Air shocks, the good, the bad and the ugly?

[lloyd3]

I used'em back in the day but I've seen issues created by their use (mostly broken welds on the tops of the shock mounts). In order to fit more-substantial rubber under the backs of these types of cars, they were the quick-fix of the period.  My spring packs are the correct extra-leaf set for an R/T but....they're almost getting to the point where I'd consider having them re-arced (if that's the proper term for it) and I'm guessing if I go with wider-than-stock rims and tires I'll be fighting with some contact on the interior of the wheel-wells if I don't do something to enhance the clearances down there. I really don't want to alter the ride or handling very much at all and I clearly don't want to screw with the stance any more than I have to.

Any suggestions from the brethren here?

[RallyeMike]

The good: You can level your car when you tow your boat.
The bad: They transfer more load up high and center and ride crappy.
The ugly: What they can do to your shock mounts over time if you run them with a lot of pressure.

You can get much wider tire in there than you have now with a properly back-spaced wheel.

[lloyd3]

RallyeMike: I'd very much like to maintain the otherwise stock appearance so... I'm pretty much stuck with Magnum 500s. I'm hoping the 14 x 7 inch units I found have the requisite back-spacing for what I'm attempting.

[cdr]

I have them on my 68, run 40lbs in them to get about 1/2 in in height, all the horror stories about broken upper mounts can happen when running LOTS of air pressure to make room for n50 15's tires, LOL, if the shocks are used from 20 to 60 lbs I dont think it will cause damage, I drive & race my car a lot, all is good, also the Monroe air shocks can be run with little to no air & it wont damage the shock seal , the other brands will become junk if run without air. picture from when I did a gear change.

[70 sublime]

I had a 68 Charger with air shocks in it when I bought it
The upper cross member they fasten to was broken off at both ends where it was attached to the frame rails
Was a big dent in the top of the floor hump I could see inside the trunk
That Charger had a rough life before I got it

[RallyeMike]

RallyeMike: I'd very much like to maintain the otherwise stock appearance so... I'm pretty much stuck with Magnum 500s. I'm hoping the 14 x 7 inch units I found have the requisite back-spacing for what I'm attempting.

Assuming you are buying street tires, not much is available in 14" like there was back in the day. I doubt you can even find a wide enough or tall enough tire to cause any kind of rubbing issue on a 14x7 Magnum. So the air shock question probably just comes down to if you want to make up for spring sag, or fix the springs.

Looking forward to seeing the new shoes.

[RiverRaider]

The times I have seen people have breakage was with the shocks pumped up to the point of little or no suspension travel.
I run 32 PSI with 15" 295's and 36 PSI with 15" N-50s. This keeps the N-50s from rubbing most of the time.  On my car that's the pressure that gets the rake I want.  If I am going on a rough road or a show field I will increase to 40 psi.  The shocks I use are not B-Body shocks they are for Chrysler I believe the set on right now are Imperial.  The shocks are about 2" longer on the collapsed and extended lengths.   If you google air shock charts they show the installed, extended and collapsed lengths.  At times new old stock Chrysler/Imperial air shock are sometimes a lot less expensive than the B-Body ones.  I found that the use of the longer shocks reduced required PSI and gave me the softer ride at the height I want.

[c00nhunterjoe]

How much tire do you need? Im running low 10s on a 9 inch wide tire that is 30 inches tall on legitimate bone stock suspension with no rubbing. I never understood the air shock craze.

[sccachallenger]

Had them back in the late '70s on my daily-driver Challenger.
I had separate air lines for each, hoping to bias the suspension to improve traction.
But yeah, on a daily driver you will tear out the shock mounting x member, I did on the passenger side.
Now my daily commute included some rough, pot-holed roads.
These cars aren't daily drivers anymore so you might get away with it.
I think during a resto, I'd seam-weld the crossmember and fabricate some gussets if I was gonna run 'em.
Personally I'd not run them on any unibody Mopar!
Mine wasn't very high, i had 15x7 Rallyes with G6015s, so clearances wasn't an issue.
I had a '73 Challenger that the whole crossmember had been booger-welded back in, not pretty!

[70 sublime]

If you need more height why not just get some longer shackles for the back spring mounts ? 

[b5blue]

Agreed use shackles if needed, shocks dampen not support. The shocks fixing points are not placed or built for extra stresses. 

[RiverRaider]

It has nothing to do with performance or need lol. Air shocks provide flexibility because from time to time I haul stuff in the trunk drive and drive on less than desired surfaces.  I like the 80's, day 2 or whatever people call it look on my 70. The car is not restored so the old school look lets it stand out next to nice cars.  It has the silver fox fake fur on the package tray, blacked out engine bay, DC chrome valve covers, air shocks, mud flaps, bias ply N-50 rear and G-60 front Mickey Thompson Indy Profile tires on American Racing 200's daisy wheels old ones not the new type along with the bullet left and right hand lug nuts.  The 10.5" daisy wheel backspacing and the width of the N-50 put the edge of the tire under the lip of the quarter panel.  I do run radial 295/50 235/60 Mickeys on Halibrand type wheels if I plan to drive a longer distance just a better ride. Some days it looks red some days orange which I also like.  I never liked shackles, shock extenders, or coils over shocks not because they worked or not just cause back in my youth that's what the chevy guys did.

[RiverRaider]

radial vs bias

[RiverRaider]

width

[Mike DC]

   

I never liked shackles, shock extenders, or coils over shocks not because they worked or not just cause back in my youth that's what the chevy guys did.

Longer shackles can look cool on Mopars too . . .

[cdr]

LMAO !!!! I have sliders ,,no Shackles on my junk

[RiverRaider]

I had shackles on my stock cars.

Nice, I put sliders on a Road Runner years ago after I got caught with them and Landrum mono leaves on a stockcar.  Are those composite or metal leaf springs?

[cdr]

I had shackles on my stock cars.

Nice, I put sliders on a Road Runner years ago after I got caught with them and Landrum mono leaves on a stockcar.  Are those composite or metal leaf springs?

Steel, Caltrac split mono leafs

[c00nhunterjoe]

Purchase the correct wheels and a 10 inch rim with  12 inch tires will clear.  I haul coolers, car show chairs, extra fuel, and 2 teenagers in the backseat of mine.

[justcruisin]

How do the split mono's and caltracs ride on the street with the solid bushing?

[c00nhunterjoe]

It has nothing to do with performance or need lol. Air shocks provide flexibility because from time to time I haul stuff in the trunk drive and drive on less than desired surfaces.  I like the 80's, day 2 or whatever people call it look on my 70. The car is not restored so the old school look lets it stand out next to nice cars.  It has the silver fox fake fur on the package tray, blacked out engine bay, DC chrome valve covers, air shocks, mud flaps, bias ply N-50 rear and G-60 front Mickey Thompson Indy Profile tires on American Racing 200's daisy wheels old ones not the new type along with the bullet left and right hand lug nuts.  The 10.5" daisy wheel backspacing and the width of the N-50 put the edge of the tire under the lip of the quarter panel.  I do run radial 295/50 235/60 Mickeys on Halibrand type wheels if I plan to drive a longer distance just a better ride. Some days it looks red some days orange which I also like.  I never liked shackles, shock extenders, or coils over shocks not because they worked or not just cause back in my youth that's what the chevy guys did.

If you are doing it simply to stick the ass up in the air, then thats another story. 295s on the correct rim will have ample clearance without air shocks.

[c00nhunterjoe]

How do the split mono's and caltracs ride on the street with the solid bushing?

In my neighborhood the caltrac setup is on at least a dozen daily driven 9 second cars. I have noticed no difference in them. The setup will be on my 69 once i have achieved my lowest et on stock suspension. The goal was 9.99 on stock parts but i dont see it happeneing. But thats another story

[cdr]

How do the split mono's and caltracs ride on the street with the solid bushing?

In my neighborhood the caltrac setup is on at least a dozen daily driven 9 second cars. I have noticed no difference in them. The setup will be on my 69 once i have achieved my lowest et on stock suspension. The goal was 9.99 on stock parts but i dont see it happeneing. But thats another story

My car rides like a R/T Charger, SMOOTH as glass , that said I also have a LARGE front sway bar & a medium rear one. over 10k miles on the Caltracs

[Kern Dog]

If you need more height why not just get some longer shackles for the back spring mounts ? 

Don't do this. Just don't.
It looks terrible, reduces stability and alters the pinion angle.

[stripedelete]

Not a fan of the longer shackles either.   But I really want to know where you can find 14 inch tires that could make you concenerned about clearance.

[Kern Dog]

I thought he mentioned that the rear was sagging a bit.

[b5blue]

Yea the fix is new rear springs but....

[RiverRaider]

   But I really want to know where you can find 14 inch tires that could make you concenerned about clearance.

Outside of drag/street tires I think Coker re pops Pro tracs in N-50 and other wide tires.  Not many Mickey Thompson sportsmans left on the shelves. 
I bought up the last of the NOS Indy Profiles that I could find a couple years ago.  They were still easier to find than 10"+ 200 s wheels though.

[HANDM]

Why not install a set of air bags or springs instead?

I installed bags on my 97 Ram after years of overloading, the springs were looking like a handlebar mustache. I keep em just filled enough to level it out and the ride is perfect.

I also installed a cheap set of coil springs that bolted to the axle and sat right under the rebound bumper on my Cuda and they woked just the same as the air bags and stayed on untill I sold it several years ago.

[Mike DC]

          
Meh.  Just get some helper leafs and be done with it.  


Yeah, helper leafs are ghetto.  So are air shocks, air springs, coilovers, and shackles.  Everything besides new/re-arched leafs is a band-aid.   You might as well use a band-aid that doesn't abuse the shock crossmember.  

[c00nhunterjoe]

         
Meh.  Just get some helper leafs and be done with it.  


Yeah, helper leafs are ghetto.  So are air shocks, air springs, coilovers, and shackles.  Everything besides new/re-arched leafs is a band-aid.   You might as well use a band-aid that doesn't abuse the shock crossmember.  

Those pictured helper springs were top choice for the general lees during filming lol.

[cdr]

         
Meh.  Just get some helper leafs and be done with it.  


Yeah, helper leafs are ghetto.  So are air shocks, air springs, coilovers, and shackles.  Everything besides new/re-arched leafs is a band-aid.   You might as well use a band-aid that doesn't abuse the shock crossmember.  

Yeah my car is pretty ghetto, want to race LOL

[Mike DC]

  

Yeah my car is pretty ghetto, want to race LOL

Are you using other stiffeners just because you don't want to pay for new OEM leaf springs?  Probably not.  


I'm not trying to get on a high horse about anything here.  Sometimes one man's "ghetto fix" on the street is another man's "tuning method" on the track.      


Look at the OEM left/right bias in the R/T leaf springs.  That was a ghetto fix from the factory.  It still got the job done.    

[hemi-hampton]

I used them on my car, Same ones that been on there since the 1970's.

[c00nhunterjoe]

         
Meh.  Just get some helper leafs and be done with it.  


Yeah, helper leafs are ghetto.  So are air shocks, air springs, coilovers, and shackles.  Everything besides new/re-arched leafs is a band-aid.   You might as well use a band-aid that doesn't abuse the shock crossmember.  

Yeah my car is pretty ghetto, want to race LOL

Im down. Lets do it. Stock springs and a 9" wide tire, pump gas now. Would love to line up against you.

[cdr]

         
Meh.  Just get some helper leafs and be done with it.  


Yeah, helper leafs are ghetto.  So are air shocks, air springs, coilovers, and shackles.  Everything besides new/re-arched leafs is a band-aid.   You might as well use a band-aid that doesn't abuse the shock crossmember.  

Yeah my car is pretty ghetto, want to race LOL

Im down. Lets do it. Stock springs and a 9" wide tire, pump gas now. Would love to line up against you.

Would be fun !!! I am ready any time,

[cdr]

 

Yeah my car is pretty ghetto, want to race LOL

Are you using other stiffeners just because you don't want to pay for new OEM leaf springs?  Probably not.  


I'm not trying to get on a high horse about anything here.  Sometimes one man's "ghetto fix" on the street is another man's "tuning method" on the track.      


Look at the OEM left/right bias in the R/T leaf springs.  That was a ghetto fix from the factory.  It still got the job done.    

The springs I have are Caltrac split mono leafs, they work with their bars, when at the track the shocks have no air in them, street driving I need the springs a little stiffer for big bumps in the road, a little air in the shocks & problem solved, I need double adjustable coil overs but they are about $600 so the $50.00 air shocks will work for now.

[odcics2]

If you need more height why not just get some longer shackles for the back spring mounts ? 

Don't do this. Just don't.
It looks terrible, reduces stability and alters the pinion angle.

What he said.

[lloyd3]

Growing up in "Hillbilly Hell" allowed for me to experience shackle extensions in a very up-close and personal way and... I'm fairly certain that they have all of the detrimental effects on handling and a drive-line that have already been listed here. While I'm sure there are exceptions, it's not likely that I'd be tempted to go that route. While my car's present factory-stock set-up is probably getting a bit tired (@ around 125K miles now) it is hardly to the point of "sagging".  The psychology of owning one of these cars is a funny thing.  After owning it for a while (which can be a long while for some of us!) you stop seeing what is correct and start seeing only what 'isn't" or... perhaps only seeing the inevitable products of age and use. That can have the curious effect of causing what can only be described as an almost obsessive-compulsive form of behavior.  Ignoring the artistic and perhaps now-iconic elements involved, these cars were mass-produced, relatively common, and fairly-inexpensive consumable items.  That all seems to be forgotten after a financially (and otherwise) all-consuming restoration when parking it or washing it or even driving it in heavy traffic. One can get pretty defensive and even downright "fussy"... which seems a little silly when you actually think about it when it's sitting under a cover in your garage. Now...some of that behavior can be justified by the economic realities we're all currently experiencing, as the values of these cars continue to climb and the costs of repair become simply astronomical. Some parts are becoming extremely scarce, with even the re-pops getting harder to find or use.  I'm sure there is a natural limit to all of that, but we don't seem to have found it just yet.  My goal here is to replace a set of tires and wheels that are excessively old and limiting now (20-plus years and on 5 1/2-inch wide rims). The seemingly common solution has been to go with 15-inch aftermarket rims and then shop the plethora of tire options that clearly allows.  As it now seems to be my usual, I'm more focused on keeping it as close to original as the folks at Hamtramck produced it back in July of '68, with at-least wider but otherwise good copies of the 14-inch Magnum 500 rims it came with. From what I now understand from my reading (here and elsewhere), my tire options are extremely limited (mostly just BF Goodrich T/A Radials?) and in sizes that my fender-wells should easily swallow (the biggest being 245 60 R-14s).  If I need to buy a little more space under the car to keep things properly cleared I'll go ahead and secure some air shocks, otherwise I'll try to avoid that or any other modification of the way things were when Ma Mopar produced it.

[c00nhunterjoe]

235/6014 and 245/6014 are readily available in multiple brands and if either require air shocks on a charger, you have problems.

[c00nhunterjoe]

         
Meh.  Just get some helper leafs and be done with it.  


Yeah, helper leafs are ghetto.  So are air shocks, air springs, coilovers, and shackles.  Everything besides new/re-arched leafs is a band-aid.   You might as well use a band-aid that doesn't abuse the shock crossmember.  

Yeah my car is pretty ghetto, want to race LOL

Im down. Lets do it. Stock springs and a 9" wide tire, pump gas now. Would love to line up against you.

Would be fun !!! I am ready any time,

Cecil county drag way. 1916 theodore road. Rising sun maryland. 21911.  Call me when you are ready and im there for a private track day.

[Kern Dog]

235/6014 and 245/6014 are readily available in multiple brands and if either require air shocks on a charger, you have problems.

I agree. Even with the stupid design of the outer wheelhouse....