60 Dart Seneca 2dr.

[lloyd3]

There is a significant list of things to be concerned about. The taillights stay on, draining the battery. The windshield wipers work intermittently,  it runs a scoush warm, the carb needs a rebuild (accelerator pump issues and it won't hold fuel for easy restarts), the radio doesn't work, etc. You know....60-year old car problems.  Much like 50-year old car problems.

[b5blue]

This will help with all the old crusty electrical connections: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,70039.0.html

[lloyd3]

B5 blue:  Thankyou for that one. Dealing with insurance on it today. American Collector's  is dirt cheap but he can't drive it until he's 21.

[lloyd3]

My son is chomping at the bit to get this car on the road. However, he's finally realizing just how much that entails.  I've bent the rules a little to allow for some very limited on-road activities, but the window for that has now closed. Insurance and registration is the next financial hurdle for him and he's figuring out just how hard that is to do on a fast-food job budget.  It is so-temping to just step in and fix it all for him (both mechanically and financially), but that destroys the opportunity to learn the real lessons that count here.  It's likely going to be sitting for a while now.  

[lloyd3]

Since "B" bodies officially began production in 1962, what is this unit? I know the chassis was derived from a Plymouth design. What did they call the various body lines in the late 1950s?

[Nacho-RT74]

sorry if is not easy to read but had to reduce the image to upload it. They simply were splitted into small and large bodies. But by 60/61, it was just one plattform for every Mopar made but Imperials ( which it was chassis yet ) and the brand new Valiant

[lloyd3]

Nacho R/T74:  Most excellent! Thank you. So....not a B-body, a pre-B body but still considered a "standard" size.  Not overly heavy but...certainly not "light" either.

Also,  I didn't realize that there were 3 B-body variants. Neat.

[lloyd3]

Just watched this episode of Gomer Pyle.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrKXQ3Qmq5o

[djcarguy]

There is a significant list of things to be concerned about. The taillights stay on, draining the battery. The windshield wipers work intermittently,  it runs a scoush warm, the carb needs a rebuild (accelerator pump issues and it won't hold fuel for easy restarts), the radio doesn't work, etc. You know....60-year old car problems.  Much like 50-year old car problems.

get some deox electrical goo clean an coat all contacts an grounds?  wd40 lube brake pedal an brake lite switch? clean fuse box?tooo?

[Nacho-RT74]

Nacho R/T74:  Most excellent! Thank you. So....not a B-body, a pre-B body but still considered a "standard" size.  Not overly heavy but...certainly not "light" either.

Also,  I didn't realize that there were 3 B-body variants. Neat.

I wouldn't say Pre B body or Standard size on this first unybody launch. It's an unique unibody option. Actually I think the difference between the Dart and the Polara series on 60/61 Dodges is the wheelbase. Must be something similar with Chryslers.

Oh and yes, 3 B bodies matching with the Coronets/Belvederes generations, althought some ppl consider the 73 and lates as a 3rd and a half generation due the isolation setup added on these

[lloyd3]

We've had quite the education on long-nose and short-nose starters lately. Ebay seems to have what you need until you realize that many (if not most) sellers don't really know exactly what they have.  The hard lesson for my son about all of that is the money lost on the shipping stuff back and forth.  He's also had a hard time waiting for me to get home and freed-up from chores to work on the car with him, so he often proceeds without me. That is good in that he's learning alot.  The bad news is the law of unintended consequences keeps rearing it's ugly head.  I keep telling him that progress must be very deliberate, that you don't want to introduce any more variables than necessary as you go through things.  It's a process, I suppose.  He wont have his licence until next March and much needs to be done before then.

[b5blue]

While he's chomping at the bit get him to check out this sight:  http://www.bcae1.com   It's got great explanations and interactive schematics that allow component's values to be changed. (Like ever wonder how large a speaker wire really needs to be?) 

[lloyd3]

This car has a pretty archaic braking system (single master cylinder, duel wheel-cylinders). It works, but... not up to what it needs to be to compete with modern traffic. I've researched some of the disc brake conversion kits and am trying to decide which one to focus on. Has anybody here already done this on a car from this period? None of it is cheap, obviously, and most of it will require some modifications on the firewall for mounting the new master cylinder. Is plug and play to much to hope for here?

[DAY CLONA]

This car has a pretty archaic braking system (single master cylinder, duel wheel-cylinders). It works, but... not up to what it needs to be to compete with modern traffic. I've researched some of the disc brake conversion kits and am trying to decide which one to focus on. Has anybody here already done this on a car from this period? None of it is cheap, obviously, and most of it will require some modifications on the firewall for mounting the new master cylinder. Is plug and play to much to hope for here?

lloyd3,


The brake system on these cars is total crap, I'm in the same boat with my Daughter's 61 Plymouth, after a little research/discussion on what other's have done for a "bolt-on" remedy, I'm going with the bolt on Scarebird front disk swap, their brackets/Cordoba rotors and Caddy calipers, along with Pirate Jack's A body booster/master/bracket/adj PV system to eliminate the single pot set up...

The rear brakes/axle are a nightmare as well as far as service/parts... much easier to swap in a 70-74 E body rear end for easily serviceable drums/parts or future rear disc brake swap

Mike

[lloyd3]

Mike:

What a great suggestion, thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.  I was flailing about and couldn't focus enough undistracted time on the subject. I also know just enough to be dangerous. Much appreciated!!!

[lloyd3]

My son and I got the single barrel Carter BBS carb rebuilt and back on the car and the little slant 6 is now purring like a kitten. It had clearly been worked on before and that individual got a few things wrong that we corrected.  Question: still a little hesitation coming off of idle. Don't know if it's accelerator pump travel or something else. Adjustments to the pump are limited to bending the linkage to shorten or lengthen it. I can make it travel a bit more but that hasn't been the obvious cure. Any suggestions?

[lloyd3]

Registered and titled the car today as something of a Christmas present to the boy. We then attempted to pass Colorado emissions with it. I figured it was a 50/50 chance that it would pass (it still has a somewhat smoky idle) but....they wouldn't even test it as it had an oil leak(!) if you can believe that one. Looks like it needs a new gasket on the fuel pump. We went to the NAPA store for that and a few other odds and ends and then went grocery shopping for mom.  Pretty wild parking lots everywhere we went today (December 24th!) but he and the car did just fine. On the way home, however... it stopped shifting up into 2nd and 3rd. So much for that little Christmas present!!!

[Back N Black]

Man! that's a sweet ride.

[lloyd3]

Thankyou! We've got a ways to go before it deserves that title, but...it has potential.

[lloyd3]

Well.....you can call me the King of Snake Oils now. Fairly mild weather here today (50s) and sunny with only light winds, so the boy and I went out and pulled the cover off of the old Dart.  He replaced the leaking gasket on the fuel pump and I installed the new thermostat (a 160 as it's been running a bit warm).  Got it started and then.....the snake oils came out. First was the can of Rizlone Ring-Seal (which reminded me for all the world of Motor Honey!), then we drizzled some (about a third of the bottle) of the Marvel's Mystery oil down the carb as it was at high-idle. Smoked like a fiend for all that but it settled down and seemed fine. The rest of the big bottle of Mystery Oil went into the gas tank. We then took it out and drove it around the neighborhood and let the snake oil do it's stuff.  Since the transmission has been unwilling to shift out of 1st, we just took it easy and puttered about. After about a half hour the engine smoothed out and stopped smoking (!). Even better, shortly after that the transmission started to up-shift. We took that opportunity to head off to the auto parts store for....you guessed it, more "Snake Oil"! This time it was Seafoam Trans-Tune. Added half of that 16-ounce jug to the system and set out again. We drove around a bit more and the erratic (and somewhat harsh) shifting seemed to settle down even more. Bought some gasoline (10 gallons) and headed home, where I adjusted the arm on the accelerator pump for slightly more stroke and then set the idle up just a smidgen (it was stalling occasionally when coming off idle). After that I went ahead and added the last of the Trans-Tune to the old 904 and we set back off for a few more local tours.  Net net, the car is running much more smoothly and the push-button automatic is back in service.  I'm guessing that a fluid change and a new filter is called for now?  Always more to do on these relics, eh? The next hurdle is an emission test. This time nothing is leaking.

[b5blue]

Attaboy! Congrats to you!

[lloyd3]

We've been driving this old relic around quite a bit for the last few days. My son straightened the grill out a bit (looks like maybe an encounter with a snowdrift at sometime in it's past life?). Doesn't look quite so snaggle-toothed now.  Some real fenders would be the next image improvement.

The oil leak was finally determined to include the valve cover gasket. Finding one locally was something of a feat. Had to order one and then wait.  Another byproduct of these old cars....the wreck of the Andrea Doria doesn't leak as much fluids are this one does. Not so much leaks maybe, more like spills from the 16-year old mechanic working on it.

[lloyd3]

Beauty in simplicity. By a wide margin, the easiest valve cover gasket replacement I've ever participated in...



The next project will be to get the radiator boiled and rodded-out. It's clearly not cooling adequately. This copper unit has aged fairly gracefully and I can't see any bad spots, but who knows?  

From looking at this photo, does the engine look like its been run hot for a long time? It sure does to me or...is that just 60 years of grime? I don't suppose that there is yet another "snake oil" that I can add to the crankcase to clean it up a bit?  One sees lots of stuff on YouTube about ATF?

[DAY CLONA]

From looking at this photo, does the engine look like its been run hot for a long time? It sure does to me or...is that just 60 years of grime? I don't suppose that there is yet another "snake oil" that I can add to the crankcase to clean it up a bit?  One sees lots of stuff on YouTube about ATF?

If your looking to de-sludge the motor, the best method I've found is to do it slowly, with every oil change substitute the last qt of oil with a qt of kerosene/diesel fuel, run it for about a 1000 miles, don't rush the process as it will really load up the pan/oil pick up/filter with sludge, your first oil/kerosene-diesel fuel/filter douche I would do at 500 miles just to see how much sludge you remove from the engine, after that 1000 mile changes, it may take a while until you start seeing clean results at oil changes to determine that you've pretty much licked the sludge issue

Mike

[TiMopar]

Seriously cool car, good luck with it : ))