Burnt coil, after replacing wiring

[Chargerfreak]

Hi there,

Yesterday my coil got real hot with key in ignition 1 position (is that accesory position?) , to the point that the coil leaked some sort oil.

Before this i replaced all underhood wiring, not with a kit but self fabricated, replaced all bulkhead connectors.

So i started some measuring and measured voltage at the coil plus with key in ign1 position.
I don't think that should get voltage at that point right?
The voltage was like 10 or 11 volts too.

Today did more measuring until the key ignition switch,
There i found with key only in ign1 voltage on both ign1 and ign2
10.4 volts on ign1
9.7 volts on ign2

My battery reads 11.95 volts now

Voltage at coil plus with key in ign1 is 9.8 volts.

What could be wrong?

Thanks already,
Chris van der Slot

[70 sublime]

Do you have a ballast resistor in your set up ?

[Chargerfreak]

Yes i have.

I'll post a picture of my diagram a little later.

Chris.

[Chargerfreak]

Here is the diagram i got of a post of Nacho.
My car is a 68 Charger by the way.

[Nacho-RT74]

on  68s, the brown wire running between ballast and coil must be blue. It was changed to brown when the electronic regulator and dual field alt came to the game on 70 to not mix up same color running to front of the engine.

otherwise seems to be pretty much correct

on ign1 coil gets sourced throught the ballast, so voltage should be anywhere between 4.5 and 9 volt... it changes depending on temp and engine rpms ( hotter makes easier to spark up the gas, so less voltage needed )

on ign2 coil gets sourced straight from ign switch bypassing the ballast... should be a voltage close to the batt voltage ( of course switch, conectors and stuff can make a bit lower reading than the batt )

have you checked the underdash harness meets the engine harness color codes ? Ign1 and 2 could be swapped around.

you could unplug ballast and check if you still have voltage at coil on ign1 or not. If you still, wires are crossed at bulkhead. on Ign1 with ballast disconnected, coil shoudln't be sourced

[Chargerfreak]

Hi,

You nailed it Nacho, coil still sourced with ballast disconnected.
Indeed ign1 and ign2 mixed up at bulkhead, so corrected that.

Car still runs with the coil that was so hot and leaked oil, replace?

Next thing is the alt is not charging the battery. Discharge on ammeter and i measure 12.7v at the battery

Also i get no readings on most gauges except ammeter. No lights on dash too..
I did replace the voltage limiter on cluster print.

Chris.

[Nacho-RT74]

I'd say maybe mixed up at engine harness plug if underdash harness is still the original and untouched

If leaking, needs to be replaced.

When you say alt not charging you meant ammeter reading showing discharge ? or death centered ? a death centered amm reading is actual the ideal one. Some ppl think ammeter must be on charge side to know alt is working which is NOT necesary that. So please detail what's the reading you are getting

No gauges reading:
1. cluster not getting 12 volts to feed the VL
2. VL not present or death ( second one is dangerous, because can get death with points closed or open.... if closed, maybe you can say bye to the gauges too )
3.gauges death

Ammeter is a gauge what get its own life  not depending on the rest of cluster

[Chargerfreak]

Hi,

The ammeter is showing discharge.

And at the battery i only measure 12.7 volts.
That should be 13.5 volts right?
I measured this idle and revved up

I installed a new voltage regulator, a electronic solid state one
All according diagram above.

Im not sure the voltage regulator is grounded properly, is there a way to test this.
##edit## i did some testing and i do think the voltage regulator is grounded properly

Chris

[Chargerfreak]

Hi.

Did some research on my voltage regulator and found different guides on how to wire....

I have ign1 on spade and field on the nut.

Could this be wrong?

Chris

[Chargerfreak]

This is the different one i found, its from summitracing q and a

Q:
How do you wire this for a 69 Dart?
Asked by JASON on April 27, 2018

A:
If you are not racing it will not do you any good, the wire goes to the Alternation, the nut wire goes to the ignition switch.

CALVIN from MD answered on May 02, 2018

A:
The plug end goes to the ballast resistor (non ingnition side) and the wire you have to make go to the field side of the alternator.

NICHOLAS D from DE answered on April 27, 2018

A:
On my 68 GTX I was a simple exchange for the stock regulator. The fire with the fork goes on the terminal with the nut, and the other wire goes to the short lead with the plastic connector.

WILLIAM from FL answered on April 27, 2018

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[Nacho-RT74]

that blue regulator is for single field alt

[Chargerfreak]

Oh is that the reason for not charging?

I ordered it because it should belong to the 68 Charger, but i changed some stuff over the years.

What would wire wise, and electric performance wise be the best way to go?

-Get a 1 wire alternator?
-Get the right regulator
-Change some wiring?

Chris.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok lets see:

the diagram you shown is for electronic ignition and electronic regulator ( post 70 ).

On that diagram, the green wire is the regulated source, which is ground, taken by the regulator via chassis. Then sends it to the alt field. The bluw wire which comes from ign switch is constant positive. Regulator takes that source too, but just to be able to work. Both alt field brushes need to be isolated on alt to be able to work properly.

On the older setup, the regulator takes the positive from ignition switch throught the blue wire, and sends to the ONLY field with prong a regulated positive source on the green wire. Regulator needs to be grounded to be able to work, but not because sends  ground to the alt. The alt gets the other field with brush directly attached to chassis without isolation, been able to get both fields on this way.

as you can see green wire changes the signal depending on the setup BUT, is allways a regulated source no matter the pole it handles ( + or - )

so... how to solve this? dunno... you need to define what you want to do. Keep a dual field alt setup, which will require an electronic ( later ) regulator ( your wireing seems to be ready for it, althoght dunno if you cut the elect regulator plug to fit the other one ), OR modify the alt to make it work like single field and match with the older regulator setup. On this case just will need to ground one of the brushes, and won't use the blue wire running to alt field.

IMHO... electronic regulator is more stable.

[Chargerfreak]

Thanks Nacho!

Removed the blue wire from alt field and grounded that field post and were charging 13.5 to 14 volts at battery! Awesome.

I could still go to 2 wire system, get a newer regulator and electric regulator plug, all available...
I never had that plug since it's a 68 Charger..

Is the 2 wire system for some rason better?


Thanks so much,
Chris

[Chargerfreak]

Feels like im going backwards now.

Had the car running a few days ago. Noticed ammeter was pretty high on the charge side.

I took the battery out and charged it up out of the car.

Put it back in today, started the car and the ammeter went down to a little bit charging, so fine and happy.

After having the car running a little while it suddenly died.

I was still using that old coil, because i was reading the manual on the new one i have and it says remove resistor
And i first wanted to ask here how i should wire then...

I had another coil laying around and tried that one, car will not start

So i decided to do some measuring and now comes the weirdest part,

With key in ign1 i measure 12 volts at coil plus (car not running of course)
With brown wire disconnected at ballast i measure 10.2 volts

So it looks like im getting ign1 and ign2 voltage at the same time right?

Broken ignition switch? I will order a new one right now.

How to wire for the Pertronix flamethrower? Just connect ballast resisor wires to each other?

Any idea why my car suddenly died, or maybe wait till i get new ignition switch installed and new coil in place and the  ar might start again?

Chris

[Nacho-RT74]

can you unplug the ign switch and check wires independiently ? you can jump out with a jumper wire at ign switch plug.. red with brown, red with blue, once at a time to check wiring is not mixed up or shorted... that will discard the wiring or ign switch itself. Then proceed accordingly

about pertronix flamethrower coil... dunno why they say you NEED to bypass it. It seems their website says they are already internally resisted ? dunno. Myself I won't modify the wiring, because if you want to get back to a regular stock coil ( emergency situation ) you can't get it back on the easy... so you can make this:




HOWEVER I like an even CLEANER look engine bay so I suggested once to remove the resistor from back of ceramic groove and sold wires in there... This modification went popular at FBBO board ( check attachments ):

( isolate a bit the ends to save from contact with body accidentally )

with this, you won't see any weird wires around, and when returning to stock equipment just need to get also the ballast, but wiring will remain untouched

[Chargerfreak]

Ok what i've found.

I've got 2 ballast resistors here, the both let full voltage pass!

On 1 i measure 1.2 ohms and the other 1.6 ohms.

That's weird right?

And another thing i noticed is that the one field wire i grounded, is getting around 12 volts too, so im grounding 12 volts. Wire sparks too of course.
Did i u derstand you wrong?

The green wire from regulator has 12volts and when i connect that to 1 field the other field gets 12volts too, i grounded that. To the ECU bolt, probably not smart.
Did that destroy ecu maybe? Car died this mlrning and wont start anymore.

Chris

[Nacho-RT74]

Sure the green wire gets 12 volt positive ( or whatever the regulator sends )... that's how suposse to be on old mech regulator system and one field. Since you got the wiring to be wired on two fields alt, the blue wire will get 12  volts positive too because is attached to the RUN circuit down the tape. If f you had hooked up the later electronic regulator with black rubber plug, the green wire would drive negative.

I think you still have power on both ballast ends/wires from ign switch or whichever around, nothing related with ballast really.

try this... unplug ballast  and try to crank up the engine ( disconect yellow wire at starter relay too if you want not to crank the engine ). Brake light on cluster should come off when trying to crank up. If not, you have both ign stages ( 1 and 2 ) hot on both stages even without ballast. Somewhere they are spliced or shorted between them

[Chargerfreak]

Found the problem,  ECU orange box not working anymore.

Probably didnt like me giving it 12volts on the attaching bolt.

I will get a later dual field voltage regulator.

Thanks,
Chris.

[Chargerfreak]

Nacho thanks, problems solved i think.

Got a later style voltage regulator and running both field wires.

Car starts high on charge side but slowly works its way down to nearly center.

I measure 14.2 to 14.8 volts charging.

Chris.

[Nacho-RT74]

thats the correct amm reading. The initial RPMs will charge quickly the batt into 5 to 10 minutes ( depending on alt output ) then shoul db closer and closer to 0 and the best you can get is a 0 reading average.

Voltage is a bit high for my taste but still on range. Maybe driving it  will be getting better into 13.5-14 rate since the batt will recover his charging cicle.