Strange starter issue.

[Kern Dog]

A few hot restarts were like they were before, slow and strained. Checking the battery voltage afterwards, it was down to 11.8, 11.7 or so. It slowly rose after sitting but not all the way back.
I tried jump starting with another battery. Starting still slower than ideal but it did start. I pulled the AGM battery and put the other conventional battery in directly to the cables in the car. It started much easier.
I'm taking this AGM battery back and trading it for a conventional one. All along, this may have come down to the AGM not holding it's charge under a load, like some have suggested. I didn't want to suspect a $150 battery though!

[c00nhunterjoe]

Going from a 40 to a 30 weight oil on a hot soak issue do3snt make sense to me.

[c00nhunterjoe]

missed the last post about the battery. That makes the most sense.

[jlatessa]

I'm betting on the oil......

Joe

[Kern Dog]

Going from a 40 to a 30 weight oil on a hot soak issue do3snt make sense to me.

It didn't to me either but when you've exhausted the sensible possibilities, you start to consider the ones that make no sense! I thought thicker oil may have increased the cranking effort due to thicker oil being harder to pump.

This new battery has 985 cranking amps, 800 CCAs. It was at 12.61 volts when I put it in.
The car cranked right up like a new car. I warmed it up to 190 degrees and shut it down. I immediately restarted it with no problems. I waited 3-4 minutes and it started again. 15 minutes later, it started fine. With the other starter and battery, it cranked real slow when cold AND after a drive/full warm-up.
Also....
The voltage when idling went down with the both of the regular NAPA batteries. The voltage with the AGM was in the mid to high 14 volt range. With these others, it is in the 13.7 range. This makes me wonder if the AGM could register a good surface charge but not handle much of a load.
For now, it seems to be okay.

[alfaitalia]

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

[Kern Dog]

Ah.....It had to be a Brit to say something so sensible !   

[c00nhunterjoe]

Going from a 40 to a 30 weight oil on a hot soak issue do3snt make sense to me.

It didn't to me either but when you've exhausted the sensible possibilities, you start to consider the ones that make no sense! I thought thicker oil may have increased the cranking effort due to thicker oil being harder to pump.

This new battery has 985 cranking amps, 800 CCAs. It was at 12.61 volts when I put it in.
The car cranked right up like a new car. I warmed it up to 190 degrees and shut it down. I immediately restarted it with no problems. I waited 3-4 minutes and it started again. 15 minutes later, it started fine. With the other starter and battery, it cranked real slow when cold AND after a drive/full warm-up.
Also....
The voltage when idling went down with the both of the regular NAPA batteries. The voltage with the AGM was in the mid to high 14 volt range. With these others, it is in the 13.7 range. This makes me wonder if the AGM could register a good surface charge but not handle much of a load.
For now, it seems to be okay.

Regarding the oil portion- you said it cranked fine cold, but not hot. Therefore the oil viscosity is not too thick. That was my point.

[Kern Dog]

Post # 11 detailed how even with the new starter, it cranked over slow during the first start of the day.
Threads like these can be hard to follow. There are so many comments, details can be missed.
The reasoning behind running the thinner oil was to reduce strain on the first start of the day, a condition that has been consistently met with slow cranking.
I didn't know how much of an effect that it might have but I do know just from pre-oiling an engine, driving the oil pump takes some power. My 3/8" drill seems to strain doing it.
To recap, it was cranking slow for the first start, slow when hot but usually cranked fine after running it a few minutes.
Now it seems to be fine during all conditions. I didn't think that the battery could have been at fault because the voltage was in spec. I can only guess that it just couldn't handle the load of the starter. The case of the battery seemed a little bulged out too.

[John_Kunkel]

When a battery is suspect, only a good carbon-pile load tester (not a small handheld) will tell its condition. An alternate test is to check the battery voltage while cranking, both at the battery and at the starter. I know, headers make that difficult.

[Kern Dog]

Thanks, you are right, especially with my setup. The terminals are closer to the engine block than the fender apron. Trying to snake a test probe in there would be difficult.
The easy way would be to test at the output side of the Ford solenoid.  That would not account for whatever voltage drop I'd have through the 16' of 1/0 cable.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Post # 11 detailed how even with the new starter, it cranked over slow during the first start of the day.
Threads like these can be hard to follow. There are so many comments, details can be missed.
The reasoning behind running the thinner oil was to reduce strain on the first start of the day, a condition that has been consistently met with slow cranking.
I didn't know how much of an effect that it might have but I do know just from pre-oiling an engine, driving the oil pump takes some power. My 3/8" drill seems to strain doing it.
To recap, it was cranking slow for the first start, slow when hot but usually cranked fine after running it a few minutes.
Now it seems to be fine during all conditions. I didn't think that the battery could have been at fault because the voltage was in spec. I can only guess that it just couldn't handle the load of the starter. The case of the battery seemed a little bulged out too.

I was refering to post #14 where you changed to 30 weight and after starting the battery sat idle at 11.7 volts. Thats not a starter or oil problem.

[Kern Dog]

I was just telling what happened in the order that they happened. I was more concerned with the voltage drop after trying to start the car. I've never tested voltage after trying to start this engine so I don't know what kind of loss is normal.
It started fine today. IT look like the battery was to blame.

[green69rt]

I was just telling what happened in the order that they happened. I was more concerned with the voltage drop after trying to start the car. I've never tested voltage after trying to start this engine so I don't know what kind of loss is normal.
It started fine today. IT look like the battery was to blame.

I have to say, a bad battery has led me down so many false trails that I can't remember the times.  When I have an electrical problem now, the first thing I check is the battery.  Not just a voltage check, take it to someplace that will do a load test.

[Kern Dog]

Good advice.

[john108]

Reply # 7 suggested you disconnect the battery in the trunk and jump start the engine at the engine compartment with a good battery.
Tried to help.

[John_Kunkel]

Hard to do with headers.

[Kern Dog]

I have gone out and started this car every day since I put in the new battery and it has not faltered once.
I'm still surprised that a 6 month old battery crapped out. I see no reason to buy another AGM type battery. Charging that one was a hassle.

[c00nhunterjoe]

90% of the lead in them is chinese recycled junk anymore. Agm is still the way to go, you just got a bad one unfortunately.

[green69rt]

I use to buy the longest life battery I could, I think Sears use to sell a 6 year battery and it was expensive.  It had 3 year free replacement and then prorate the next three years.  I almost always had to replace them around 3 years, no matter how much I paid.  I just go to Walmart now and get a 36 month battery, don't pay much attention to brand, just whatever fits.  They still last 36-40 months and Walmart installs the new one free.  Whenever I run into a strange electrical problem, I just haul it off to Walmart for testing if the problem is not something obvious.  When I do that, probably 60% of the time it's the battery, 30% of the time it's the cable terminal (loose or corroded.)

[Bronzedodge]

I still test my lead acid batteries with a hydrometer.   Sadly not an option with the AGM ones. 

[Kern Dog]

 

[Back N Black]

I have gone out and started this car every day since I put in the new battery and it has not faltered once.
I'm still surprised that a 6 month old battery crapped out. I see no reason to buy another AGM type battery. Charging that one was a hassle.

I have an AMG in my charger and I don't like it. It seem to take a long time to re charge after startup, the AMP gage slowly moves back to center. I Also have the slow cranking on occasion.

[krops cars]

I have a friend that is building a drift car for his son. Same issue. I have him running 1/0 welding wire. You are losing amps threw the distance of cable. This is different example. I have a boat. The trolling motor was professionally installed. One time I was fishing it wasn't working. The motor would only turn very slow. Then all of a sudden bang it would work. So I was like bad brush. Tear it down. Nothing wrong. So I was thinking bad cam. Order and install. Oh yes I did check the circuit breaker and even replaced. Go out fishing worked for awhile and again it would go in to turning slow. No I'am very unhappy. I cleaned it up. Take the cover off look at the card and all connections. All good. Bought a new motor and figured it was it. Nope. Now I was real happy. Pull the wires from the connector in the boat and found the wire they used to run over 8" was smaller than what was on the trolling motor. Went with #4 wire. Thing is unstoppable. So in a nut shell. Run a mutch heavier gauge wire to the Ford solenoid. You should be fine from there to the starter.

[Kern Dog]

I have checked voltage at several points including the battery, the solenoid, the alternator and the starter relay. They all test very close to each other.