The most curious thing just happened...

[lloyd3]

The clutch pedal just collapsed to the floor and it's stuck in 3rd at the bottom of my driveway. It's in a relatively safe place for the moment (thank goodness) and we don't have any weather coming but...damn!  My boy and I had been out for a toot when it started becoming progressively harder to shift it on the way home. I adjusted the clutch last Fall and surprisingly.... I had to adjust it again earlier today just to get it to release more-fully (about 3 full rotations, well with-in the adjustable range) and it was working flawlessly until this. I was hoping to find that the z-bar had failed somehow or maybe the adjustment nut on the clutch shaft has backed off. No such luck I fear.  This clutch has easily less than 10K pretty careful miles on it (maybe even less than that). The throw-out bearing hasn't been singing and I wasn't getting any of the usual warning signs of trouble.  Looks like a pressure plate failure which is very ill-timed (aren't they always?)....the joy of old cars.

[XH29N0G]

Never mind.  I just reread your post and realize you did all the things I suggested.

I take it the clutch does not disengage - it is not just that it is stuck in gear. If you need to move it, you might be able to put into reverse or first and start with it in gear.  I had that happen with two cars when I was younger and would then rev match to get into higher gears.  But in those cars (one was my charger) I always seemed to be able to pull it in and out of gear without using the clutch.

[lloyd3]

XH29N0G: Thank you for the quick reply. It's back in the garage and under the cover. Figured out that by shifting before starting (w/no starter interlock, you still have options) reverse works. You then just shut it off, shift into first, and then run it up into the garage (making sure to shut it off in time to avoid hitting anything). Once on the level (my driveway is short and steep, with a car-length level spot just before entry into the garage), a few extra hands were needed (in neutral, of course!) to push it the final few feet into it's usual resting place.  A battle I'll fight another day. All is good for now. This could have been so-much worse.

[tfdub]

I had that same thing happen to me in 1973 in my Challenger except I was near Erie, Pennsylvania and had to get home to Toledo Ohio with a gas stop and toll booth stops in between. I did the same thing. I stopped the car to get gas and called home near Cleveland, and asked to have ramps set up in the garage. Started in 1st gear, and matched rpm to shift.  It was a failure of the pressure plate and a few springs from the disc were also in the inspection cover. Installed new pressure plate, clutch disc and bearing and all was good. That was a long trip with no clutch.
Terry

[XH29N0G]

Glad it worked out.  Can't say I wasn't a little worried after sending that suggestion that you might not be able to stop before the garage wall showed up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montparnasse_derailment#/media/File:Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg

[lloyd3]

Appropriate photography!  A concern I had as well as I climbed up my driveway with no clutch(!).  Now I just need to find a competent transmission man. The thought of tearing it all apart myself and sweating about every detail (again!) drives me nuts. This hemi (18 spline) 4-speed is from a 1970 car and has been something of a battle from day one. The man from Redbird Road sold it to me back in 2008 and presented it has having been recently rebuilt. The fellow restoring my car made several comments about how it was struggle to make it work without ever telling me exactly why that was. I'm guessing that it was either a flywheel or a pilot bearing issue but...I just don't know for sure.  I had it gone through again at a local transmission shop because it clearly hadn't been rebuilt prior to me buying it and... they seemed to struggle with it as well. It's never seemed to fully release properly and I'm guessing that the crank on this motor might not have been tapped for a pilot bearing but...I just don't know. Only one way to find out now.  Do throw-out bearing arms ever deform or fail?

[b5blue]

My 73 Duster lost the throw-out bearing (3 speed on the floor) and that was it. Sick, stranded on the roadside in the rain, the car was vandalized badly before I could rescue it a day later.

[XH29N0G]

It is a fairly simple mechanism.

There is the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, fork, and then it goes to the fork rod, z bar and the rest that is outside.  I think the call by tfdub that it is the pressure plate is probably correct.  I don't think the fork will bend.  I suspect a failed throwout bearing will still force a clutch open and closed when the engine is off. 

My guess is it is the pressure plate and has nothing to do with the transmission because it shifted when the car was off.

I think this should be fairly easy for a mechanic to address.  You could also do this, but they can be a little unwieldy and heavy to work on (at least at my age and strength).  I have pulled the transmission 2 times under the car - once in the 1980s and once a few years ago.  It was much easier the first time simply because the person I was working with (and I) were stronger. 

See what other people say about this. 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Could it be something as simple as a linkage rod came off? Whatever it is, it should be easy to find the problem.

[lloyd3]

I wish. I climbed under it Sunday to confirm that the clutch linkage hadn't failed somehow. Everything was exactly where it should be.  Once I get a few more things done this week around the house, I'll get a jack under it and do a closer examination, a "post-motum" so-to speak.

[Moparpoolman]

Could it be something as simple as a linkage rod came off? Whatever it is, it should be easy to find the problem.

[nchrome]

l once had this happen and what was he cause was the nylon bushings inside the pivot am at both ends some how broke or fell out. Also check the mounting point of the pivot arm on the frame to see if it came unbolted or broke. lf so maybe you mite want to convert to a hydraulic clutch.

[MRCHARGER68]

As a once stock purest, the idea of a hydraulic clutch seemed blasphemous, but hidden in the right way, it's manual joy! I could see not altering a concourse factory correct car. Being stuck in Detroit traffic with a heavy-duty spring clutch set-up kills your knee and hip (on an older guy like me). It took me a long time to warm up to the concept of making the car more fun to drive and not feel like I was altering its classic vibe. So no super tach on the steering column, blinky-faced stereo in the dash or mudflaps, but sure could row through the gears with ease with the hydraulic clutch.

[lloyd3]

Well... called my insurance folks this AM. Since I'm transporting it today by trailer for a significant distance (approximately 50 miles) I thought I'd confirm a few things. I also upped my insurance coverage significantly (the lady I spoke with was also surprised by the current valuation in her NADA? reference manual).  Taking it apart in a very nice private shop now (with a lift!). Hope we don't get popped by the virus Nazis.

[DanielRobert]

It's the pressure plate....thats what they do sometimes.

[myk]

As a once stock purest, the idea of a hydraulic clutch seemed blasphemous, but hidden in the right way, it's manual joy! I could see not altering a concourse factory correct car. Being stuck in Detroit traffic with a heavy-duty spring clutch set-up kills your knee and hip (on an older guy like me). It took me a long time to warm up to the concept of making the car more fun to drive and not feel like I was altering its classic vibe. So no super tach on the steering column, blinky-faced stereo in the dash or mudflaps, but sure could row through the gears with ease with the hydraulic clutch.

Yes.  Heaven forbid we alter a car to make it more enjoyable to drive and enjoy.  A car should be factory correct at all costs!

[ACUDANUT]

Well... called my insurance folks this AM. Since I'm transporting it today by trailer for a significant distance (approximately 50 miles) I thought I'd confirm a few things. I also upped my insurance coverage significantly (the lady I spoke with was also surprised by the current valuation in her NADA? reference manual).  Taking it apart in a very nice private shop now (with a lift!). Hope we don't get popped by the virus Nazis.

What was the findings ?
"Hope we don't get popped by the virus Nazis"... errr it's the commie Virus.

[lloyd3]

Tried to save a few bucks with a donated trailer, but the decking was shot and the ramps were too-short for practical loading (it would have been all too-easy to tear things up). In the end I decided to pay the freight for safe and efficient transport. Gorgeous day here yesterday.

...

The "commie virus" seems to be losing it sway over larger portions of the population here, as the roads were more-noticeably busy yesterday. Met the car and driver at the destination with no issues from the local authorities.



Carefully maneuvered the old b-body onto the lift and then....



Pulled the access plate and looked everything over. No obvious reason for why the pressure plate had failed. Oh well.

Can anybody here suggest a good source of supply for the parts I'll need (clutch, pressure-plate and throw-out bearing)? I sure don't want to use whoever manufactured the last one (which is all red and shiny, Centerline maybe?).  Nobody was painting pressure plates when I was doing them back in the old days.

Year One only lists parts for the 23-spline version of the A-833. This one's 18-spline. Are the folks at Brewer's Performance still good to deal with?

[Wakko]

Cool little lift, for sure.

[lloyd3]

Its starting to sound now like the throw-out bearing twisted out of the shift fork. Trying to figure out just how that happened. Looks like a cracked pivot point on the arm, hopefully replaceable.



What the hell is this called and where might I find it?

[XH29N0G]

I think brewers and they are called as you call them clutch fork pivot.

[lloyd3]

Found them, thank you. $20 part (finding the right one might be tricky, many options it would seem). It sure would be nice if I could bend the throw-out bearing retaining clips back into shape and just reassemble everything. Certainly worth a try.  Getting under the car sure reveals that lots of things seem to be leaking as well. Good opportunity to address them now.  Who makes nice, thick cork valve cover gaskets anymore?  The Fel-Pros I've seen lately are pretty thin and crappy.

[myk]

Oh those leaks...

[lloyd3]

Yeah, pretty bad. Had oil streamed back to the mufflers on the passenger side.

Also, this car now has a cast-iron bellhousing (it used to be aluminum). Not a big deal ( I guess I wont be needing a scatter-shield) except I can't locate any casting numbers on it to confirm a few things about it.  Any specific places I need to be looking?

[lloyd3]

Well...was out driving the car last night around Boulder.  Nobody pulled us over and nobody accused me of owning a "one-car environmental disaster" (as has happened in the past).  The replacement pivot makes all the difference.  Reassembling things was a bit tricky, but by loosening both the bell-housing and the transmission, we were able to maneuver things back together. Had to reshape one distorted clip on one throw-out bearing ear a wee-bit but... everything works. I am noticing a small hitch on the shift into 1st (a burr on some brass?) and maybe even 3rd but otherwise it's remarkably fine considering what it's been subjected to.