Radiator Question:

[john108]

Hi
1968 charger R/T, 505 Stroked 440.
There are many vendors selling and or manufacturing radiators. 
They provide some information about their design but not enough.
There are 2 core, 3 core, and 4 core.  Tube sizes vary between 5/8" to more than 1".
They never discuss number of tubes/core, number and size of fins, etc.
Some claim that they will cool 700 to 900 HP.

I have read discussions that claim a 2-core with 1"+ diameter tubes will out cool 3 and 4 core units, but no other design information.  It appears that, the more cores, the smaller the tubes. 
Then there is the question of using electric fans.

I am at a loss and not sure which way to turn.  I would appreciate learning what others know about this subject.  I would also appreciation recommendations.
Thank You
John

[b5blue]

Many like this: http://www.speedcooling.com/26-Big-Block-Mopar-Radiator.html

[green69rt]

Many like this: http://www.speedcooling.com/26-Big-Block-Mopar-Radiator.html

I have that rig with the dual fans, but I'm in Houston and have AC.  I will need to trim some of the fan case to clear the nose of the water pump pulley.

http://www.speedcooling.com/26-Big-Block-Mopar-Radiator-Dual-Fans.html

[comet_666]

https://wizardcooling.com/1966-1969-26-b-b-mopar-applications-aluminum-radiator-mechanical-fan-shroud/

I got this a handful of years ago with 1.25 in tubes, works well but now I would go with the same radiator but with dual electric fan setup.

[justcruisin]

Don't get caught up in all the 2 3 4 row BS. The fact is you only have so much width, for example if you have a width of roughly 2.5" then you can use 2 rows of 1.25" tube or 3 rows of 3/4" tube or 4 rows of 5/8" tubes. Generally an aluminium radiator with 2 rows of 1" tubes works good when combined with good air flow at idle, and they are cheap. The air flow is the key, stuff that up and no matter what radiator you fit on a BB mopar it's gunna over heat. Copper/brass radiators can't use tubes as big as aluminium as the material does not have the same strength so a smaller tube is used, generally 1/2" although they do work well albeit expensive. The only way to add more cooling for a copper/brass radiator for a given size is to add more rows. A thicker radiator can be more difficult to remove the heat from the core - hence the need for good air flow. Most aluminium radiators I have seen have tubes spaced at 3/8", this seems to be a good distance to enable a maximum amount of tubes for a given size  and enough room for air to pass through. So in a nut shell a aluminium radiator with two rows of 1" tubes on 3/8" spacing is a good bet. If you have the extra cash the radiator Comet suggested is a great choice.

[green69rt]

I will add one thing.   Thick radiator and electric fans uses up the space in front of the engine really fast.  Like I said, I will have to trim the plastic around my fans to get a fit.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I have an aluminum version of the factory 22" 4 core radiator behind my radical 426 with a filled block and it does not overheat in 100 degree summer heat. Rock steady at 160.


https://youtu.be/k6kKyOONkUY

[justcruisin]

Most cars wont have a problem at speed, the issue is normally always at idle in stopped or 5mph traffic. If you can do that for an hour on a hot day and it keeps it's cool, you know you have it sorted. Just to add, I had a 22" radiator before I fitted up a 26" due to needing a support panel change. The 22 worked fine.

[darbgnik]

FWIW, I have the below linked radiator and Jegs dual fans on my car with no issues. Info in my build thread in my signature.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-72-Mopar-B-E-Body-Black-Aluminum-26-Radiator-Roadrunner-Challenger-Cuda/351583436713?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D8519d44956eb425da917e4bdf05c4cb2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D124198609242%26itm%3D351583436713%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A2f038e2b-9fcf-11ea-af7f-74dbd180cdda%7Cparentrq%3A544db53e1720a9c5731c809affff6598%7Ciid%3A1

This thing was very nicely built, with a very nice price, which is the only reason I keep recommending it. And their feedback/reviews on it are 100% positive.

That being said, mine never got hot before, with a flex fan with no clutch either...... I only went to electrics since I had them on the shelf for some reason, and I already had Sniper EFI, which had hi/low triggers already. If I was going carbed, I would use a mechanical fan with a clutch and the factory shroud. Not sure what the cost of those parts would ring up, however. And my car didn't come with the original fan.

[john108]

Thank You
It appears that most are satisfied with what they have.  I am still not ready to commit. I am hoping for more data.
John

[justcruisin]

What sort of data are you looking for?

[john108]

I appreciate your discussion of radiators - justcruisin

darbgnik - I looked at the link you posted and they talk about rows and tube size but don't state what they use.  I looked at your build and it appears the engine is as you bought the car.  I was hoping not to need electric fans??

More brands in use.
How do they do without electric fans.
How well do they fit - modifications required. They all don't fit out of the box.
Any tech data on fabrication.  Limited information even on their websites.
There are many brands out there, only a few were referenced here.  All manufacturers make big claims.
In general, looking for a warm fuzzy feeling of confidence and some form on consensus among members.
I look at reviews on various manufacturers and they often have many complaints with poor support.

[Mopar Nut]

A/C or non A/C?

22" or 26" preferred?

[john108]

26" AC

[justcruisin]

OK, here is what I know from mine and friends experience - the speed cooling radiator referenced in here fitted and worked well and had good construction, I have used both the 22" and 26" radiators from Champion, they both preformed well and were also constructed well, however, both the Champion radiators did not accept the factory shroud, I had to modify the 26" to fit and I had to fab up a shroud for the 22 as there was no way the shroud would work, and they are not very attractive, I know of one guy who had a bad one that leaked. I have used a factory 2 row copper/brass radiator and it did not cool as well as the others on a built 440. I have a factory 22" radiator on a stock 313 poly and it has never over heated.
I have had minimal experience with electric fans as a primary source of air in a classic car/hot rod situation although I do have one as an auxiliary on the front of my Charger. I have seen plenty used and seem to do the job and certainly work in new cars.
Air flow at idle is what you want, in my experience a 19" stainless flex fan works best, down side is that some say they can spit a blade, I have one on my Charger and a friend has had one on his 400 chevy for 6 years - no problems, although I wouldn't use one at the track. The 19" will work with a 26" shroud but the positioning needs to be close to center and it pays to have some catch bolts in your drivers side engine mount or a strap.
I have bought two hayden fan clutches recently, both leaked and sprayed silicon in my engine bay, hence the flex fan. Both were the standard length clutches, I have used the newer shorter clutch recently and it was fine. My guess is old stock.
As far as construction goes, I don't know that anyone is gluing tanks to the core, but they should be tig welded. The core should have tubes on 3/8 spacings, most cores are probably made in the same factory.
IMO either of the radiators mentioned here by others would be good, the wizzard radiator would be my pic if I wasn't worried about the cost. IMO also, you need to be more concerned with air flow at idle.
This is my set up - 26" Champion radiator with factory shroud, 19" stainless flex fan, 17" derale electric fan on the front with a 190 degree thermo switch and manual override switch.

[john108]

justcruisin - Thank you for the info.  t appears that you are satisfied with the Champion even though the shroud was a problem.
The speed cooling radiator had 2 references.  green69rt had an issue having to cut away a portion of the shroud that bumped into the water pump.
The wizzard may be too expensive.
I haven't searches back but if I remember I have read posts where other radiators, such as Griffin and others, were chosen but they also were expensive.
Thank you again
John

[darbgnik]

I appreciate your discussion of radiators - justcruisin

darbgnik - I looked at the link you posted and they talk about rows and tube size but don't state what they use.  I looked at your build and it appears the engine is as you bought the car.  I was hoping not to need electric fans??

More brands in use.
How do they do without electric fans.
How well do they fit - modifications required. They all don't fit out of the box.
Any tech data on fabrication.  Limited information even on their websites.
There are many brands out there, only a few were referenced here.  All manufacturers make big claims.
In general, looking for a warm fuzzy feeling of confidence and some form on consensus among members.
I look at reviews on various manufacturers and they often have many complaints with poor support.

I think that was my point. I doubt you do need electric fans. As I said, if I didn't have EFI, which already comes with triggers for the electric fans, plus actually having the fans already, I would not have installed them. I only did the install, after I found them on the shelf, after already installing EFI. Plus, the car came with a flex fan with a spacer, which I've never liked the looks of...

If I still had a carb, and didn't have the electric fans already, they wouldn't be installed. I would have eventually chucked the flex fan in favor of the factory fan and clutch. Reason being, is I also own a Hummer H1, and by default have a lot of knowledge on mechanical fans vs electrics. Long story short, Hummers overheat on the highway over their 55 mph designed HMMWV top speed when they encounter any grade in warm weather. Much testing and money was spent in search of solutions, with the result always reverting back to a proper functioning (factory installed)mechanical fan. No electric fans can move nearly as much air. Not as much of a problem on most normal cars with vertical radiators. But shortcomings of electric fans rear their head when the radiators are on a 45 degree angle.

I guess what I am trying to say is that electric fans are not a cooling upgrade. Maybe a performance upgrade, a low speed A/C performance upgrade, and maybe even a packaging upgrade in some cases, but never a cooling upgrade.....

[john108]

I understand what you are saying.  I don't remember my Charger, with the original 440 engine ever overheating.  We live in the Sacramento, CA area which has relatively hot summers.  But now with 175 more HP, I am concerned.  Idling in traffic can be a killer.  Electric fans would help there. On the highway, probably not.
Thank You,
John

[firefighter3931]

John,


The ECP with 2 1in tubes looks like a great choice. Charlie (CDR) is in Texas and has A/C on his car with a 500in stroker and his runs nice and cool....with that radiator. 


Ron

[john108]

Ron

From what I understand, his combination is using that $250 radiator and added a $500 Fan.
Looks good to me and may be the direction I am considering. Another member has also bought the same 2 components.
John

[firefighter3931]

John,

Mine has a 1in tube dual pass rad with over 700hp and it cools fine in the summer heat. We get the odd 100* day up here as well. I didn't have room for a mechanical fan so I used a single pusher fan and it works great.

I would try first with a factory 7 blade mechanical fan and shroud mounted to the ECP radiator before going to a high dollar electric fan setup. The other option would be to add a pusher fan on the front of the rad to help with low speed cooling when the car is sitting in traffic. 


Ron

[c00nhunterjoe]

im with ron, IF you can fit the mechanical fan, run it. They traditionally move more air at idle then a run of the mill electric. Use the electric as supplemental airflow.

[john108]

Sounds Good.
Two very knowledgeable guys in agreement.  A good place to start.
Thank You,
John

[cdr]

John,

Mine has a 1in tube dual pass rad with over 700hp and it cools fine in the summer heat. We get the odd 100* day up here as well. I didn't have room for a mechanical fan so I used a single pusher fan and it works great.

I would try first with a factory 7 blade mechanical fan and shroud mounted to the ECP radiator before going to a high dollar electric fan setup. The other option would be to add a pusher fan on the front of the rad to help with low speed cooling when the car is sitting in traffic.  


Ron

^^^^^^^
Before the electric fan I used the 1818 Flexalite 7 blade Mechanical fan & a fan shroud with the ECP radiator, ran COOL 180ish all day long A/C on & outside temps over 100deg, 512cid 68 Charger, worked awesome.

[comet_666]

I was going to delete my clutch fan and get this brushless fan package and built in shroud. I already have this radiator with the 1.25 inch tubes and the mechanical fan shroud so I got to call about the new fan/ shroud package.
https://wizardcooling.com/1966-1969-26-b-b-mopar-applications-aluminum-radiator-w-brushless-fan-package/