Will Electric Cars Outsell Internal Combustion

[Mytur Binsdirti]

"it froze into a yellow blob"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdUsyXQ8Wrs

[odcics2]

Turns out the place was closed for a few years.
How much got into the groundwater before making it to the freeway? 

Public official: "No immediate threat."   

[odcics2]

Officials say yellow-green chemical oozing onto I-696 poses no threat to drinking water, air quality

[BSB67]

Officials say yellow-green chemical oozing onto I-696 poses no threat to drinking water, air quality

Hex chrome will not have a air impact.  Its pretty mobile in soil, so I would assume there is some threat to ground water, but how much will depend on local site geology.  And arguably, if no one is drinking local ground water, technically, there is no threat.

[odcics2]

Officials say yellow-green chemical oozing onto I-696 poses no threat to drinking water, air quality

Hex chrome will not have a air impact.  Its pretty mobile in soil, so I would assume there is some threat to ground water, but how much will depend on local site geology.  And arguably, if no one is drinking local ground water, technically, there is no threat.

The thing is that it was leaking for 3 years before it finally surfaced.  Whatever got into any underground drains went to Lake St. Clair.  Detroit picks up it's water downriver of that lake.  I already had cancer 10 years ago.  I don't need anymore.    

[odcics2]

More info, trickling out -

https://www.wxyz.com/news/owner-of-company-behind-green-ooze-on-i-696-dug-a-pit-to-store-37-000-gallons-of-hexavalent-chromium

Former business owner serving time in jail.

Thousands more toxic sites in Michigan with no money to clean it up.  

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-environment-watch/michigan-has-7300-toxic-sites-money-cleanups-almost-gone

The map of Michigan looks like it has measles. 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Greeeeeaaaat. 

[odcics2]

Greeeeeaaaat. 

Keeps getting 'better'...   That idiot owner dug the 20' x 50' earth floor waste pit below the basement of his building in 1993.

All of Michigan's watershed eventually drains into the Great Lakes.         

[BSB67]

Greeeeeaaaat. 

Keeps getting 'better'...   That idiot owner dug the 20' x 50' earth floor waste pit below the basement of his building in 1993.

All of Michigan's watershed eventually drains into the Great Lakes.         

But not form a basement pit.

None the less, the guy deserves jail time

[odcics2]

Greeeeeaaaat.  

Keeps getting 'better'...   That idiot owner dug the 20' x 50' earth floor waste pit below the basement of his building in 1993.

All of Michigan's watershed eventually drains into the Great Lakes.        

But not form a basement pit.

None the less, the guy deserves jail time

Actually, it does get into the ground water and that ends up getting into the aquifer.  Gravity eventually feeds that into the 50+ feet lower lake St. Clair.

That assclown is currently serving time. They are looking at additional charges.   

[alfaitalia]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that you will not be able to buy a new petrol (gas to you!), diesel or hybrid car in the UK after 2042....Well today the UK government has bought that date forward to 2035...and it's likely to move forward again as we are well ahead on the infrastructure and the cars are leaping forward in tech and range. Also we were unlikely to meet our near zero overall emissions target if we left it until 2042. All of a sudden a change that seemed ages away looks pretty close.

[BSB67]

The momentum this has is incredible.  In Automotive News there is nearly a daily continuous stream of stories and information on where all the majors are going with their EV programs, schedule and dollars.  Nothing about internal combustion engines....nothing.

Couple things I remember:
Toyota will have an electric option for every model by 2025
Cadillac will be all electric by 2030
Audi will have 30 EV models by 2025.
GM will offer an electric truck in 2021
Electric Hummer and Cybertruck in 2022
Tesla Model S hits 380 mile range
GM commits $2.2B to battery plant for 2022 production start up
GM Cruise Origin, autonomous EV dedicated to ride sharing - 2022
EV investment GM-$10 B, VW-$12B, Ford-$11B
Boston Globe forecast 51% of market will be EV by 2030.

How many Super Bowl automotive commercials dedicated to internal combustion vehicles?  Were there any?

Yep, they'll never figure our this battery thing.

[70 sublime]

The momentum this has is incredible.  In Automotive News there is nearly a daily continuous stream of stories and information on where all the majors are going with their EV programs, schedule and dollars.  Nothing about internal combustion engines....nothing.

Couple things I remember:
Toyota will have an electric option for every model by 2025
Cadillac will be all electric by 2030
Audi will have 30 EV models by 2025.
GM will offer an electric truck in 2021
Electric Hummer and Cybertruck in 2022
Tesla Model S hits 380 mile range
GM commits $2.2B to battery plant for 2022 production start up
GM Cruise Origin, autonomous EV dedicated to ride sharing - 2022
EV investment GM-$10 B, VW-$12B, Ford-$11B
Boston Globe forecast 51% of market will be EV by 2030.

Yep, they'll never figure our this battery thing.

And nothing from Dodge ??

[BSB67]

You mean FCA.

The announced merger of FCA with PSA is to help jump start FCA's lagging EV program.  They did announce Jeep is to spend $10B on EV in the next 2 years

[BSB67]

VW is head long and committed to EV.  They're planning 1.5M in sales in 2025.  Honda thinks that EV's have already leveled out and they are not betting on a big shift to EV.  Kinda funny.

[Aero426]

GM commits $2.2B to battery plant for 2022 production start up

Do you know what they built at this plant previously?     An electric car that did not sell (the Volt).   

[Aero426]

VW is head long and committed to EV.  They're planning 1.5M in sales in 2025.  Honda thinks that EV's have already leveled out and they are not betting on a big shift to EV.  Kinda funny.

All correct.  And if you are VW, you had better be right.

Ironic that the preachy Audi Super Bowl ad portraying gas powered cars as "dirty" come from the ever-so-smug Germans who brought us Dieselgate.     Oh yeah, we're just supposed to "let it go".

[BSB67]

VW is head long and committed to EV.  They're planning 1.5M in sales in 2025.  Honda thinks that EV's have already leveled out and they are not betting on a big shift to EV.  Kinda funny.

All correct.  And if you are VW, you had better be right.

Ironic that the preachy Audi Super Bowl ad portraying gas powered cars as "dirty" come from the ever-so-smug Germans who brought us Dieselgate.     Oh yeah, we're just supposed to "let it go".

No, don't let it go.  But also you should not necessarily judge the entire corporation based on the misdeeds of a few.

[Aero426]

The momentum this has is incredible.  In Automotive News there is nearly a daily continuous stream of stories and information on where all the majors are going with their EV programs, schedule and dollars.  Nothing about internal combustion engines....nothing.

Couple things I remember:
Toyota will have an electric option for every model by 2025
Cadillac will be all electric by 2030
Audi will have 30 EV models by 2025.
GM will offer an electric truck in 2021
Electric Hummer and Cybertruck in 2022
Tesla Model S hits 380 mile range
GM commits $2.2B to battery plant for 2022 production start up
GM Cruise Origin, autonomous EV dedicated to ride sharing - 2022
EV investment GM-$10 B, VW-$12B, Ford-$11B
Boston Globe forecast 51% of market will be EV by 2030.

How many Super Bowl automotive commercials dedicated to internal combustion vehicles?  Were there any?

Yep, they'll never figure our this battery thing.

Except that unless it is a Tesla, to date, no one is buying.  

Did you catch the 2019 final sales results?   Tesla sold 58% (!) of all EV's in the United States.     I attribute this to the perceived cool factor.   It's like Apple to some people.   Everything else is uncool.  

How dismal are current EV sales in the USA?      The number of Hellcats produced in 2019 would put them in the top 10 of all EV sales.  

https://insideevs.com/news/343998/monthly-plug-in-ev-sales-scorecard/

[Aero426]

This is a typical "It won't be long now!..." article that we are inundated with on a daily basis, predicting a sea change in the industry.    It quotes one Xavier Mosquet of the Boston Consulting Group.      The best part is the quote buried in the article about ride sharing not gaining traction as quickly as previously predicted.

One other finding could come as a big surprise to those who've been predicting a big shift away from personal vehicle ownership as ride-sharing services like Uber and Lyft gain traction. But the new study finds that costs for these services aren't likely to come down as quickly as expected, even if driverless vehicles take over.

"The ambitious forecasts for shared cars (have been) based on the idea we would shed car ownership" in large numbers, said Mosquet. "We don't see that happening, now that we have more data on the shelf. Someday, it could become cheaper than owning a car (but, right now), owning a car is cheaper except in a few places like Manhattan."

And with EVs expected to become less and less expensive to own and operate, Mosquet says fewer motorists will be willing to give up the freedom and flexibility of having a car in the driveway and always at the ready."

Well no kidding, Sherlock!   You do not need a Masters to figure out that people will be slow to abandon the personal freedom of an automobile, whether it is a Chevy Spark or whatever fancy car Mr Mosquet drives, or is driven in.    The point is,  no one knows what is really going to happen.     I think it will happen much faster in Europe and Asia, largely to government decree.    But elsewhere, bold predictions now are all subject to revision in the future.  

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2020/01/evs-at-the-tipping-point/

   

[BSB67]

This is a typical "It won't be long now!..." article that we are inundated with on a daily basis, predicting a sea change in the industry.    It quotes one Xavier Mosquet of the Boston Consulting Group.      The best part is the quote buried in the article about ride sharing not gaining traction as quickly as previously predicted.

One other finding could come as a big surprise to those who've been predicting a big shift away from personal vehicle ownership as ride-sharing services like Uber and Lyft gain traction. But the new study finds that costs for these services aren't likely to come down as quickly as expected, even if driverless vehicles take over.

"The ambitious forecasts for shared cars (have been) based on the idea we would shed car ownership" in large numbers, said Mosquet. "We don't see that happening, now that we have more data on the shelf. Someday, it could become cheaper than owning a car (but, right now), owning a car is cheaper except in a few places like Manhattan."

And with EVs expected to become less and less expensive to own and operate, Mosquet says fewer motorists will be willing to give up the freedom and flexibility of having a car in the driveway and always at the ready."

Well no kidding, Sherlock!   You do not need a Masters to figure out that people will be slow to abandon the personal freedom of an automobile, whether it is a Chevy Spark or whatever fancy car Mr Mosquet drives, or is driven in.    The point is,  no one knows what is really going to happen.     I think it will happen much faster in Europe and Asia, largely to government decree.    But elsewhere, bold predictions now are all subject to revision in the future.  

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2020/01/evs-at-the-tipping-point/

   

agreed

[Ghoste]

I wonder how the Mustang Mach E will go over?

[Aero426]

I wonder how the Mustang Mach E will go over?

It won't steal any Tesla buyers.   But I think it will sell well enough to introduce the Ford customer base and the dealer network to the idea of electrification.   That part about the dealers buying in is equally important.  

Ford also has to get the car to market.   Fall 2020 really means spring 2021 to me.  

[Ponch ®]

GM commits $2.2B to battery plant for 2022 production start up

Do you know what they built at this plant previously?     An electric car that did not sell (the Volt).  

Volt was ahead of its time in a way. Not exactly sure why GM gave up on it right as the EV/Plug in craze is going into full effect. Ive had one for a year, needed something efficient and that would give me access to the carpool lanes here in SoCal when I took a job w/ a 60+ mile commute. It's a great little car.  I've put 40K miles on it in the year I've had it and had no issues whatsoever. It does have the cheap/crappy interior that we all know and love in our domestic vehicles.

The 50 mile (more like 35-40 in real world conditions) all-battery range is not enough for my drive, but switching between full EV and hybrid mode I still get 45 mpg. My wife drives it around town when im out of town for work, and she loves the fact that she can go a whole week without using any gas at all. She's sold on EV/hybrid cars, and quite frankly so am I. I have no problem with going all electric for a daily as long as I still have a gas guzzler to play with on weekends. Next car is going to be a Tesla, Jaguar I-Pace, or something new that may come out. A hybrid / plug in / all EV Grand Cherokee would be ideal, but FCA is spinning its wheels.

Anyway, I read something about Jeep coming out w/ a plug in Wrangler?

[alfaitalia]

In this continent no serious money is going in to hybrids....as they will be banned with gas/diesel engines in 10 to 15 years...so no point. In my mind they are the worst of both worlds....it's full electric or stick to fossil fuels...until hydrogen fuel cells take over in 20 years or so.