Electric fan wiring not working..pulled last hair out

[comet_666]

I bought the 16-inch Flex-Wave™ LoBoy Auxiliary Electric Fan (pusher) and am trying to wire it in with the MSD 89617 30A fan harness / relay and the flex a lite 31148 aux switch. Green light on switch pops on, gets hot and fan does not come on, its driving me crazy and I need a fresh set of eyes on this. any help would be wonderful. Attached are the instructions for both.
Wiring is as follows...
- on the fan for pusher to the blue 12 ga wire
+ fan wire to headlight harness body ground
gray 18ga to my headlight harness body ground
red 10ga to aux terminal on circuit breaker
+ on battery to bat terminal on circuit breaker
yellow 18 ga to #1 terminal on the flex a lite switch
18ga wire to dashboard for ground on terminal 2 of flex a lite switch
14 ga wire from starter relay + to terminal 3 on flex a lite switch

[dual fours]

Is the engine running? Is it possible some electric fans will not run if the engine is not running. You did jump only the fan wires to make sure that the fan does run when energized?
If you have no metal ends/terminals on the fan's  (+) and (-) wires to attach alligator clips to, stick a pin though what you have as the positive (+) wire and fasten to (+) battery and then ground the other wire. Fan should run.

[comet_666]

Engine running yes.
i did not jump the fan wires, not sure how to do that really, power and ground?

[dual fours]

If you have no metal ends/terminals on the fan's  (+) and (-) wires to attach alligator clips to, stick a pin though what you have as the positive (+) wire and fasten to (+) battery and then ground the other wire. Fan should run.

From the fan, looks like you have a terminal on BLACK and on BLUE. Looks like you either switch the BLACK and BLUE wires (positive and ground) to make it a PUSHER or PULLER fan.
From the fan, one wire to Battery positive and one wire to ground, BE CAREFUL THE FAN SHOULD RUN .

[comet_666]

I will try to rig something up today to test this. Thank you for your help!

[b5blue]

   I was thinking the fan pulled your hair out!    1st look close at the relay and be certain you know what pin positions are doing for what relay function.
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html The pins are numbered. Here you can learn wiring and wire sizing and much more if you look around. http://www.bcae1.com/    I have that fan pushing (In front of A/C condenser.) and for the power draw it moves air well.  
Make a jumper for 12V+ off battery and by grounding one fan wire and 12V+ jumping the other you will find the fan runs clockwise or anticlockwise. The only reason a switch needs a ground is for an internal light, possibly to show it's on. A relay needs a ground just for it's coil to work.

[comet_666]

it seems the relay only goes into it's socket 1 way.
I prob should have tested fan before I wired it up...

[Nacho-RT74]

HONESTLY there are some stuff here I don't get.

what you wired ( per your description ) doesn't match the diagram

and on second pic, I don't get the aux switch getting 12 volts if fan is activated PER THAT PIC DIAGRAM, not the one above, by ground ( unless is to light up the switch ?

have you ever thought on get the fan controled automatically by temp sensors and get an aux switch for emergency ?

[Nacho-RT74]

  The only reason a switch needs a ground is for an internal light, possibly to show it's on. A relay needs a ground just for it's coil to work.

if you read the aux switch diagram description, the fan is already getting power from batt, so needs the ground to be activated. This is opposite to the first diagram

[Nacho-RT74]

This is a diagram I made for a dual fan option ( without a control unit, just using relays and sensors ) for dual fans, and using the second one to be activated by the temp sensor AND when A/C is on too.

can be applied to a single fan too using a single temp sensor ( which are really common ). You can get one temp sensor able to turn on the fan at 195° and cut off when 185° is reached as an example. There is a variety of temp ranges for the on/off switching function.

On this diagram relays are activated by ground sent by the sensor whcih are body grounded, but to feed the positive coming from the power buss/junction ( alt side if ammeter is stil on car ). There are some sensors able to feed whichever input signal ( + or - ) you want on a 3rd pin they get.

the added relay for the AC works to activate the ground at the second fan relay just like it was the temp sensor. It would be a high temp sensor override ( A/C activated will increase the engine temp anyway )

Aux switch can be included. In to the system, just using a ground signal from switch to the relay just like it was the sensor, splicing it into the same signal. It would be an override ground switch.

sourcing the trigger signal ( 86 terminal on relays ) from ign switch, fans will work just when ign switch is activated. Sourcing from positive, the fans will turn off just when low temp has been reached, no matter if ign switch is activated

( I can't recall where I posted all the info about this!!!!! including the temp sensors PNs )

( EDITING: JUST FOUND THIS SAME INFO WAS POSTED ON THIS BOARD BECAUSE HAD TO RENAME THE ATTACHMENT lol )

[comet_666]

HONESTLY there are some stuff here I don't get.

what you wired ( per your description ) doesn't match the diagram

and on second pic, I don't get the aux switch getting 12 volts if fan is activated PER THAT PIC DIAGRAM, not the one above, by ground ( unless is to light up the switch ?

have you ever thought on get the fan controled automatically by temp sensors and get an aux switch for emergency ?

The switch is light up and I didnt wire the 12v to that at first because I figuered it was for the light which I could care less about. But still nothing. Maybe a bad ground to dash or body?

[Nacho-RT74]

this is one temp sensor switch which turns on on 210° and turns off at 195°. They have the specs shown on the side

is just an example, I would use a lower rate temp of course

[Nacho-RT74]

HONESTLY there are some stuff here I don't get.

what you wired ( per your description ) doesn't match the diagram

and on second pic, I don't get the aux switch getting 12 volts if fan is activated PER THAT PIC DIAGRAM, not the one above, by ground ( unless is to light up the switch ?

have you ever thought on get the fan controled automatically by temp sensors and get an aux switch for emergency ?

The switch is light up and I didnt wire the 12v to that at first because I figuered it was for the light which I could care less about. But still nothing. Maybe a bad ground to dash or body?

ok both diagrams are mistmatched. The 1st one shows the fan being activated by ign switch positive source with constant ground at gray wire, making to work the fan as soon you put the key in RUN, but the second one shows like the signal sent by the switch is ground.

IF SO, then the switch must be spliced into the gray wire at relay and gray wire must not be grounded ( which should be 85 terminal on relay ). That will make to work the fan when both stages are activated... ign switch and aux switch. You wouldn't ground the relay, just the fan. The relay will be grounded via the aux switch to make it work

however I like better the idea the fan will turn on automatically by a temp sensor, having the aux switch as an override switch. On this case, BOTH, the temp sensor and the aux switch will feed ( spliced together ) the gray wire of the first diagram you posted ( 85 terminal at relay )

[Nacho-RT74]

need to note, your firts diagram and my diagram got the blue and yellow wires reversed, so to be sure, look at the relay terminal numbers.

the standard use of these relays is:
30 is input power
85 ground ( switched or not )
86 trigger signal
87 output power to device

85 and 86 can be reversed at certain conditions, and both can be a trigger.

[comet_666]

Ill add the MSD instructions. I have read these over and over and like you Nacho-RT74 it seems like something is a miss.

[Nacho-RT74]

on number 1... there is not a real reason to mount closer as posible. Damn... this is why some ppl gets conditioned to some kind of installations, because MOTHER GOD MSD TOLD THAT!!!

About the rest, they are following the diagram, and that's good ( I wouldn't do it on that way, but it works ). The missmatch is made with the aux switch diagram.

They set the blue wire as the source to the fan, and the yellow to ign switch wiring... doesn't matter the colors, as far the ign switch arrives to 86 terminal and the fan gets the 87 terminal on relay.

NOW, on number 6 they say to run not just to ign switch wiring but also to another switch. Well in this case, the poles should be reversed from what the aux switch diagram shows.

1 to the 86 terminal on relay ( what they stated as yellow wire )
2 to a positive source, not a ground source.
3 could be chassis ground to make the switch light work.

this is assuming the switch is chassis isolated of course, which it should being on their original setup the ground at terminal 2 is wired.

if you splice the #2 terminal at aux switch into a keyed source such as the ign circuit, you'll have dual switchs on same circuit to turn off the fan on the first it comes to off... ign switch or aux switch, but won't be able to turn on fans with key in off.

If you splice the #2 terminal at some batt source you'll be able to turn on and off the fan just throught this switch no matter the ign switch stage


OR as I told you previouslly, wire the aux switch like the original diagram, driving negative BUT to feed the gray wire on relay ( 85 terminal ). You won't ground the gray wire to chassis. On this case the relay will be grounded by the switch and that, along with the key in RUN will trigger both sides of relay to activate the fan.

Either one will work, just that the one sourcing the ground on relay will alow you to add a single prong temp sensor switch to make it work independently from the aux switch, being the aux switch an override switch. Mostly sure the light on switch will light on too when temp sensor activates the fan unless you insert a diode, but I like the light on feature when fan is on as a pilot light, no matter if activated by switch or by the sensor

[comet_666]

Nacho-RT74  thank you so much for the information!!!
I think I will try this ....OR as I told you previouslly, wire the aux switch like the original diagram, driving negative BUT to feed the gray wire on relay ( 85 terminal ). You won't ground the gray wire to chassis. On this case the relay will be grounded by the switch and that, along with the key in RUN will trigger both sides of relay to activate the fan.

I will give this a shot and get back with the results!

[green69rt]

Just going to throw out a couple of thoughts.  Nacho is the go-to guy on this site so no argument with his suggestions.  But, a VOM and a little practice will solve a lot of problems that folks run into.  Learn to use one.  Most are pretty cheap.  I've had one from Radio Shack for about 30 years,  it's pretty ugly but still does the job.  So, get a VOM( volt-ohm-meter) and learn how to use it.

[Nacho-RT74]

Just going to throw out a couple of thoughts.  Nacho is the go-to guy on this site so no argument with his suggestions.

Thanks for your words, but arguments are accepted. I don't have THE LAST WORD on this, but just can post my experiences, logics and suggestions. There are ppl with same or more skills and knowledgement than me.

  But, a VOM and a little practice will solve a lot of problems that folks run into.  Learn to use one.  Most are pretty cheap.  I've had one from Radio Shack for about 30 years,  it's pretty ugly but still does the job.  So, get a VOM( volt-ohm-meter) and learn how to use it.

true... I would in fact buy an analog one that will allow to test pulsating signals such as cluster voltage limiter, what digitals couldn't do. It won't let you know the RMS voltage ( is not RMS, because RMS is to sinoidal signals like AC, but I can't recall the name for the same on DC ), but will sense the pulses. True analog multitesters need some more knowledgement about how to use it and understand the readings.

there are nice Automobile aplications Multitesters made by Simpson, which is one of the best electrical toolings around and there are nice old fashion vintage testers. Sure not the cheapers, but can be found nice priced.

The one I have is a cheap chinesse one but with full functions which just paid $20 or so:




the same model is made under diff brands, but same PN, 3021 LOL

( I use it at job too, since I'm a sound and stage tech )

[Nacho-RT74]

or also get an specific tester for automobile application, also analog. These are able to give you RPMs, DC voltage, continuity/resistance, dwell adjustments and the ammeter with a shunt they get as an accesory. I have a couple of these, but one of them got missed the accesories



wide variety of prices for these... $40-$200

the one on the pic is on $35 but searching, found somebody selling one in $9 ( maybe some odf the accesories is missed )

here an ebay list

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC1.A0.H0.Xengine+analizer.TRS0&_nkw=engine+analizer&_sacat=0

[comet_666]

Thanks guys, I will start poking around for one of these valuable tools, would sure cut down on the headaches.
Nacho-RT74 , I now have yellow wire going to 1 on switch and gray wire now going to 2 on switch, Now i believe i need some sort of 12v power for 3 on the switch, could I tag into the cigerette lighter? I was looking at my manual and I can't tell if thats 12v or not? And I assume I will need heavy gauge wire for this connection?
Thanks again for your help everyone, it is really appreciated.

[b5blue]

Sometimes free with coupon: https://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-63759.html   

[comet_666]

Sometimes free with coupon: https://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-63759.html   

yah i actually had that one, got some stuff stolen out of my car and im sure accidentally they took that lol

[Nacho-RT74]

no... nothing related to yellow wire... yellow wire must be tapped into the ignition circuit just like the relay diagram ( OR accesories circuit, the deal is a switched source. Ign 1 is closer/easier since is into engine bay, while ACC is not )

number 1 of switch to gray wire at relay
number 2 to chassis ground anywhere around switch...

that's all

number 3... I guess any 12 volts source around the switch location.... switched or not... prefferably switched ( acc or Ign1 )


about multimeter, I'm more fan of analogs, but whatever. The advantage of digital is they are easier to set the range for those who are not familiar with electronics and if you reversed wire leads, will show - on screen

[Nacho-RT74]

this

[Nacho-RT74]

then later... you can make this once you choose the temp range ( and thread to the water pump ) for the fan to work... and will work automatically, being the dash switch just an override/emergency switch

[comet_666]

Thank you so much Nacho-RT74!

[Nacho-RT74]

well?

[krops cars]

I want to know also.

[b5blue]

Give him some time! 

[darbgnik]

I want to know also.

Ya, we're all committed now. haha