Hotchkiss Fast ratio pitman /idler arm

[slumbers]

Hi Guys ,
I'm trying to improve the feel and quality of my 68 Dodge Charger R/T steering and have just done the modification to reduce the pump pressure which has improved it somewhat . I'm thinking of purchasing a Hotchkiss Quick ratio Pitman arm/ idler kit from Mancini racing but has anyone fitted it with 1 7/8 " TTI header's at all ?  Would they need modifying to allow clearance or would the kit just bolt in ? Any advice would be very welcome ....

[b5blue]

Have you installed a smaller steering wheel? (Tuff wheel and the like.) I did and it feels faster. 

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I tried on mine and it wasn't even close to fitting. Idler arm went directly into the tube. I would have had to cut the entire header tube off and move it to get it to work.

[Kern Dog]

I don't know about the Hotchkis stuff but the Firm Feel F/R arms fit my 440 with 2" headers.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Never realized how big of a difference there was between the 1 7/8" and 2" headers. The cylinder #4 tube is completely different and gives it a ton of more space. The 2" were overkill for my engine but I should have bought them anyway so I could have made the fast ratio arms work.   

[garner7555]

That is the story of my entire build, buy one part thinking you are making the right choice, only to wish you had went a different direction.       I guess that is why we enjoy it so much.   haha     

[slumbers]

I don't know about the Hotchkis stuff but the Firm Feel F/R arms fit my 440 with 2" headers.

Thanks for all the advice and Photographs .Can you remember if the Firm Feel Arms are similar in profile to the standard ones and Longer  ? (1 1/2" ) I have read somewhere as looking at my own car with TTI 1 7/8" Headers it looks like it would be OK on the Drivers side but will slice through the tubework on the Passenger side Guess this is not going to Happen !

[Kern Dog]

I wish that I could be more help.
In my situation, I wanted the FR arms and when I was under my car, I could see how well the headers cleared the stock Idler and Pitman. Because of that, I felt safe putting the longer FR arms in. They still clear by 1/2" or more. I'll have the car on my lift tomorrow or Sunday and try to get pictures from other angles.
TTI states in the instructions that the FR arms DON'T clear but mine do. The motor mounts are stock type, everything is in the factory position, it isn't as if the engine is fore or aft from stock either.

[JR]

I have hedman shorty headers and the fast ratio arms wouldn't clear them.

[garner7555]

I went with a Borgeson box in my car.  I know it's expensive, but I couldn't be happier with it.  It is another option for faster steering using the factory arms.   

[Brass]

I went with a Borgeson box in my car.  I know it's expensive, but I couldn't be happier with it.  It is another option for faster steering using the factory arms.   

I have the Borgeson box as well, and the return-to- center seems a little slower/lazy.  Also getting some annoying humming. I am running it with hydroboost. No issues for you? (Sorry for the hyjack.)

[Fitz73Chrgr]

Yeah no way the fast ratio arms fit with TTI headers, I think the TTI website even says that.  

I had to clearance my STOCK pitman arm to get to clear my TTI 1-7/8" longtubes.  I did not want to take a hammer to my new $1000 headers.

My car is a 383, you might get more room with the higher deck of the 440 if that's what you've got.

[garner7555]

I went with a Borgeson box in my car.  I know it's expensive, but I couldn't be happier with it.  It is another option for faster steering using the factory arms.   

I have the Borgeson box as well, and the return-to- center seems a little slower/lazy.  Also getting some annoying humming. I am running it with hydroboost. No issues for you? (Sorry for the hyjack.)

I have had no issues.  You might try adding more positive caster to the alignment to help the return to center feel, IIRC I am running almost 5* caster.  I haven't noticed any humming, but my car is loud and so is my fuel pump so I might not notice it even if it was making a little noise.  If you hear the noise inside the car it may be the hydroboost.         Which hydroboost setup are you running?  That is something I want to add.

[Brass]

I went with a Borgeson box in my car.  I know it's expensive, but I couldn't be happier with it.  It is another option for faster steering using the factory arms.   

I have the Borgeson box as well, and the return-to- center seems a little slower/lazy.  Also getting some annoying humming. I am running it with hydroboost. No issues for you? (Sorry for the hyjack.)

I have had no issues.  You might try adding more positive caster to the alignment to help the return to center feel, IIRC I am running almost 5* caster.  I haven't noticed any humming, but my car is loud and so is my fuel pump so I might not notice it even if it was making a little noise.  If you hear the noise inside the car it may be the hydroboost.         Which hydroboost setup are you running?  That is something I want to add.

The caster came in at 7* with QA1 uppers, so that shouldn't be the problem.  The idler arm bushing checked out too - nothing is binding.  Hopefully it will loosen up a little in time.  The hydroboost I am using is a Hydratech unit from Reilly Motorsports.  It is a couple years old now and has a 1-1/8" bore master.  I am pretty happy with it.

[Kern Dog]

Yeah no way the fast ratio arms fit with TTI headers, I think the TTI website even says that.  

I had to clearance my STOCK pitman arm to get to clear my TTI 1-7/8" longtubes.  I did not want to take a hammer to my new $1000 headers.

My car is a 383, you might get more room with the higher deck of the 440 if that's what you've got.

You don't read other posts before responding, do you?
I posted earlier that I have Fast Ratio arms in my car with 2" TTI headers. They clear.

[Fitz73Chrgr]

Yeah no way the fast ratio arms fit with TTI headers, I think the TTI website even says that.  

I had to clearance my STOCK pitman arm to get to clear my TTI 1-7/8" longtubes.  I did not want to take a hammer to my new $1000 headers.

My car is a 383, you might get more room with the higher deck of the 440 if that's what you've got.

You don't read other posts before responding, do you?
I posted earlier that I have Fast Ratio arms in my car with 2" TTI headers. They clear.

You don't read posts either, do you, brainiac?  

I have 1-7/8" inch headers, like the OP asked about.  You have 2", which per the post above that you did not read, are routed differently.  Therefore, your input is not the end-all-be-all.

You really ought to knock your cockiness down a notch, no one is impressed.

[Kern Dog]

Nobody is impressed?   
Son of a bitch....I am really disappointed. I wanted to make you so proud and now you tell me this. I'm going to have to completely rethink my whole approach. 

It would make conversations so much easier if people would look over their posts before hitting the REPLY button. So often, people think that they wrote what they meant but words get left out. Sometimes it matters, sometimes it does not.

Your words:
"
Yeah no way the fast ratio arms fit with TTI headers, I think the TTI website even says that. 

I had to clearance my STOCK pitman arm to get to clear my TTI 1-7/8" longtubes.  I did not want to take a hammer to my new $1000 headers.

My car is a 383, you might get more room with the higher deck of the 440 if that's what you've got."

Look at it again. You wrote in the first sentence that NO way the FR arms fit with TTI headers. To be accurate, you should have wrote 1 7/8" TTI headers.
If you leave room for interpretation,  it can get muddy real fast. Your second sentence did mention the size BUT who was it that posted pictures of the 2 sizes?

I do see that the two sizes do have different routing of the pipes. I was not aware of that. I wonder why they would choose to do it that way? Why wouldn't they use duplicate patterns and just change the pipe size? Is it because they are lazy?

I agree....Your input in this thread was more helpful. I based my position on the belief that the TTI headers were routed the same for both sizes. To me, it only makes sense to do it that way. WTF goes through the minds of these companies? Why have so many different shapes and sizes? Same goes for oil filters. WHY are there so many different ones when they all do the same thing? Why did the automakers make B pillar 2 doors and also hardtops at the same time? WHY? What sense did that make? It requires more parts inventory, more tooling, different assembly practices, different doors, windshields, side glass, etc....