Will Electric Cars Outsell Internal Combustion

[Ponch ®]

 In my mind [hybrids] are the worst of both worlds....it's full electric or stick to fossil fuels...until hydrogen fuel cells take over in 20 years or so.

yes and no. I can see that w/ a conventional "parallel" hybrid. But plug-ins are definitely better. As  I mentioned in my previous post, were it not for my unusually long commute, I could go days or weeks w/out using any gas on my Volt. that being said, I don't have to worry about running out of juice because I have the gas engine to fall back on. I'll go full electric when I can do a good 400 miles on a single charge, given how often I have to drive to remote places for work.

[b5blue]

A local shop near me said they are seeing more and more Hybrids coming in with hammered gas engines and weak or troubled battery issues. They are finding nobody has the lump of cash to spring for a battery so they run the crap out of the gas engine. 

[Aero426]

A local shop near me said they are seeing more and more Hybrids coming in with hammered gas engines and weak or troubled battery issues. They are finding nobody has the lump of cash to spring for a battery so they run the crap out of the gas engine.  

These cars need to be viewed as devices.    While your example above is not a Tesla, I am sure the average Muskian buyer views his car like a very expensive Iphone.     He's not going to keep it forever.  When the next big thing comes out, he'll trade on that.      

If you were ever going to just lease a car and walk away, an EV would be perfect.  

[Ponch ®]

A local shop near me said they are seeing more and more Hybrids coming in with hammered gas engines and weak or troubled battery issues. They are finding nobody has the lump of cash to spring for a battery so they run the crap out of the gas engine.  

These cars need to be viewed as devices.    While your example above is not a Tesla, I am sure the average Muskian buyer views his car like a very expensive Iphone.     He's not going to keep it forever.  When the next big thing comes out, he'll trade on that.      

If you were ever going to just lease a car and walk away, an EV would be perfect.  

that sounds about right. I find it increasingly less likely that I feel "attached" to a new car the way I do to older/classics. I think the last modern car I had that "thing" with was my 2008 Charger R/t, but i owned it for 8 years and did a lot customizing/modding to it and hated to see it go. Ive since owned two newer challengers and two chargers - theyve come and gone or will go. Do I like my Volt? yes. would i get rid of it if something nicer and newer came out an it was time for an upgrade? absolutely.

[odcics2]

Cars are becoming appliances.   

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Wind up cars are far cleaner than those nasty coal powered electric cars.

[Lennard]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hatav_Rdnno&t=779s

[Aero426]

Imagine buying a fully loaded used Tesla, and after you purchase it,  $8000 of high end features that were on the original window sticker just disappear.   Because "you" didn't pay for it.   They actually decontented the guy's car over the air.   

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-removes-autopilot-features-from-customer-1841472617?rev=1580941196331

[Mike DC]

Imagine buying a fully loaded used Tesla, and after you purchase it,  $8000 of high end features that were on the original window sticker just disappear.   Because "you" didn't pay for it.   They actually decontented the guy's car over the air.  

It's Tesla today.  It will be GM & Ford & Mopar tomorrow.  


We're headed for a future where your car needs mandatory software updates just to run.  Pretty soon they'll start hiding codes in there to make it lose HP or MPG after a certain number of miles if you don't pay for some extra package.  Etc.  As cars become computers with wheels we will get screwed worse and worse.  What are you gonna do when a big dashboard screen craps out and the replacements are discontinued?


This stuff was preventable back when we had a Congress on the public's side.  The only reason the OEMs even stock replacement parts for 10 years after a vehicle is made is because of an old law.  (There goes Big Govt again.  They're always "making it impossible for companies to do business" with their stupid regulations . . . ) 
         

[BSB67]

Imagine buying a fully loaded used Tesla, and after you purchase it,  $8000 of high end features that were on the original window sticker just disappear.   Because "you" didn't pay for it.   They actually decontented the guy's car over the air.  

It's Tesla today.  It will be GM & Ford & Mopar tomorrow.  


We're headed for a future where your car needs mandatory software updates just to run.  Pretty soon they'll start hiding codes in there to make it lose HP or MPG after a certain number of miles if you don't pay for some extra package.  Etc.  As cars become computers with wheels we will get screwed worse and worse.  What are you gonna do when a big dashboard screen craps out and the replacements are discontinued?


This stuff was preventable back when we had a Congress on the public's side.  The only reason the OEMs even stock replacement parts for 10 years after a vehicle is made is because of an old law.  (That was a case of "Big Govt meddling in a private industry" and "preventing the companies from doing business efficiently" when they should have been "letting the market decide".) 
         

I have a made a sizable commitment to Sonos speakers.  Apparently Sonos, based on recent announcements, does not feel any obligation to support their products after about ten years.  Wish I would have known that.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

And you thought smoking at the pump was risky....

[odcics2]

Imagine buying a fully loaded used Tesla, and after you purchase it,  $8000 of high end features that were on the original window sticker just disappear.   Because "you" didn't pay for it.   They actually decontented the guy's car over the air.  

It's Tesla today.  It will be GM & Ford & Mopar tomorrow.  


We're headed for a future where your car needs mandatory software updates just to run.  Pretty soon they'll start hiding codes in there to make it lose HP or MPG after a certain number of miles if you don't pay for some extra package.  Etc.  As cars become computers with wheels we will get screwed worse and worse.  What are you gonna do when a big dashboard screen craps out and the replacements are discontinued?


This stuff was preventable back when we had a Congress on the public's side.  The only reason the OEMs even stock replacement parts for 10 years after a vehicle is made is because of an old law.  (That was a case of "Big Govt meddling in a private industry" and "preventing the companies from doing business efficiently" when they should have been "letting the market decide".) 
         

I have a made a sizable commitment to Sonos speakers.  Apparently Sonos, based on recent announcements, does not feel any obligation to support their products after about ten years.  Wish I would have known that.

Todays technology is throw away...  10 years??   They will be obsolete way before that, the way things go!   

[Ghoste]

I know at one time, the Canadian Auto Workers union had it in their list of socialist utopian dreams was an idea that no one would own cars, they would only lease and the manufacturers would have to take back all cars sold to be recycled.  The suggestions here about leasing your rolling iphone appliance mobile fall easily into that.

[Mike DC]

      

I know at one time, the Canadian Auto Workers union had it in their list of socialist utopian dreams was an idea that no one would own cars, they would only lease and the manufacturers would have to take back all cars sold to be recycled.  The suggestions here about leasing your rolling iphone appliance mobile fall easily into that.

That battle will be coming with technology in general.  The better to repeal our rights as consumers.  


If you are technically only "leasing" your car/phone/computer/television/etc then you don't have the right to repair it yourself when it breaks.  You don't have the right to modify things about it that you don't like (but the company does).  You cannot refuse their software updates (which might just be intentionally making it perform worse, to encourage you to upgrade...) Etc.  You pay for it but they still control what you can do with it.  

People won't voluntarily agree to this setup if they have a choice.  But companies can stop offering the choice.  


This nightmare is not here yet.  But things are definitely drifting in this direction.  It's what happens when govt does not protect the public from predatory corporate behavior.

[Ghoste]

Corporations can be a lot like the modern evolution of feudalism.

[odcics2]

Rollerball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVUxK1mNups


Well on the way to getting there... 

[Ponch ®]

     



That battle will be coming with technology in general.  The better to repeal our rights as consumers.  


If you are technically only "leasing" your car/phone/computer/television/etc then you don't have the right to repair it yourself when it breaks.  You don't have the right to modify things about it that you don't like (but the company does).  You cannot refuse their software updates (which might just be intentionally making it perform worse, to encourage you to upgrade...) Etc.  You pay for it but they still control what you can do with it.  

People won't voluntarily agree to this setup if they have a choice.  But companies can stop offering the choice.  


This nightmare is not here yet.  But things are definitely drifting in this direction.  It's what happens when govt does not protect the public from predatory corporate behavior.

This. I don't get why people only freak out when it's certain things that they care about (cars, in this instance) but are totally ok when it comes to their freedoms / choices being impinged on other things because they believe "its a good thing", or its for "security",  or its the guy/gal they voted for doing it.  

[alfaitalia]

Just watched last Sunday's TOP GEAR....UK version...not that joke you put out over there!...anyway they had the New Porsche Taycan Turbo S (turbo?..lol). All electric, 700 horses, four doors...very impressive review. It's 800 volt rather than 400 most use and on the right charger it only takes 20 minutes to charge it enough to do 200 miles....that's getting there. Drives like a true Porsche should, quite a nice sound and they had it sideways everywhere (4 wheel drive of course)....Looks great too.... The down side?..it's a mere £140,000...about $181,000!

[BSB67]

Just watched last Sunday's TOP GEAR....UK version...not that joke you put out over there!...anyway they had the New Porsche Taycan Turbo S (turbo?..lol). All electric, 700 horses, four doors...very impressive review. It's 800 volt rather than 400 most use and on the right charger it only takes 20 minutes to charge it enough to do 200 miles....that's getting there. Drives like a true Porsche should, quite a nice sound and they had it sideways everywhere (4 wheel drive of course)....Looks great too.... The down side?..it's a mere £140,000...about $181,000!

I posted about the Porsche 800 volt battery and 22 minute recharge to 85% three months ago.

[b5blue]

For 150K it should have battery packs waiting like my cordless DeWalt!

[Ponch ®]

Just watched last Sunday's TOP GEAR....UK version...not that joke you put out over there!...anyway they had the New Porsche Taycan Turbo S (turbo?..lol). All electric, 700 horses, four doors...very impressive review. It's 800 volt rather than 400 most use and on the right charger it only takes 20 minutes to charge it enough to do 200 miles....that's getting there. Drives like a true Porsche should, quite a nice sound and they had it sideways everywhere (4 wheel drive of course)....Looks great too.... The down side?..it's a mere £140,000...about $181,000!

I read somewhere that the architecture of the latest 911's was designed so that it will eventually accommodate either a hybrid or full electric drivetrain. Exciting times!

[Aero426]

I read somewhere that the architecture of the latest 911's was designed so that it will eventually accommodate either a hybrid or full electric drivetrain. Exciting times!

I believe you are correct about that.   It's coming.   

[Ponch ®]

I read somewhere that the architecture of the latest 911's was designed so that it will eventually accommodate either a hybrid or full electric drivetrain. Exciting times!

I believe you are correct about that.   It's coming.   

I'm so getting in on that when it happens.

[alfaitalia]

Just watched last Sunday's TOP GEAR....UK version...not that joke you put out over there!...anyway they had the New Porsche Taycan Turbo S (turbo?..lol). All electric, 700 horses, four doors...very impressive review. It's 800 volt rather than 400 most use and on the right charger it only takes 20 minutes to charge it enough to do 200 miles....that's getting there. Drives like a true Porsche should, quite a nice sound and they had it sideways everywhere (4 wheel drive of course)....Looks great too.... The down side?..it's a mere £140,000...about $181,000!

I posted about the Porsche 800 volt battery and 22 minute recharge to 85% three months ago.

Missed that one!!!

[Ghoste]

And what are thoughts regarding battery life and replacement costs?