the others I gathered from various different sources I don't get information from televised news
alone to base an opinion or fact. The two are indeed fact. I've never mentioned Fox News in my statement those are your words.

I didn't mean the FOX news thing as a personal insult.  I just find that very few people go without watching cable news (one side or the other).  Most people watch their preferred side and tell themselves "I know when they're being biased."  

The pictures you posted are, like you said "not in your back yard" or mine and were isolated and quickly shut down I'm sure and
I agree their crime is vandalism. Furthermore what part of "across the nation" was confusing to you? The entire country doesn't riot
when the dodgers lose.

"and were isolated and quicky shut down" is not much of an argument IMO.  Sorta like "he only raped that woman for a few minutes."  

I would agree that the Portland & Seattle situations have been longer & messier than usual.  But IMO that has less to do with BLM and more to do with the fact that it's Portland & Seattle.  Before BLM they were periodically rioting for other reasons.  Same areas, same tactics.  It's in the news again every few years.  Whereas the vast majority of BLM protests did not produce that kind of thing.  IMO it's a pacific northwest city problem more than a BLM problem.  

However the riots were not, they were designed to attack the police, intimidate innocent residents and destroy property to further
an agenda that states if your not with us we burn it down that's the difference and should be prosecuted as such.

1st amendment.  Enforcement/punishment should not vary based on the violators' beliefs.  If you agree with this most of the time except in certain cases, then you don't agree with it.

I personally don't agree with the concept of "hate crimes" for the same reason.  It's a very PC concept these days but it boils down to punishing some beliefs more than others.  


As for BLM protesters engaging in mafia tactics . . . I doubt an (honest) investigation would produce anything substantial.  Maybe a handful of individuals are guilty of something but I doubt they would find any widespread habit in the group/organization.    

As for them threatening people in general for not being on their side?  Consider the sports riot comparison again - try painting the opposing team's logo on your storefront during a riot and see what happens.  Heavy tribalism is normal for these scenes.  

[kent]

Those picture of Vancouver.

Well guys that was the only day of my life I was not proud to be a Canadian. I hung my head low that morning when I seen what went on that night. Truly a WTF moment. That's all I have to say.
Oh yes

Sorry. lol

I am CANADIAN

[MoparMike68]

Since it came up.  I'll pipe in.  I support BLM (and I don't mean bureau of land management but I don't have an issue with them either).  I'm not part of a domestic terrorist group.  The statement is simple.  It doesn't mean other lives don't matter.  It just means that black lives matter.  I live in a community with black people and I don't see any issues with supporting something that says they shouldn't be killed.  I also have a recent student who is black.  He is pulled over more than I ever was. There is a difference in the way he has been treated compared to me.  I recognize this and see it as an extension to the peaceful side of this movement.    

Although the message of the movement is intended to be a positive one the organization is not.  The idea of defund
the police does 0 for communities of color. The fact is when police aren't present crime goes up leaving innocent people
at risk like your student.
In fact all the money donated from large corporations intended for the advancement of minorities and their respective communities
Were funneled into Act Blue an organization that raises money to fund democratic candidates and their campaigns and yes
even Biden the one who wrote the 1994 crime bill, it is often blamed for extending tough on crime policies that overly
criminalized black Americans.

[Mike DC]

Those picture of Vancouver.

Well guys that was the only day of my life I was not proud to be a Canadian. I hung my head low that morning when I seen what went on that night. Truly a WTF moment. That's all I have to say.
Oh yes

Sorry. lol

I am CANADIAN

Hey, we Americans don't exactly have room to point fingers.  

-------------------------------------------------

The fact is when police aren't present crime goes up leaving innocent people
at risk like your student.

Sometimes, maybe the majority of the time.  But not always.  

The NYPD went on (the police equivalent of) a strike in 2014 for seven weeks.  Crime definitely went down in that period.  

https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-proactive-policing-crime-20170925-story.html

That's just one example.  On the other hand it's the biggest department in the country (35,000 in uniform) and the strike went on for almost two months.  I wouldn't brush off that result as a fluke.  

[odcics2]

See? Biden was tough on crime while Trump was still a staunch, lifelong, Democrat.  
Wonder how many abortions Trump paid for in his life?  
And he gave hundreds of thousands to get his friend, Bill Clinton, elected!

Guess folks easily forget the past.      

[greycharger]

It was proven long ago that uniforms increased the likelihood of a protest becoming violent. There have been a number of studies showing that when plain clothes police circulate in a protest, there is less violence, even if arrests are made.

[MoparMike68]

Quote,
Crime definitely went down in that period

My point is simply that we don't know what the shock actually tells us because we don't have a detailed understanding of what the police were doing," Weisburd wrote. his words

Even if this were accurate they were complaints 3% -6% really?

[MoparMike68]

See? Biden was tough on crime while Trump was still a staunch, lifelong, Democrat.  
Wonder how many abortions Trump paid for in his life?  
And he gave hundreds of thousands to get his friend, Bill Clinton, elected!

Guess folks easily forget the past.      

TDS much?

[odcics2]

I'm not brainwashed.

[greycharger]

See? Biden was tough on crime while Trump was still a staunch, lifelong, Democrat.  
Wonder how many abortions Trump paid for in his life?  
And he gave hundreds of thousands to get his friend, Bill Clinton, elected!

Guess folks easily forget the past.      

TDS much?

Debate much?   If he incorrect, then prove it. Don't dissemble as trump might. Prove it.

[Mike DC]

My point is simply that we don't know what the shock actually tells us because we don't have a detailed understanding of what the police were doing," Weisburd wrote. his words

Even if this were accurate they were complaints 3% -6% really?

The police were publicly on strike.  Why the hell wasn't crime up by 20% or more?  Two months isn't like two days.  The public had time to get used to the reduced policing.  The thugs & crooks who don't pay attention to politics & news would have time to notice the real-world difference.   Etc. 

It's already a remarkable outcome if the crime rate stayed perfectly flat. IMO it would be enough to rank as 'surprising' if crime had gone up by only 5%.  The whole point of the strike was to demonstrate that the city needed the NYPD at full strength to be safe.  It failed.  

[XH29N0G]

That is surprising. 

[MoparMike68]

Quote,The police were publicly on strike.

The police weren't really on strike they can't strike by law. They can say it but they can't actually do it.
The areas that were destroyed, in those situations the elected officials had instructed them to stand down.
I don't know about you but that's not the country I want to live in. E.g. CHAZ/CHOP.
BTW without throwing fuel on the fire has anyone seen the revised CDC fatality numbers?

[Mike DC]

 

Quote,The police were publicly on strike.

The police weren't really on strike they can't strike by law. They can say it but they can't actually do it.
The areas that were destroyed, in those situations the elected officials had instructed them to stand down.
I don't know about you but that's not the country I want to live in. E.g. CHAZ/CHOP.
BTW without throwing fuel on the fire has anyone seen the revised CDC numbers

They cannot "strike."  But they can reduce their response to the bare minimum and make a big public show of declaring it.  Which is what they did.  


Suppose that NYPD strike in 2014 never happened.  Then suppose BLM was calling for a two-month "stand down to bare minimum enforcement" in NYC right now, and the politicians agreed to do it.  Imagine the reactions to this.  The police & many people would declare that NYC crime is going to skyrocket.  They wouldn't even think it was debatable.  They would be mocking other people for even questioning that foregone conclusion.    


No matter how you stack it, the result of the NYPD strike was pretty surprising.

And again, I'm not saying it would work that way in every US city.  I'm just saying it's an important finding.  It may apply to some other places.  We don't know.  But when conventional wisdom is proven flat-out wrong (and on a very large sample size), the issue bears more study.    

[MoparMike68]

The LA Times can sample their own state...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tncba5hDQeI

[Mike DC]

          

The LA Times can sample their own state...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tncba5hDQeI

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/san-francisco-shoplifting-video/    

What happened was that Cali raised the threshold between misdemeanor vs felony from $450 up to $950.  Nothing else.  There is no stand-down order against shoplifting laws.


And that's perfectly reasonable IMO.  $450 is nothing these days.  It buys 2 or 3 slashed tires or busted mailboxes.  
       

[XH29N0G]

I vote we let this topic rest a bit and move back to cars. 

[Mike DC]

Fine by me. 

[MoparMike68]

         

The LA Times can sample their own state...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tncba5hDQeI

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/san-francisco-shoplifting-video/    

What happened was that Cali raised the threshold between misdemeanor vs felony from $450 up to $950.  Nothing else.  There is no stand-down order against shoplifting laws.


And that's perfectly reasonable IMO.  $450 is nothing these days.  It buys 2 or 3 slashed tires or busted mailboxes.  
       

The shoplifters involved might have believed there was a stand down order they were never caught.
Another take from the video is that the employee instructed her coworker to call the police, without that option do they go free
because it's only a couple of tires and a mailbox? Or do the employees get involved to stop it which in most cases doesn't end well.
It's unfortunate but necessary that the police have to waste resources on crimes like these because if it were a social worker trying
to stop this one of those thieves may just turn around and shoot or knife them, that's the reality.

[odcics2]

10-24-2020

https://www.wxyz.com/news/national/coronavirus/us-sets-new-peak-of-covid-19-cases

Midwest, Plains states taking a hit. 

[XH29N0G]

I still vote to focus on cars and leave the topics in this thread to rest.  

I recognize that there are other issues we might discuss, but for me, the focus on chargers among people who largely keep their opinions to themselves is what makes  this forum enjoyable.

[greycharger]

The daily loss of the Greatest Generation with their self sacrifice, respect for fellow Americans, and common sense leaves a gaping hole in the American Experiment. They wouldn't need orders from the Government to do the right thing. They didn't whine about impositions, they just hunkered down and pulled harder.

[AKcharger]

yeah, I'd rather talk about car stuff I SICK of Politics.

Well no better way to lock it up than turn it into a chick thread...here we go! (MODS do your stuff)

[AKcharger]

What! not locked yet! well OK...