May I vent/rant about parts availability?

[bull]

I went to my brother's house yesterday to celebrate Mother's Day with my wife, mom and sister-in-law and as a recent Corvette owner (he bought a '75 driver/fixer off Ebay about three weeks ago) my brother pulls out a catalog called Corvette America that lists and sells virtually every part available for every Corvette ever made. I'm looking through this thing and I'm getting a little irritated (jealous I guess) that I'm seeing brand new examples of hard plastic interior parts, fenders, entire front and back end fiberglass sets, brand new seatbelt sets for like $47 (I just passed on a used Ebay Charger seatbelt set that sold for $330 -- Hemigeno can tell you about that auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8063707190&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT) and pretty much every other item I could think of. I understand that they made several generations of Corvette, some that ran for years and were virtually unchanged during that time so it's a pretty safe bet that the sellers of those parts can make a good living for years to come. But I can't help feeling a little frustration over the lack of availability we have for parts. I mean, aren't these cars supposed to be pretty popular, although not as numerous as other muscle car brands? Even though I'm frustrated I totally understand how reluctant vendors are to tool up to make a part and then try getting their money back out of it, let alone make a profit. In many cases it just might not happen because there aren't enough guaranteed sales to justify making them.

I feel sorry for the first and third generation guys too because they have it even worse but even as a second generation owner I get tired of fighting over beat up used stuff on Ebay that costs 8 times more than a Corvette owner can pay for a brand new part. Another thing that struck me was that my brother can go to one source for everything. Even Year One doesn't sell everything availiable for a Charger. They come close but often I find myself sifting through 20 different websites for parts, some of them selling the same things, some not. It seems pretty hit and miss and disorganized compared to the stuff available to Chevy and Ford owners.

All done. Am I going to get flamed now by the guys whose cars are finished?

[Arigmaster]

I share your frustration Bull,

I am sure most others do as well but I believe that popularity isn't the factor here, it was production numbers. I went through the same process as many have of sifting, swapping, and everything else under the sun to locate the best parts I could within my means. (some not so in my means) I guess thats why I feel for some of the other guys trying to locate parts now, My hunt is pretty much over and I have been selling off what I didn't need pretty much for what I got it for a couple years ago just to break even. Now that these cars have gained so much popularity, the prices are going through the roof and there are lots of "Junk" peddlers out there trying to make big bucks off it. (It's supply and demand)

I am 2 weeks away from completing stage two on my car and only have the interior after that. Even though expensive, I am glad there are after market re-pros. for what I need.

I probably could have built 2 Corvettes for what I have put into mine from start to present but look around and see how many Chargers are out there.... Just take pride that you have something that is a unique legend...

Just my 2 cents....

AL

[Crazy Larry]

  110%

[blackcharger]

and if you can remember the esrly '80s before the net and year one when there was nothing out there for mopars. I remember seeing newspaper ads from Chevy dealers listing brand new factory parts for '67-'69 Camaros. And I think you can build a '65 Mustang from a J C Whitney catalog.

Dave

[Mike DC]

 
I don't think the production numbers alone will cover it.  Yeah there were a ton of Corvettes made, blah blah, blah . . . but there are a lot of repro Chevy parts made that only apply to 100,000 cars while 100,000 Mopars sit waiting ten years later.  In many cases the old Chevy tooling survived on something, and that makes the difference.  But other times I just think we're getting dissed. 


Like the plastic 1969 Charger grilles:  Nothing on earth is gonna convince me that it wasn't cost-effective to retool that thing a decade ago.  The "Dukes" crew complained about not being able to get ahold of decent examples of those grilles way back in the early 1980s.  2/3 of the tooling applies to both 1968 and 1969 grilles.  So that's 170,000 cars that have always been seen as desirable when in decent shape.

The big plastic interior consoles for these cars are almost as bad.  They took a little longer to go up in price, but I still think they took way too long to show up repro'd when they finally did get harder to find.  Between all the Dodge & Plymouth B-body models, for like 3 model years in a row . . . that console probably applies to nearly half a million cars.)

 

[Chris G.]

All done. Am I going to get flamed now by the guys whose cars are finished?

I wanna flame you because you allowed your brother to buy a (cough) Corvette. I sure hope he's your big brother? 

There are many factors that go into this whole parts game. It seems as if most Mopar people want the part #'s, stampings and Chrysler approval of the parts. The problem there is, no one wants to pay the huge amount that Chrysler wants per piece. I mean really, would you be satisfied with JC Whitney crap? No, you want the correct fit and finish parts, and they will cost the vendor a bunch of cash just to pay off Chrysler for the licensing.

I don't know how the Brand X guys do it. I went to spring Carlisle, and I kid you not, you will see specialty trailers for Nova, Malibu, Chevelle, Camaro, Corvette, Firebird, Mustang, Torino and the list goes on. Who do we have parked in a trailer? Jack's, Year One...I think you get the picture. Yeah it sucks, but that's the way it is.

[AKcharger]

I'm trackin' with ya'.One big consolation is when you go to a "generic car show" you are almost Guaranteed to be the only Charger... heck only MOPAR there. It is nice to be diffrent and not be one of the multitudes of Corvettes, Mustangs or Cameros

[MassCharger73]

I'm trackin' with ya'.One big consolation is when you go to a "generic car show" you are almost Guaranteed to be the only Charger... heck only MOPAR there. It is nice to be diffrent and not be one of the multitudes of Corvettes, Mustangs or Cameros

Amen brother !

[twilt]

Well, i suppose we can all thank Ma Mopar for selling off most of the tooling and such off as scrap in the early 80`s, when they were teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
Yup, you are right on the mark............us 3rd Gen owners have it even worse. we cant even get parking light lenses re-popped.
much of what is available is junk by normal standards.   Its a no win situation. If you buy junk, the manufacturers of the junk will keep making it. If you dont buy the junk, it proves that there is no viable market for the reproduced product.

[PocketThunder]

I'm trackin' with ya'.One big consolation is when you go to a "generic car show" you are almost Guaranteed to be the only Charger... heck only MOPAR there. It is nice to be diffrent and not be one of the multitudes of Corvettes, Mustangs or Cameros

Amen brother !

BROTHA MAN!!   

[sixty6charger]

Thank God someone brought this up. I have a '66 Charger and there are virtually zero parts reproduced for these cars. peak molding, forget it; grilles, good luck brother; tail light lenses, hahahahahah; tail light surround trim, steal it off anothers; C-chromes, kiss your first born goodbye. You get the idea.

I agree with the author of this thread, I get angry when I see all the availability of parts for GM cars. Makes me dispise them even more, but if I had to do it again, I wouldn't buy another 66 Charger, no way! I'm not rich and the headache is too much. For the cost and lack of production of Mopar parts it only makes it worse that these vehicles cost so damn much, even a battered one. Like I said, I'll always love and cherish Mopars and my '66, but if it went bye-bye, I would be forced to jump ship and have my memories and photos to pass onto my son.

[rich4406bbl]

After reading this thread, it really drives home the point of buying as complete a car as possible. Preferably a running one. The "great deal" on a project car that is missing half of the parts is really not the way to go these days. Costs of NOS or clean use parts are through the roof. We all know that. Add in the fact that Mopars are HOT in the collector market and now everyone feels that the stuff they have is gold. This is not a cheap hobby!!!!!!  People have got to accept that fact. When it comes to repro parts, tooling is not cheap and the quantities are not there. For everone who wants a 69 Charger grill, how many are willing to lay down the coin? Nice to say "oh I'd buy it if I could get it for 150.00" Reality is for it to cost that little you'd have to manufacture 10,000 parts. Who has the resources to do that? GM stuff is cheap because the tooling is still available. Chrysler dumped all theirs back in the late 70's. They almost went bell-up, remember.

I scour the swap meets, ebay and other websites for parts and for me that is part of the fun. My car is not restored and it probably won't be for quite sometime. It is a driver and needs work but I drive it every chance I get and HAVE FUN with it. It is a source of enjoyment, not an obsession.

[71440charger]

i agree with you all but that is what makes our cars worth so much and mopar is makeing a come back and maybe just maybe we might not like there to be a hole lot of mopar people like the chevy and ford guys that is what makes us special we are different. if there was a bunch of us mopar people then we would not be diferent. if you all know what i am trying to say at least. take it this way we are rare ones i cannot find but like 4 or 5 mopar people in my area but there are them damn ford and chevy guys everywhere like a bunch of weeds in a garden.

[triple_green]

Patience Grasshopper,

When your  68 is done it will be worth $30K,

When his 75 Vette is done it will be worth $8K.

You might have to work a little harder, but it will be worth it.

3X

[Orange_Crush]

Its the price you pay for exclusivity.  When you park your charger at the end of a looooooong row of Generic Motors car at the next all-makes car show...you'll be glad you spent the extra money.

Veuve Clicquot is a lot more expensive than Korbel...but which would you rather drink?

[whitehatspecial]

As someone who has restored several vintage Corvettes (now working on a '68 Charger) I'd like to shed some light on this topic.

First I'd like to agree with the post regarding the importance of finding a complete car to restore. I would rather see a cleaned up original part that wasn't perfect on a car versus a brand spanking new repro part.

This brings me to my second point. The Corvette restoring has been going on for many years, and to this day it is much more important to purists (like myself) to have original parts, whether they are restored or not, to present a really nice car. I realize that some parts may be very difficult to locate and/or expensive when you do find them, but in my opinion it adds more value and validity to your car. Believe me it wasn't easy or cheap to find original parts like wiper blades, headlight bulbs, interior parts, and seat belts when I was restoring a '58 Vette when I could have simply opened up a catalogue. If you think original parts are expensive now, wait a few years. They will seem like they were a bargain. I also believe the internet and ebay have helped drive prices up in recent years and will continue to do so.

Repro parts are fine, don't get me wrong. The higher the demand gets for them the more you'll see, just be patient.

[bull]

All done. Am I going to get flamed now by the guys whose cars are finished?

I wanna flame you because you allowed your brother to buy a (cough) Corvette. I sure hope he's your big brother? 

Yea, he's 8 years older. Although I'm bigger I just decided it's not worth the effort to try convincing him that he's a goober.

As someone who has restored several vintage Corvettes (now working on a '68 Charger) I'd like to shed some light on this topic.

First I'd like to agree with the post regarding the importance of finding a complete car to restore. I would rather see a cleaned up original part that wasn't perfect on a car versus a brand spanking new repro part.

This brings me to my second point. The Corvette restoring has been going on for many years, and to this day it is much more important to purists (like myself) to have original parts, whether they are restored or not, to present a really nice car. I realize that some parts may be very difficult to locate and/or expensive when you do find them, but in my opinion it adds more value and validity to your car. Believe me it wasn't easy or cheap to find original parts like wiper blades, headlight bulbs, interior parts, and seat belts when I was restoring a '58 Vette when I could have simply opened up a catalogue. If you think original parts are expensive now, wait a few years. They will seem like they were a bargain. I also believe the internet and ebay have helped drive prices up in recent years and will continue to do so.

Repro parts are fine, don't get me wrong. The higher the demand gets for them the more you'll see, just be patient.

I agree, but it's still nice to know there's a safety net in case you just plain can't find the part you need. In many cases I just cannot find certain parts. If I were a 100% originality purist I'd be screwed because I don't believe I'll ever find an original carb for my 383/2bbl/4spd car. That particular carb is unique to 1968 383/2bbl cars with four speeds and I've never seen one. And even when our cars are 98% complete a good share of the existing parts the car comes with have issues such as the hard plastic pillar moldings with broken ends or 4 spd console top plates with pits or lower dash pads that are delaminating, etc. You can find that stuff used but more often than not those parts are no better than the ones we have and/or they cost more than last month's mortgage payment. I'll probably find all the stuff I need I'm sure but I don't think I'll ever do this again.

[Chargen69]

Its the price you pay for exclusivity.  When you park your charger at the end of a looooooong row of Generic Motors car at the next all-makes car show...you'll be glad you spent the extra money.

Veuve Clicquot is a lot more expensive than Korbel...but which would you rather drink?

I will agree with that, my car is plain, but it is all there and doesnt embarrass me.  It has amazed me how people look at it at a couple of local cruise in's.  They've walk pass real nice stuff yelling "Hey! there's a Charger"

[TruckDriver]

110%

120%

[mikepmcs]

Its the price you pay for exclusivity.  When you park your charger at the end of a looooooong row of Generic Motors car at the next all-makes car show...you'll be glad you spent the extra money.

Veuve Clicquot is a lot more expensive than Korbel...but which would you rather drink?

I will agree with that, my car is plain, but it is all there and doesnt embarrass me.  It has amazed me how people look at it at a couple of local cruise in's.  They've walk pass real nice stuff yelling "Hey! there's a Charger"

That's what i'm talking about!
I didn't get back in to mine for that but it was nice to see the other day when i drove it in to town and everyone was taking pictures of the car and stopping me and asking if they could buy it(no thank you!).  Walked out of Home Depot and 3 cars were waiting in  a line to all snap pictures of the car.  I'm proud to be a charger owner and yeah it's a crap load of money finding stuff but I think it's fun and i could think of worse things to do with my money.  

Back to the rant.  My favorite is when you walk in to a local parts store and besides stuff for dodge trucks(which i love too)  all your can find is small block chevy stuff and some ford on the shelves.


Mike

[greenpigs]

Yea, he's 8 years older. Although I'm bigger I just decided it's not worth the effort to try convincing him that he's a goober

Yes, but frogging him in the leg wouldn't be a bad thing either.

BTW goober is the nickname my sister gave me.

A cousin of mine had a 77 vette with a destroked 400 that he had trouble selling because they are a dime a dozen.

On finding parts I just want to drive my car and have everything work..if it has an incorrect switch or is missing some trim the person with the most money can buy my Charger and fix that horrible crime.
 I don't sweat the smaller stuff..now missing fenders or doors is another matter.

Some day I MIGHT get a 64-66 Mustang notchback and make a Trans Am style SCCA racer out of it, I'll be damned before I own a chevy.

[NHCharger]

When I bought my 71 back in 1995 I had no idea what I was getting into. A friend had just finished restoring a 69 Camaro convert. He was still able to buy many parts through the chebbie dealer. I stopped by a local  salvage yard right after buying my Charger. When I told the owner what I had he laughed and said good luck.
He actually did have a 72 SE way out back, just the shell with a 318 left in it, no doors, no interior, he wanted $700. for the shell and said I couldn't pick any parts off it. I paid $1,200. for my 71SE 383 and drove it home.

[hemigeno]

My Dad has always been into Model A Ford stuff, and it is soooooo irritating to thumb through his catalogs.  They not only have reproduction parts, but at least half of them are spot-on replacements for the originals.  Meaning that a lot of them you couldn't tell what was a reproduction part and what was OEM, except the reproduction stuff probably looks & fits better.  Their repair/shop manuals are awesome too, and walk you through step-by-step instructions plus occasionally give you the benefit of mistakes others have made along the way too.

Another thing about "his stuff" is that the vendors have perfected the art of Customer Service.  He will order some part, and it'll show up the next day.  I tell him that he's ordering stuff from ACME Corporation, who also supplies Wile E. Coyote.  Y'know, 10 seconds after the envelope is placed in the mailbox, a crate is dropped off...



And we all end up dukeing it out on eBay for incomplete seatbelt sets (Bull - I read your first posting  )...

[0X01B8]

Always wondered what the tipping point is for companies that make repro parts.  Production/demand/supply/etc.  I would think at some point it would be worth the trouble.  I paid somwhere over $100 for a 68 dash pad from Ted Stephens back in '92.  The rest of my interior was taken from a parts car and it's nice, but has plenty of issues.  One of my worst fears is a bird or a rock crashing through my grille.

[hemihead]

and if you can remember the esrly '80s before the net and year one when there was nothing out there for mopars. I remember seeing newspaper ads from Chevy dealers listing brand new factory parts for '67-'69 Camaros. And I think you can build a '65 Mustang from a J C Whitney catalog.

Dave

I remember those days.But I remember also being 1 of 3 guys in my area building Mopars and had my pick of parts in the local salvage yard for very cheap $$$$$.Now that owning a Mopar seems to become the latest "Fad" or "Investment" you can't find anything used (that isn't insanely priced) and New just isn't made at all.I would be happy for all the old GM and Ford guys to go back to their and I won't need the aftermarket picking my pocket for new parts.Too bad the "old" Chrysler Corp. didn't have this much support back in the late 70's and early 80"s.
Then they still would have had all the tooling.

[adauto]

I don't want to tell ya how many I sent to the shredder "back in the day". Of course aroud here even 20 years ago ..RUSTY!!

[TheGhost]

They repop even less A body Barracuda parts than they do for first gen Chargers.  REALLY makes me glad that my car is complete.

[Mike DC]

For everone who wants a 69 Charger grill, how many are willing to lay down the coin? Nice to say "oh I'd buy it if I could get it for 150.00" Reality is for it to cost that little you'd have to manufacture 10,000 parts

BTW:

I'd pay a hell of a lot more than $150 for a new '69 grille.  I just wanna have a option besides looking for months, then paying $1000 for used parts, then praying it's not a ripoff when it finally arrives.  I'd be happy to pay $500 (or more) just to know I was spending money for a decent new part.  Right now I spend even more money (and hours of my life) buying used, brittle ABS plastic that's been bolted to the front of a car since before the moon landing.

And if they'd tooled the stupid thing 10 years ago, they probably WOULD HAVE sold 10,000 of them by now!  I don't know many Charger guys who got a nice grille for their car without piecing it together from several busted ones (and still having to epoxy a bunch of places).  Most of those peiced-together & restored grilles were a likely sale that the repro market has missed now. 

 

[AirborneSilva]

And if they'd tooled the stupid thing 10 years ago, they probably WOULD HAVE sold 10,000 of them by now!  I don't know many Charger guys who got a nice grille for their car without piecing it together from several busted ones (and still having to epoxy a bunch of places).  Most of those peiced-together & restored grilles were a likely sale that the repro market has missed now. 

 

I agree, if they would start tooling up and making the parts they would eventually make a profit, yeah it may be a few years down the road but the bigger comapnies can afford to wait that long to start turning a profit.  As has been said, MOPARs are getting to be very popular so it's just a matter of time before these compaines start to wake up (well I hope they start sooner rather then later).

[Darkness]

Well, you guys are going to hate me but, us E-Body guys have repro stuff luckily which is another reason I bought my Challenger because I knew how hard of a time my dad had finding parts for his 72 Rallye Charger.

[limey]

As i thumb through the year one catalog, and suck air in through my teeth with dismay as I create my wish list. I realise how much stuff I need is unavailable...I mean I basically need an entirely new dash as mine is chopped up... I could do with new padded door tops....no such luck....I then look at the shipping cost across the atlantic and I can feel my brain haemhorraging with horror....and then I look at what there is for 1st gen and 3rd gen guys and I count myself lucky....you guys who are rebuilding your cars, or just keeping them on the road deserve respect, and it stops me from moaning about it....however, it does make you think that if you could start a company remanufacturing front fenders and dash panels etc, you could make a killing...
Limey

[Shakey]

I've always thought that trying to round up parts, the "hunt" if you will, is just as much fun as finally finding the part, restoring it and installing it.

Sure it can get frustrating at times but once you find that part, it's almost like making a big sale - a great rush!

[MassCharger73]

A friend and I recently went to a flea market ( swap meet..is this a regional term ? ) and saw a 71-4 E-B body 4 spd. console for $500. Now I know I'm frugal..OK cheap, but considering the only difference between the auto and stick is the top plate we were wondering why no one has repopped just the plate. I know it wouldn't be cheap, but on the other hand it doesn't seem to be all that intricate and they already make the vinyl woodgrain decal.