What GM transmissions clear the trans tunnel without cutting?

[JR]

Dude, I literally started a post asking for the least intrusive transmission I can use because I didn't want to cut up the car. I adore the car, and was asking for input from guys with more fabrication experience. This is about as non intrusive a swap as it gets. It can be removed without a trace in a weekend.

Im not out to irritate anyone. I really don't care. I'm not an idiot, I don't get my rocks off by trolling people on forums.

It has nothing to do with being hard up on cash. I'm simply bored with the 440, and hemis aren't worth the cost to me.

Bill Gates could easily afford a 100 thousand dollar Patek Phillipe watch, but he wears a 50 dollar Casio. I'm going to guess the expensive watch isn't better enough for him to justify the cost gap. I'm certainly not bill Gates, but you see my point.

[Mike DC]

        
Some guys cringe at seeing a gen3 Hemi in a classic Mopar.  It doesn't share anything with the old motors.  It's made in foreign factories.  

Some of us think it's hurting the essence of the car to swap in a Ford-based coil spring front end.  
The Borgeson steering box conversion is just a modified GM part too.  

This thread started out discussing GM auto trans conversions.  Those are somehow less blasphemous if the kit seller re-names it an "A41" instead of the "4L60E."  Or if they take what is basically a Ford 5spd and call it a "Tremec TKO".  

Engines?  It's a step farther, yeah. But it's only a matter of degree.  The car industry crosses engines from brand-to-brand sometimes.  Or even whole re-badged cars.  


Whatever.  This forum is not DodgeEngines.com.  It's DodgeCharger.com.  I fail to care about an occasional LS swap.  The other day some asshole crushed a whole rebuildable Charger just to be a troll.  

[c00nhunterjoe]

Im not a purist. Have you seen my car? Lmao. Im just trying to grasp your reasoning for the ls swap because it doesnt make sense. None of them. I dont care what engine or trans you use. But for the guy who doesnt want to alter the car, but wants to go autocross and have it handle like a modern car..... well, you are not going to do that without altering the car and a hump in the floor pan is the least of your worries.

[c00nhunterjoe]

If you are tired of your 440, then come for a ride in mine to see what they can really do, reliably.

[Kern Dog]

If cost is a factor, I have yet to see a breakdown of the expenses.
Look, you owe nothing to anyone here. It really does come down to the fact that it is your car to do with as you wish. Posting on a forum is like talking to people in a room. By airing your business, you are going to get opinions.
I hate off brand engine swaps in American cars. I've seen Jap engines put in A-Body cars, Cummins Diesels in Musclecars, Chevy 350s in Ford street rods and I have never liked it. I have a buddy that wanted to put a Toyota 22R in a '64 Valiant. I told him it was a stupid idea to make the car slower with no real gain in economy. Now he is considering an all electric motorcycle. Great guy but his head is just not screwed on right. The time and expense to build something like his will never balance out, moneywise.
I don't mind the transmission swaps, the brake swaps and even seats. When I see a swap using an off brand part that does NOT seem to be any better than something available  within the family, I get annoyed. At that point, it seems like the work is more of a matter of doing it to be different or to impress some people.
I hate the coil over front suspensions. I think that they cost too much and are a step backward in durability. I can see the appeal of a Ford 9" axle if a man wants a gear ratio that is unavailable in a Dana or an 8.75.
I understand that there are a bunch of drag racers that take a Camaro or a Malibu and swap in a 200,000 mile LS with a Chink turbo and have less than $5000 in their car. Good for them...Mash it until it blows up.
The Charger though....
I don't see the price difference that you state. Engine mount kits are available. It took awhile but the engine controllers are finally available too. The 518 is far more durable than any GM 4L60 trans.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Ive been told my head isnt screwed on tight... but then i also convinced a gm guy to put a dana 60 in his 64 olds over a 12 bolt because it was cheaper and stronger....

[Mike DC]

                
Probability of this thread getting fixated on the LS decision instead of the trans question:  100%

[garner7555]

While I have no plans to LS swap my Charger, I can understand where you're coming from.   You want a modern drivetrain swap, and the LS is the most economical way to do that.  The Ford coyote swap would be the second most economical way to go and the modern Hemi would, by far, be the most expensive.   Once again, I don't want to LS swap my car, but I can totally understand your thinking.  If you wanted to spend the same amount of money as a 6.4L Hemi swap then you could probably do an LS7 swap and have tons more power for the same money.       GM drivetrain will always be cheaper then Mopar, that's just how it is.        Since everyone is saying the 518 is a better transmission, could you cut the bell off and run a adapter to run the 518 behind an LS? 

[Mike DC]

  
The 518 is a decent option but it still has drawbacks.  


It takes less severe hacking than the bigger trans swaps, but it still takes hacking.  Most of the crossmember around the hump gets removed.  

The fluid pan (and the valvebody inside it) hangs down 1" lower than muscle-era 727s.

The 1st and 2nd gears are unchanged from the 727s, which means they are relatively high.  

The bell is one piece with the rest of the housing.    

[JR]

While I have no plans to LS swap my Charger, I can understand where you're coming from.   You want a modern drivetrain swap, and the LS is the most economical way to do that.  The Ford coyote swap would be the second most economical way to go and the modern Hemi would, by far, be the most expensive.   Once again, I don't want to LS swap my car, but I can totally understand your thinking.  If you wanted to spend the same amount of money as a 6.4L Hemi swap then you could probably do an LS7 swap and have tons more power for the same money.       GM drivetrain will always be cheaper then Mopar, that's just how it is.        

100 percent dead on Garner.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Economical? Maybe for a junkyard swap but not to actually build one to perform as keeps being stated.... a GOOD aluminum ls block is 5000 bucks... a GOOD set of aluminum ls heads are 4,000. All of the prices to build an ls are in line with any other make. The cheapest engine to build is the old gm pushrod v8 283/327/350 style. But that is not what we are discussing here.
   The trans is no different. A 4l60 that will survive for a little while behind what the op wants to do is going to cost upwards of 5k. And its not going to live. Period. Why? Because the 4l is about the same size as the turbo 350 it replaced... wait- how did they do that? Oh, thats right, they made everything inside smaller and in turn, weaker. And you want to dump it in a 2 ton car with a potentially upgraded ls engine... its gonna scatter. I dont care how good it is built, the case is not large enough to accommodate the power. And street tires dont mean a thing to make it live.
   I dont care what brand, what style, what color parts you put into your car. Ive done enough builds of all makes to tell you that you are about to waste a bunch of money. I cant stop you, its your car and your money. But i will be sitting here watching the build crash and burn ready to say i told you when you are having fitment issues and parts start failing. I beat the dead horse here to try and help you NOT go down that path. But there is only so much you can do.

[Mike DC]

                      

The cheapest engine to build is the old gm pushrod v8 283/327/350 style. But that is not what we are discussing here.

I wonder which would cause more griping in a Charger in 2019 - a SBC or an LS?  


Granted, it's not relevant to the original question.  He basically wants an LS because of how it differs from a SBC.

[Kern Dog]

Maybe work a deal with THIS guy ??

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/541942133246389/

[JR]

Joe, I gotcha man. The 4l60 is gonna break eventually. I hear that loud and clear. I see I can use a th350 or 4l80 and eliminate this issue. Which I still may. Understood 100 percent.

I'm not chasing a 1200 hp turbo build here. I'd probably be content with an iron block 5.3 and a cam swap/tune. I'm not shooting for the moon with horsepower. Maybe one day down the road.


Honestly, id be happy with this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hotrod.com/articles/70hp-5-3l-ls-isky-cam-swap/amp/

[c00nhunterjoe]

Joe, I gotcha man. The 4l60 is gonna break eventually. I hear that loud and clear. I see I can use a th350 or 4l80 and eliminate this issue. Which I still may. Understood 100 percent.

I'm not chasing a 1200 hp turbo build here. I'd probably be content with an iron block 5.3 and a cam swap/tune. I'm not shooting for the moon with horsepower. Maybe one day down the road.


Honestly, id be happy with this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hotrod.com/articles/70hp-5-3l-ls-isky-cam-swap/amp/

The 5.3 in that link will scatter a 4l60.

[Kern Dog]

After having 2 or 3 transmissions conking out, wouldn't the overall time and expense be about the same?

[JR]

After having 2 or 3 transmissions conking out, wouldn't the overall time and expense be about the same?

I really thought the Mopar faithful would be appreciative of me not wanting to cut the floor in a rust free R/T. Fine. 4l80 it is.

[Kern Dog]

After having 2 or 3 transmissions conking out, wouldn't the overall time and expense be about the same?

I really thought the Mopar faithful would be appreciative of me not wanting to cut the floor in a rust free R/T. Fine. 4l80 it is.

Hey...You are starting to sound as logical as the guy that crushed the car because he thought people were not willing to pay his crazy price for it.

[flyinlow]

Everything breaks eventually.

I have a 2002 Z28 with 80K. on it . LS is fine. 4l65E (or what ever number it is) is fine. Rear axle I have fixed twice.

Drop the stuff in. Post some pictures. Have fun.

And remember, Chevy engines and transmissions are like Lawyers ... no body gets upset if you kill one.

[JB400]

Personally, I'd think the cost and the time involved  to install a ls would be  comparable to just sticking with a Mopar brand engine.

[Kern Dog]

I was wondering what you'd have to do to the K member to make motor mounts work. Would the steering box and linkage pose fitment problems? What kind of throttle design do they use? ALL GM transmissions have the cooler lines on the right side too. What would you use for a shifter ?

[JR]

I was wondering what you'd have to do to the K member to make motor mounts work. Would the steering box and linkage pose fitment problems? What kind of throttle design do they use? ALL GM transmissions have the cooler lines on the right side too. What would you use for a shifter ?

C5 Corvette engine mount brackets are popular with the few guys who have done the swap. The GTO used a rear sump oil pan. If not, there are countless aftermarket ones available. I will likely use an earlier throttle body that used throttle by cable instead of the later drive by wire. (Personal preference, I hate drive by wire.) I will likely fab the trans crossmember from scratch, and will figure out shifter linkage when I get there.  There are a ton of different applications for the LS, and each has its own pulley arrangement with the accessories in a different location. It won't be hard to find one.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Mounts are not bad to fab in any swap. If you drop the k frame, or even go tubular as that is bolt on and non intrusive, you could probably drop the whole frame and drop the custom trans crossmember, change the pinion angle, and possibly fit the 4l80 without any floor modifications. The lowered drivetrain would help with distribution in the autocross aspect as well.

[JR]

I'm down for the tubular k frame. That's a good idea. That would free up more room for the oil pan and accessories, too.

[myk]

Whatever happened to this swap?  I really hope you didn't go with the 4L60; my '97 Camaro Z28 and '99 Ram Air Firebird are bone stock, never get driven hard and are lighter than our Chargers but eat 4L60's all day long.  I hope you went with something stronger...