Getting comfortable in the car, steering and seats

[roger440]

8 years after completing the restoration of my 69 charger, im still struggling to enjoy driving it.

Ive done all the usual stuff to steering and suspension and its vastly improved.

Driving it again today, i came to realise that there are 2 problems that i need to overcome.

Seats and steering wheel. In short, the driving position and support is just wrong for me.

Taking the steering first, the wheels to big, and more importantly, its just to near to me. Im 5'10 so normalish size, but the wheel is just to close. If i was further away, id not reach the pedals! So the question here is, has anyone fitted any adjustable coloumn? Is there something "period" i can fit off another mopar that would look in keeping? Clearly a flat rather than dished steering wheel would help, but i dont think its enough. Thoughts?

Also, the seats offer zero side support. Being in the UK where roads are anything but straight, thats a problem. However i see easy solutions here, ie, change the seats.

Im pretty confident with properly adjustable seats, and a steering wheel where i want it, it will at last be a pleasure to drive.

Probably should add, i really want to keep things looking as close to stock as possible, and certainly nothing irreversible.

Thoughts anyone?

[Kern Dog]

Mopar Action magazine did an article where they removed the seat upholstery and added foam along the sides of the upper and lower cushions, then had the upholstery modified to fit. This gave better side support while maintaining stock appearing stitch design.
As for the steering, I am also 5'10" but I use a flat faced Grant steering wheel in a stock column. It fit me fine but I am considering a tilt steering column from a 76 Cordoba because I spent several years with cars that had tilt columns. They are great for putting the wheel right where you want it. They also help get a better view of the gauges.
Good luck.

[darbgnik]

I'm 6'2 with the same span, and I noticed the factory wheel placement was wrong for me as well.

The 1970 and up Mopar Tuff wheel, is a flat wheel, but Chrysler installed them with a 3" or so spacer/adapter, which put it in basically the same position, although less diameter, IIRC....

So the solution I made was to install a Grant Tuff wheel replica, wrapped in leather, so it looks correct-ish.... with just a flat adapter. This moved the wheel away far enough that I even had to bend the turn signal arm back towards the dash so it wouldn't make contact with the wheel. That put the wheel in a more normal, modern position. I would recommend this to you. Pretty sure I have pics in my signature build thread.

I don't know why the wheel is so close to the driver in every classic car and truck I've sat in. It must have been what the buyers expected back then. Possibly because of the lack of power steering on some models, where you get more leverage to turn the wheel when it's closer to the chest?

As for the seats, modern replacements would be the easiest solution?

[twenty mike mike]

The six way seat is the answer to your problems, which will give you height as well as tilt options.

https://restorationpartssource.com/store/seat-track-1968-69-charger-ls-6-way-each-pgc-details.html

Shop around for price, and make sure you don't get the one for the '70 seat.

I'm not advertising that source, that's just the first that came up as a result of the search.

[b5blue]

I did same as darbgnik, all black, rubber rim kinda tuff wheel that's smaller around. Love it, had to tweak turn signal stalk for knuckle clearance like he said but what a difference!  I redid my 70's seats and new they felt slide prone but the more used the better they got. Legendary makes modified bucket seats for your car I think but do the wheel first as it really helps.   

[INTMD8]

Legendary makes (or did make) "Rallye"  seats that looked close to original but with bigger bolsters.

I put newer power Chrysler seats in mine to get seat belts as well. I'm happy with the outcome but certainly don't look original.

As for your steering wheel distance problem, you may solve that just by installing seats with adjustable back.  Driving position is perfect for me as I have them reclined much further than an original seat.

[Mike DC]

            
I've thought about this stuff too.

At first glance the problem is that the steering wheel is too close to your face.  But is it?  Or are the pedals are too far away for your leg length?  Or is it a little of both?


My suggestion:  Start by figuring out where you want your torso to be in the cabin.  Consider your arms' reach to the shifter, the dash surface, where your head & arm is located in relation to the side windows, etc.  Start with this and then move the steering wheel & pedals however is necessary.  


Steering wheels are often swapped for comfort reasons.  Guys usually get an aftermarket one with a bit less "dish" and a 15-inch diameter (rather than 16-inch stock one).   There are custom shops that can modify a factory (or reproduction) steering wheel to change the dimensions but keep it looking similar to stock.  Your bank account is the limit.  

The steering column itself can be moved too (or swapped out).  But IMO it's probably not worth it just for moderate comfort changes.  The stock steering wheel is very big and very dished.  There is a lot of low-hanging fruit to be grabbed by altering the wheel alone.

Pedals can be 'moved' by adding extension pieces onto the top (shoe) surface to "thicken" them up.  It doesn't take a very big alteration to make a noticeable difference in the feel here.  That's a good thing, because if you thicken them up by several inches then the geometry starts getting a lot more complicated.  The pivot angle, the height above the floor, angle of the shoe surface, etc.  

----------

As for the seats - unfortunately it takes major changes to the seats to get decent side bolstering.  Legendary makes those foam & cover sets with more side bolstering, which is a good start.  But I might be inclined to add some metal on the frames to help with that.  The factories would normally add a couple of metal bars reaching up a few inches (inside of where Legendary's extra side foam is) for support.  

In the big picture the stock low-back buckets just don't do anything right.  Bad comfort, few adjustments, bad safety . . . and for all those downsides, they aren't even very light in weight.  Nor are they cheap (after 50 years).  It makes more sense to start over with a totally different seat if you want to improve them significantly.  

[roger440]

Legendary makes (or did make) "Rallye"  seats that looked close to original but with bigger bolsters.

I put newer power Chrysler seats in mine to get seat belts as well. I'm happy with the outcome but certainly don't look original.

As for your steering wheel distance problem, you may solve that just by installing seats with adjustable back.  Driving position is perfect for me as I have them reclined much further than an original seat.

Seeing your seats was one of the things that got me thinking. True, anyone who knows the cars can see they are not orginal, but working with what you started with, i reckon it looks rather good. Id be happy with this look. Plus i can store the orginal seats as they are.

More importantly, you have solved one of the other issues i didnt mention, and thats the seat belts. My seat of choice, mainly because ive covered some serious mileage in them, are late model Pontiac GTO seats. Whilst the seat belt receptor is on the seat, the belt is still on the pillar in those. Are these LX platform seats?

With the current stock belts, i can only just reach the switches on the dash, so dont think id be going much further back.

[roger440]

The six way seat is the answer to your problems, which will give you height as well as tilt options.

https://restorationpartssource.com/store/seat-track-1968-69-charger-ls-6-way-each-pgc-details.html

Shop around for price, and make sure you don't get the one for the '70 seat.

I'm not advertising that source, that's just the first that came up as a result of the search.

Interesting. Not seen these before.

[roger440]

Mopar Action magazine did an article where they removed the seat upholstery and added foam along the sides of the upper and lower cushions, then had the upholstery modified to fit. This gave better side support while maintaining stock appearing stitch design.
As for the steering, I am also 5'10" but I use a flat faced Grant steering wheel in a stock column. It fit me fine but I am considering a tilt steering column from a 76 Cordoba because I spent several years with cars that had tilt columns. They are great for putting the wheel right where you want it. They also help get a better view of the gauges.
Good luck.

You specifically say a cordoba coloumn. Is that because its an easy swap? Or just a good example? Can you move it in and out as well as up and down?

[roger440]

I did same as darbgnik, all black, rubber rim kinda tuff wheel that's smaller around. Love it, had to tweak turn signal stalk for knuckle clearance like he said but what a difference!  I redid my 70's seats and new they felt slide prone but the more used the better they got. Legendary makes modified bucket seats for your car I think but do the wheel first as it really helps.   

I keep reading about these modified legendary seats, but have never managed to find them for sale, certainly not on their website? Any suggestions / link on this please?

[roger440]

           
I've thought about this stuff too.

At first glance the problem is that the steering wheel is too close to your face.  But is it?  Or are the pedals are too far away for your leg length?  Or is it a little of both?


My suggestion:  Start by figuring out where you want your torso to be in the cabin.  Consider your arms' reach to the shifter, the dash surface, where your head & arm is located in relation to the side windows, etc.  Start with this and then move the steering wheel & pedals however is necessary.  


Steering wheels are often swapped for comfort reasons.  Guys usually get an aftermarket one with a bit less "dish" and a 15-inch diameter (rather than 16-inch stock one).   There are custom shops that can modify a factory (or reproduction) steering wheel to change the dimensions but keep it looking similar to stock.  Your bank account is the limit.  

The steering column itself can be moved too (or swapped out).  But IMO it's probably not worth it just for moderate comfort changes.  The stock steering wheel is very big and very dished.  There is a lot of low-hanging fruit to be grabbed by altering the wheel alone.

Pedals can be 'moved' by adding extension pieces onto the top (shoe) surface to "thicken" them up.  It doesn't take a very big alteration to make a noticeable difference in the feel here.  That's a good thing, because if you thicken them up by several inches then the geometry starts getting a lot more complicated.  The pivot angle, the height above the floor, angle of the shoe surface, etc.  

----------

As for the seats - unfortunately it takes major changes to the seats to get decent side bolstering.  Legendary makes those foam & cover sets with more side bolstering, which is a good start.  But I might be inclined to add some metal on the frames to help with that.  The factories would normally add a couple of metal bars reaching up a few inches (inside of where Legendary's extra side foam is) for support.  

In the big picture the stock low-back buckets just don't do anything right.  Bad comfort, few adjustments, bad safety . . . and for all those downsides, they aren't even very light in weight.  Nor are they cheap (after 50 years).  It makes more sense to start over with a totally different seat if you want to improve them significantly.  

Mike, you make some good points. Although there are things to do to the original seats, im leaning towards replacements with seats from something else.

I hadnt thought about the pedals, but that might be easier than changing the column, accepting that changing the wheel is pretty straightforward. I'll look into that.

Do you have any suggestions as to a custom wheel thats looks stock? Ive not found anything? To be honest, im surprised by that. Id have though there was good sales to be had in a OE style smaller, less dished wheel. I know someone who could do this for me, but it wont be cheap!!

[Lennard]

I did same as darbgnik, all black, rubber rim kinda tuff wheel that's smaller around. Love it, had to tweak turn signal stalk for knuckle clearance like he said but what a difference!  I redid my 70's seats and new they felt slide prone but the more used the better they got. Legendary makes modified bucket seats for your car I think but do the wheel first as it really helps.   

I keep reading about these modified legendary seats, but have never managed to find them for sale, certainly not on their website? Any suggestions / link on this please?

https://www.legendaryautointeriors.com/?s=1969+dodge+charger+rally+seat&post_type=product

[Kern Dog]

Mopar Action magazine did an article where they removed the seat upholstery and added foam along the sides of the upper and lower cushions, then had the upholstery modified to fit. This gave better side support while maintaining stock appearing stitch design.
As for the steering, I am also 5'10" but I use a flat faced Grant steering wheel in a stock column. It fit me fine but I am considering a tilt steering column from a 76 Cordoba because I spent several years with cars that had tilt columns. They are great for putting the wheel right where you want it. They also help get a better view of the gauges.
Good luck.

You specifically say a cordoba coloumn. Is that because its an easy swap? Or just a good example? Can you move it in and out as well as up and down?

I actually have pulled three steering columns from Chrysler Cordobas. NONE of them were telescopic but all were tilt and had no shifter arm on them. The C body cars were available with tilt but every one of the /70 and later have been column shifted.
In 2007 or 2008, I put a Cordoba column in my Duster. After that, I planned on doing the same for my Charger. I plan to do it someday but have yet to get to that. I've done plenty of other things to the car in the meantime!

[INTMD8]

Are these LX platform seats?

They are from a 2013 Chrysler 200 convertible.

[lloyd3]

I've been looking at that 6-way seat for years.  It would be lovely to drive with that option. I should just stop  being so cheap and  get one.

[JR]

A flat wheel alone would give you an extra couple of inches. Which is huge, ergonomically speaking.

Id try that before swapping the whole column.

Also, seats are a very personal choice. Whatever kind you choose, I'd strongly recommend sitting in it before committing.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

As for the steering, I am also 5'10" but I use a flat faced Grant steering wheel in a stock column. It fit me fine but I am considering a tilt steering column from a 76 Cordoba because I spent several years with cars that had tilt columns. They are great for putting the wheel right where you want it. They also help get a better view of the gauges.

Another benefit is that tilt wheel allows more head room.

[Kern Dog]

Yeah.....
Seems many women lose that urge after the wedding ring goes on!

[Mike DC]

Mike, you make some good points. Although there are things to do to the original seats, im leaning towards replacements with seats from something else.

I hadnt thought about the pedals, but that might be easier than changing the column, accepting that changing the wheel is pretty straightforward. I'll look into that.

Do you have any suggestions as to a custom wheel thats looks stock? Ive not found anything? To be honest, im surprised by that. Id have though there was good sales to be had in a OE style smaller, less dished wheel. I know someone who could do this for me, but it wont be cheap!!

Thanks.  

As for the steering wheel, the most popular aftermarket item is probably the Grant 15" wood-rimmed one.  They sell a number of styling variations on it.  They all seem to have the same wooden rim and basic dimensions (smaller and less dished than your factory Mopar original). Grant is making at least two variations on the holes in the spokes and there are many different logos/caps for center of it.  




Original '64 Mopar wheel on the left, one of the 15" Grant versions on the right:




If you want something that really looks stock then you are going to be paying for a custom altered stock one.  No way around that.  

[RallyeMike]

A simple thing I have been doing for a while is to move the mounting bolts for the seat tracks forward 1 inch to the end of the track. It doesn't seem like much, but the 1 inch of extra leg and arm room makes a difference. Its also something that nobody typically notices if you are trying to keep the stock look.

[roger440]

Are these LX platform seats?

They are from a 2013 Chrysler 200 convertible.

Thanks

How hard was it grafting the original headrests to the newer seats?

[roger440]

A simple thing I have been doing for a while is to move the mounting bolts for the seat tracks forward 1 inch to the end of the track. It doesn't seem like much, but the 1 inch of extra leg and arm room makes a difference. Its also something that nobody typically notices if you are trying to keep the stock look.

Nice trick! im OK on leg room though.

[roger440]

Mike, you make some good points. Although there are things to do to the original seats, im leaning towards replacements with seats from something else.

I hadnt thought about the pedals, but that might be easier than changing the column, accepting that changing the wheel is pretty straightforward. I'll look into that.

Do you have any suggestions as to a custom wheel thats looks stock? Ive not found anything? To be honest, im surprised by that. Id have though there was good sales to be had in a OE style smaller, less dished wheel. I know someone who could do this for me, but it wont be cheap!!

Thanks.  

As for the steering wheel, the most popular aftermarket item is probably the Grant 15" wood-rimmed one.  They sell a number of styling variations on it.  They all seem to have the same wooden rim and basic dimensions (smaller and less dished than your factory Mopar original). Grant is making at least two variations on the holes in the spokes and there are many different logos/caps for center of it.  




Original '64 Mopar wheel on the left, one of the 15" Grant versions on the right:




If you want something that really looks stock then you are going to be paying for a custom altered stock one.  No way around that.  

To my mind, all the aftermarket wheels look exactly that. You could say, why are you worrying, given you are changing the seats? which is a valid viewpoint, but i think im just going to have to spend out and get a custom wheel made with spokes that mimic the orginal whee, but without the dish.

[INTMD8]

How hard was it grafting the original headrests to the newer seats?

Not difficult. Here is some info-

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,131364.msg1680436.html#msg1680436

[roger440]

How hard was it grafting the original headrests to the newer seats?

Not difficult. Here is some info-

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,131364.msg1680436.html#msg1680436

Thanks 

PS, what size tyres are you running on that?

[INTMD8]

Wheels-

Rear 15x10  5.5" backspace

Front 15x8  4" backspace

Tires-

245-60-15 and 295-50-15  made by Diamondback on Bfg radial T/A's.

[6pkrtse]

I have the six way seat in my red Charger. I am 6' and have no complaints about being uncomfortable while driving. The extra adjustments definitely help.

[roger440]

Wheels-

Rear 15x10  5.5" backspace

Front 15x8  4" backspace

Tires-

245-60-15 and 295-50-15  made by Diamondback on Bfg radial T/A's.

Thanks

[VegasCharger]

A simple thing I have been doing for a while is to move the mounting bolts for the seat tracks forward 1 inch to the end of the track. It doesn't seem like much, but the 1 inch of extra leg and arm room makes a difference. Its also something that nobody typically notices if you are trying to keep the stock look.

Are you referring to this? (see pic) This a '68 Charger seat track and it has 3 square holes for positioning. The factory usually puts the studs in the middle square. I have yet to see a stud in any of the 2 other holes. But they got to be there for a reason??

Since my driver's side tracks need new studs anyway, I'm going to place them in the most forward square (red arrow) to position my seat more reward. I'll leave the pass. side studs in the middle unless I deem it necessary to move them. No one will even notice but I really don't care if they do.

[darbgnik]

Are you referring to this? (see pic) This a '68 Charger seat track and it has 3 square holes for positioning. The factory usually puts the studs in the middle square. I have yet to see a stud in any of the 2 other holes. But they got to be there for a reason??

Since my driver's side tracks need new studs anyway, I'm going to place them in the most forward square (red arrow) to position my seat more reward. I'll leave the pass. side studs in the middle unless I deem it necessary to move them. No one will even notice but I really don't care if they do.

I looked at doing this when I replaced the carpet in my 70 years ago. IIRC, I gave the bolts a couple light whacks, and when they didn't budge, I just left them, as it was a secondary task, and I was more interested in getting the carpet completed than adjusting the seat. The studs are in there pretty good.

[b5blue]

The studs are swedged (sp?) in place I believe. I put a bigger socket over the head with the bracket removed and braced to pound the bolt out. (Replaced with grade 8 hardware.)