22" vs 26" Radiator Question:

[Captain D]

Hello all,

My 69' Charger doesn't overheat by any means, but at idle or slower speeds I wouldn't mind seeing if I could do all I could to help keep it as cool as possible as the temp, of course, naturally creeps up some. I realize that upgrading from a 22" to a 26" may not be ideal because I would need a wider modified opening in the radiator mounting support bracket to 26" in order to accommodate that air flow.

But just for the sake of asking because my wiring won't allow for an electric fan upgrade: say I upgraded from a 22" to a 26" aluminum radiator / shroud combo *without* the radiator mounting bracket widened (way too much modification). Yes, I realize no air-flow for those additional inches on the sides & the results may be negligible. But, what I am wondering is...with a wider radiator (and more coolant present), would the extra coolant in the new 26" radiator take longer to actually heat up & therefore help to keep the motor, trans, etc. cooler longer than the 22"? Again, I realize that it's probably not worthwhile, but for those (if any) who may have done this - what were the results that you found and what aluminum radiator did you choose to run with or which radiator may work best if someone were to do it?

What got me thinking about this were a few pics of a stunt GL Charger that had a big block under the hood & it had a 26" radiator. If it wasn't factory, then I would suspect that the film crew more than likely didn't take the time to modify the 22" radiator mounting support bracket to accommodate the 26" radiator. And, the observation that they used a 26" radiator for better cooling qualities makes one wonder if there is any grain of truth behind this concept.  

Thanks for looking, sharing experiences, & taking a look at the pics...  

[Captain D]

Pic #1 (Granted, they don't have a shroud, but I would on mine):

[Captain D]

Pic #2:

[JB400]

If you're not planning on opening up the radiator core support for additional airflow, and are just looking for volume, why not just add an expansion tank, like the current model cars have?

[70 sublime]

What makes you think the hole for the rad to breath through was not made as wide as the rad in that picture ?
It looks like they have placed a screen in front of the rad as wide as the rad so I would guess the hole is the same size as the screen
If they were hacking up the body to get the roll bar stuff in it would not have been hard to make the rad hole wider when they were at it

[Captain D]

I'll look into the expansion tank - thanks! As for the radiator mounting bracket, I wouldn't know - only that I would "suspect" seeing how Hollywood is...

[c00nhunterjoe]

Many people that are not worried about appearance, cut out the opening to accommodate the 26" radiator. It rough and ugly, but functional

[c00nhunterjoe]

Before i cut up a core support, i would convert from a downflow to a crossflow radiator

[Captain D]

Thanks man, yeah I believe my Champion radiator is a cross flow. Too bad we can't get a return overflow expansion tank. I did a quick search & had seen aluminum tanks that help to cool it. Even if it was off a Ford, GM, etc., I'd still use it, ...

[jlatessa]

As an aside, don't think that opening up the passenger side
bulkhead the extra 4 inches will work.

Both sides of a factory 26" bulkhead are different, at least on our 70.
If you do one side only, the rad will be not centered in front of the engine,
leading to the factory shroud hitting the original sized fan.

DAMHIK.....Joe

[b5blue]

Many like this and if I need to replace mine I'll use: http://www.speedcooling.com/22-Mopar-BIG-BLOCK-HD-Aluminum-Radiator.html  (Read the entire page.)

[JB400]

A good explanation on expansion tanks and overflow tanks:

https://www.mishimoto.com/engineering/2019/05/tech-coolant-tanks/

Another good read:

http://blog.cantonracingproducts.com/blog/setting_up_your_cooling_system_expansion_vs_recovery

[jlatessa]

I have a question that I've wondered about regarding radiators.

I've always been under the impression that you can pressurize both liquids and gasses,
but liquids do not expand whereas gasses will.

Soooo, what causes the expansion in our cooling systems?
Is is there always some air trapped in the system somewhere or does the heat generated
near the hot spots in the heads cause percolation?

So then the question follows; where is the recovered fluid in the overflow tank going to in the
cooling system??

I hope someone's explanation doesn't make me feel like a dolt....LOL

Joe

[b5blue]

  Pressure is created by heating the fluid. The boiling point of the fluid is higher under pressure. Hence boiling point varies and the system reacts by temp.
Now lets no forget that coolant you can buy that is non corrosive and uses no pressure. (I can't recall the name?)   

[Captain D]

It's certainly been an interesting thread - have learned (am learning) a lot...

Looks like I'm leaning towards an aluminum overflow tank, or perhaps the recirculating option on the tank. I found this one from Jegs that utilizes both features / options if I can run with it. I'll give em' a call:

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/51137/10002/-1#reviewTab

[jlatessa]

I found out the answer.....

I was mistaken on the properties of fluids.
They won't compress, but they will surely expand.

High school Physic was 61 years ago for me, some brain cells
must have departed...LOL

Thanks, Joe

[Challenger340]

I'm wondering on the size of the Engine/other factors as per application/heat load ?

just saying here....
it's important to remember just for example..... a '493' Engine is 53 cubic inches bigger than a 440 Engine, or potentially an increase of 12% cooling capacity required ?   same as others factors like reduced airflow through the Rad of placing an AC Condensor in front of it ?
and then there are things like Headers which tend to increase underhood temps with greater sufaces areas than hp Manifolds......
and lastly....
nobody ever considers the cooling effects of airflow UP and AROUND the Engine in the Engine Bay which WAS definitely an Engineering consideration when these cars were made.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming, apologies for the hijack

[69CoronetRT]

I have an original 053 radiator in my 440 automatic 69 Coronet R/T. Glen Ray rebuilt it. I run 170 on the road and creep up to 190 in town.  So the rebuilt 22" works fine for me. No hacking, no new radiator no mess and looks stock.

[Challenger340]

I have an original 053 radiator in my 440 automatic 69 Coronet R/T. Glen Ray rebuilt it. I run 170 on the road and creep up to 190 in town.  So the rebuilt 22" works fine for me. No hacking, no new radiator no mess and looks stock.

Same here, our '69 R/T SE 440/auto with the factory 22" works great... never gets too hot, even had it down in Vegas sitting in bumper to bumper traffic no problems. I mean it will creep up a bit but still well within range.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I have an original 053 radiator in my 440 automatic 69 Coronet R/T. Glen Ray rebuilt it. I run 170 on the road and creep up to 190 in town.  So the rebuilt 22" works fine for me. No hacking, no new radiator no mess and looks stock.

Same here, our '69 R/T SE 440/auto with the factory 22" works great... never gets too hot, even had it down in Vegas sitting in bumper to bumper traffic no problems. I mean it will creep up a bit but still well within range.

And my .060 over 440 with a filled block runs cool in 100 degree heat on a 22" radiator as well.

[Captain D]

I wonder how big (or small) the catch can is to be for a 383 BB.

Sure, a polished can looks nice, but if I purchase a recirculating unit as my primary aim, I wonder if it is too big or too small. For a cruiser, this size may be enough, but I'm unsure:

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/51136/10002/-1#reviewTab

[b5blue]

You can "test" with a coffee can, just keep the hose end at the bottom so it stays submerged. 

[70 sublime]

Why do you guys think you need the over flow can anyways ?
Factory never had them

My car is a 383
I used to think I needed to keep the rad full right up to the cap
It would always puke over
Then I just kept an eye on it
Now when I take the rad cap off and look in the tank at the top of the rad the fluid is at about half the depth of the tank and has not changed all summer

[Captain D]

My current overflow tank (rather bug & clunky in which I'm looking to free up some room under there) looks to have just a small amount of coolant in it at cold start. I'll have to take the car for a spin to see how much it expands into the tank when hot for comparison...

[Captain D]

This one has me curious because of the line running off from the side (vs underneath) at the base of the tank ~ making a potential decent recirculating tank overall...

I suppose the key is to try & mount it as level to the radiator as possible (vs mounting it too low) to enable it to draw back into the radiator more easily, perhaps...

[A383Wing]

As an aside, don't think that opening up the passenger side
bulkhead the extra 4 inches will work.

Both sides of a factory 26" bulkhead are different, at least on our 70.
If you do one side only, the rad will be not centered in front of the engine,
leading to the factory shroud hitting the original sized fan.

DAMHIK.....Joe

my 70 had a 22" radiator....I got an aluminum 26" one and it bolted right in on the drivers side, uses the same mounting bolt holes. All I had to do was open up the passenger side core support and make two new mounting holes for the radiator mounting bolts. New fan shroud bolted right up to the new radiator and the fan sits perfectly in the shroud.

Bryan