Where do I start with over charge issue?

[AKcharger]

After installation of the A/C and 500W amp I notice the ALT is ALWAYS in the max charge zone. This is even with a full battery and the amp stereo off. It hasn't caused any issues or dead battery's but I don't like it.

suggestions?

[b5blue]

Verify the ALT isn't max outputting (runaway) and check the regulator is grounded. You can try disconnecting the ALT to see if the gauge is stuck. Check the cluster's ground.      (I could think clearer without the bouncing green booty distraction.)

[metallicareload99]

Stock ammeter? Somehow you are getting full field through the alternator.  Last time I had a voltage regulator go bad, it would go to full field randomly. I'd also check for a short somewhere in the field wiring.  Might see what happens when you run it with the voltage regulator disconnected?  Fix it soon, unless you want to rewire the whole dash, in the best case scenario!!! 

[John_Kunkel]

Don't do anything until you've checked the voltage at the battery with the ammeter at high scale.

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

If you wire those additional loads (A/C and Stereo) directly to the positive battery terminal the ammeter is going to read the additional current required as charging current for the battery. The ammeter doesn't know where the current is going only that it is going toward the battery. Do check the battery charging voltage to make sure it is in the proper range of 14 to 14.5 volts but my bet is on the wiring is not correct. Additional electrical loads must be placed on the alternator side of the ammeter for it to read correctly. This gets to be an issue with big sound systems because they are current hungry and really should be connected at the battery but, then that screws up the ammeter.

Okay, sorry, I just re-read your post and saw this is happening with the stereo off. but how about the A/C?

[Nacho-RT74]

However you didn't told us if the A/C is on or off either. But Pete told one of the main reasons for ammeter failures by the wrong proceeding when hooking up accesories on our cars by those called "techs".

Ammeter cars NEVER must get any accesory sourced from batt side, because ammeter will read like charge stage, when is actually feeding the accesories load.

[AKcharger]

Good tips all, thanks guys!

- B5 I did have the whole dash apart for the A/C will check grounds
- metal wilco on VR, I'll swap another one in
- John copy, will be 1st thing!
- Pete I put the amp wire to the battery, WAY to big a gage wire to be attached anywhere else, will check on A/C
- Copy nacho!

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Nacho, you are the 3rd gem Guru.

You got my charging system & electrical  figured out !

However, I bet he has a bad wire for the ALT to bulkhead or something.

I have a 1,000 watt amp for my 2 Bass Subs &  300 watt amp for my 6x9 highs in my Charger. The ALT gauage stays dead center after you helped me and only a little to D with everting on, AC on and Bass pumping out some heavy metal !

The only way to hook up those car amps is direct to the battery.  

I also have a toggle for my hideaways from the battery with a fuse till I do the correct splice for that.

Nacho, please answer my brake question on my electrail post !!!! About the part I found....

[BMOTOXSTAR]

So run my car amps from the ALT + not the battery?

[Nacho-RT74]

So run my car amps from the ALT + not the battery?

All ammeter cars must get all their functions ( but starter motor and maybe some other ocassional accesory which don't affect really to the regular operation ) sourced from somewhere between alt and ammeter to read correctly  and don't get stressed the ammeter unnecessary... If you run a thicker parallel wire on that path, you can even use the alt stud for it ( black ). All my AC blower speeds and headlights are relay upgraded ( 6 relays in total ) and are hooked to the amm stud. Sure just 2 relays max will get load at the same time( driving at night with AC for example ), althought a 3rd one will be also activated if blower is on Mid or High speed, because stock AC system gets the low blower speed activated by default no matter the blower speed you select.

A regular modern stereo system should still be fine with that still with some amplifiers. Modern equipments use to be more efficient with lower loads and still being powerful. Sure competition audio cars or similars don't LOL.

1000 watts amp? PMPO or RMS ? 1000 RMS watts power plant is HUGE still for a 300-400 ppl theater LOL. Althought a subs system sure will suck it out... on a theater!!!

[BMOTOXSTAR]

Na Nacho...it is more like a 400 WATT RMS Bridged MONO amp for bass! 

[AKcharger]

Hi guys

Sorry for delay, was working on garage floor, anyway:

- Volts at Batt Idle 12 and at 2200 13.1
- If I disco the AMP and radiator fans (their hooked to the batt too) The Amp needle will drop down to about the 1/2 way position

I was going to swap out a voltage regulator and see if there's any difference but my 2 questions are:
1) if the cause is current draw at batt is that a bad/dangerous thing?
2)Would a higher amp alt be a solution?

any other suggestions
Thanks!

[AKcharger]

Oh, floor in case you care

[metallicareload99]

Floor looks good!  

Hi guys

Sorry for delay, was working on garage floor, anyway:

- Volts at Batt Idle 12 and at 2200 13.1
- If I disco the AMP and radiator fans (their hooked to the batt too) The Amp needle will drop down to about the 1/2 way position

I was going to swap out a voltage regulator and see if there's any difference but my 2 questions are:
1) if the cause is current draw at batt is that a bad/dangerous thing?
2)Would a higher amp alt be a solution?

any other suggestions
Thanks!

Some might say your new equipment is wired to the "wrong" side of the ammeter, so that's why it would show charge.  You say it shows charge even when the stereo is off, so there is something drawing a lot of current on the battery side of the ammeter. The amp and A/C themselves might not be causing the problem. I would want to know what it is. What alternator are you using?  

1-> If anything is drawing full output through the dash wiring, I think that's a bad thing. Some causes are a totally dead battery, or short to ground, etc.

2-> Higher amp alternator is nice to have. Supposedly they also make more current @ idle than standard alternators, on top of the higher peak output. But what you have now might be good enough. Although with only 12 volts at idle, and everything checks out as ok, I'd say you need a higher amp alternator ?

[ACUDANUT]

 Nice garage. What about a voltage regulator. ?

[Nacho-RT74]

if ammeter wiring is reversed, with engine off any accesory being turned on will show a Charger reading on ammeter, where should be discharge reading. Dome light, cigar lighter... headlights.

EVERYTHING on car must be sourced from alternator side of the ammeter, never from batt side. Some exceptions are allowed like accesories such as power windows and similar stuff where the load is sucked at certaing moments and they are not constantly working, however you'll get with engine running a slight charge reading while windows are going up and down. With engine off you won't get reading, just like when you crank the engine, where starter motor is sourced from batt, but as soon engine is started, the charge reading floats on for a few minutes to recharge what battery lost while cranking.

if you are sourcing the fans from batt and that reading happened while fans were on, the ammeter is reading Charger due the load sucked by the fans, not because battery is being charged. Load is goig through the ammeter without need to that. Yes, along the time this becomes on a dangerous stage. You are stressing the ammeter to read something is not truth. You are not charging the batt but sourcing the fans. Same with stereo amps.

Sourcing the fans from ammeter will barelly move the ammeter needle to discharge while engine is iddling IF alternator is not powerfull enough to feed them, so the batt will source what the alt is missing to feed the fans ( hence the discharge reading ). Then ginving speed, the alt will increase its output and will be able to feed the fans and the extra juice will run to the batt to get it charged back as far battery request that... but while engine is spinning fast.

With electric fans the better output alternator is a must, not an option. Something like 100 amps able to feed 60 to 65 amps iddling as minimun

another MUST is set a paralell path to the bulkhead conections to prevent stress on bulkhead terminals. With a low capacity alternator, more power will be drained from batt ( discharge reading ) to feed the fans and when giving throttle, will get more time charge reading. This constant back and forth load for long time periods will stress the system which factory actually underrated ( packard terminals barelly can hold up to 35 amps, maybe 40 by short time, and that was when they were brand new, tight and clean ). Read my stickied thread about charging and wiring upgrades and note how the load plays on our cars and what's the reading amm shows on every stage.

[AKcharger]

R2 the Voltage regulator and it's still pretty much the same. I'm going to next try running a ground from the inst. cluster to the dash, I think that might have something to do with it as I repainted EVERYTHING on the steering Colum and dash area

But Nacho I am going to tap into the power wire from the Alternator (I have one going to the headlights from the headlight mod) and run fans direct from alternator makes sense and it's a lot of juice

[Nacho-RT74]

The voltage limiter has no control over the ammeter. Ammeter it gets its own life with the load coming in and out to/from batt.

If you conected the wide spade terminal to the voltage regulator bracket prong and the ground wire is also clean and tight at the dash frame provision for that ( around emergency brake handle area ), you should be fine with ground to VL ( #2 on pic ). Since the VL is attached to the cluster with a screw, that ground will also reinforce the ground to the cluster which usually is already grounded with the attaching screws to dash frame, but that would be for lighting network, clock/tach.



Yeap, the fans and everything must attached to Alternator stud OR some junction or buss on the same line coming out from Alt output. You'll notice the change on ammeter.

[AKcharger]

UPDATE!

- I jumpered a ground from the dash frame direct to the body...no change
- I wired fans into the direct ALT power that is also going to the headlights and that made a difference

Below is night, high beams and driving for about 15 min...I'm gonna say that's good, what do you guys think

[Nacho-RT74]

Sure, because the extra charge reading wasn't going to the batt but to the fans. Ammeter is not able to say the load going to the batt, but everything going to THAT side. Assuming JUST the batt is on that side is logic to take the conclusion all the load going through the ammeter to the batt side should be to charge it, but this becomes untruthful when there is anything else being feeded on that side.

Now, IF EVERYTHING COMES GOOD CORRECTLY, someday with a full battery and being sure there is not anything else being sourced between batt and ammeter, you should get a death centered ammeter reading

[b5blue]

Much better!

[AKcharger]

Thanks guys!

[BMOTOXSTAR]

So, run the amps + to the alternator stud correct? I have a mild amp for highs and subs. Or is it best with these older Mopars just to keep a  head unit with no amp to avoid any damage to the electrical system?

Hi,

If you wire those additional loads (A/C and Stereo) directly to the positive battery terminal the ammeter is going to read the additional current required as charging current for the battery. The ammeter doesn't know where the current is going only that it is going toward the battery. Do check the battery charging voltage to make sure it is in the proper range of 14 to 14.5 volts but my bet is on the wiring is not correct. Additional electrical loads must be placed on the alternator side of the ammeter for it to read correctly. This gets to be an issue with big sound systems because they are current hungry and really should be connected at the battery but, then that screws up the ammeter.

Okay, sorry, I just re-read your post and saw this is happening with the stereo off. but how about the A/C?

[b5blue]

If you match speakers to RMS rating properly you can have lots of volume with 20AMP head unit output.  http://www.bcae1.com/ 

[AKcharger]

So, run the amps + to the alternator stud correct? I have a mild amp for highs and subs. Or is it best with these older Mopars just to keep a  head unit with no amp to avoid any damage to the electrical system?

BMO - The high draw stuff like lights I run to the ALT stud and use a relay (see headlight mod) I did same thing for radiator fans. The ALT gage doesn't "see" the current draw and it any takes power when needed and each has proper cuicut protection

B5 - It's a matched set from the stero stor so I'm hoping it's right

[b5blue]

I've run an 8ga. wire to a fused distribution block under the washer fluid container on my 70.