Can you run the smaller A/C water pump pulley without A/C ?

[Canadian1968]

The water pump pulley for A/C cars was a lot smaller than a pulley for a car withoUT it.

Can you put the smaller a/c pump. On to speed up the water pump rotation  ?

[John_Kunkel]

You will speed up the pump by using the smaller pulley but risk cavitation. Some disagree.

[cdr]

It would also speed up the fan & down here in Southeast TX that is a good thing.

[A383Wing]

if you use the AC water pump pulley, you must use the correct AC water pump with it....otherwise the non-AC pump will try to spin the water too fast and cause cavitation and the car will overheat...don't ask how I found this out


Bryan

[cdr]

At what rpm does it have cavitation , just asking for a friend .

[Canadian1968]

I'm sure everyone figured it out but I ment smaller PULLEY not pump haha.

I have multiple questions .
1. What is  different about an AC water pump? I have been looking at ALOT of pumps over the last couple weeks and have not seen a single one advertised for an AC car.
2. I would really like to understand this spinning to fast thing. And cavitation . I mean there are different builds every where that run much higher RPM than a stock or even mild built 440.  I haven't done the math yet but I dont think the smaller pulley (I think approx 1") difference isnt going to send the pump rpm into orbit ?
.

[A383Wing]

I knew exactly what you meant....you want to put a smaller pulley on the W/P to spin it faster...problem is, you need the AC water pump itself....it has less vanes and they are smaller in length....to make up for the difference in pulley size....there are numerous threads on just this topic in here...one is even a sticky in the engine section....do a search and read the other replies if you still have doubts

IF you put a smaller pulley on a non-AC water pump, it will start cavatating water inside the water pump housing and car will overheat...I did the same thing back in the early 80's to my car...going down the freeway temps hit 220*+....once I got the correct pulley matched with the correct water pump...car runs steady 180* ever since without changing anything else

Go ahead and put the smaller pulley on and drive it...just be sure to have a tow truck number handy to get you back home....

Bryan

[cdr]

I knew exactly what you meant....you want to put a smaller pulley on the W/P to spin it faster...problem is, you need the AC water pump itself....it has less vanes and they are smaller in length....to make up for the difference in pulley size....there are numerous threads on just this topic in here...one is even a sticky in the engine section....do a search and read the other replies if you still have doubts

IF you put a smaller pulley on a non-AC water pump, it will start cavatating water inside the water pump housing and car will overheat...I did the same thing back in the early 80's to my car...going down the freeway temps hit 220*+....once I got the correct pulley matched with the correct water pump...car runs steady 180* ever since without changing anything else

Go ahead and put the smaller pulley on and drive it...just be sure to have a tow truck number handy to get you back home....

Bryan

Mine works great non ac pump & all

[Canadian1968]

Im not saying anyone is wrong. But I have done some reading and just a bit more as per your order 

And what I find in that no 2 post are the same . In one post I read that the AC PUMP has 8 blades but smaller surface area per blade
then I find this post http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=103238.0;all

and it talks about a 6 blade with dia of 3.5" being the AC pump.  This is actually exactly what I just pulled out of my car last night. The car is not an AC car. 

And look at the Flow Kool pump that has 16 blades on it....

then we can get into the pumps with the plate welded to the blades , my understanding is that this is prevent the dreaded cavitation! 

So if I listen to one post ... I am running an AC pump with a non ac pulley .  And I am having  overy heating problems in Hot temps at stop lights . So some belive I should just install a AC pulley ?

The rest of the cooling system is good

[A383Wing]

run a standard 8 vane non-AC water pump and your temps should stabilize

Bryan

[Canadian1968]

Well I have a proform aluminum , hi flow on the way. Will see what happens !

[b5blue]

  After following links and reading bunches I've still to find pulley part numbers however I found this at Mancini, compare the A/C to non A/C about 1 inch difference in diameter.
https://www.manciniracing.com/wapupu1.html

[b5blue]

And I found this pump's 3rd pic looks to have a plate with the blades.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=344472&cc=1085420&jsn=428

[Kern Dog]

Im not saying anyone is wrong. But I have done some reading and just a bit more as per your order 

And what I find in that no 2 post are the same . In one post I read that the AC PUMP has 8 blades but smaller surface area per blade
then I find this post http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=103238.0;all

and it talks about a 6 blade with dia of 3.5" being the AC pump.  This is actually exactly what I just pulled out of my car last night. The car is not an AC car. 

And look at the Flow Kool pump that has 16 blades on it....

then we can get into the pumps with the plate welded to the blades , my understanding is that this is prevent the dreaded cavitation! 

So if I listen to one post ... I am running an AC pump with a non ac pulley .  And I am having  overy heating problems in Hot temps at stop lights . So some belive I should just install a AC pulley ?

The rest of the cooling system is good

Welcome to the internet. Plenty of people willing to give free advice...and some of it is worth just that.
It sucks, too.....I sometimes hesitate to trust a vendor because you suspect that they only want to sell you something whether you need it or not. Then there are these anonymous people online with advice that is easy to give out when it isn't their money or time being spent.
I too have heard both sides: 6 blade being A/C, 8 blade being A/C, spin too fast and the engine overheats, spin too slow and it overheats....
I have slowly come to realize that the factory was often pretty savvy with the way that they engineered things like this. Following what they did should at least get you close to your goal.

[b5blue]

  With all the possible combinations of radiators, pumps, thermostats, pump housings, fans, pulleys and shrouds over the years along with aftermarket variations it's no wonder that 50 years later we are having issues with cooling.  My big stainless steel flex fan cooled my car for 20 years just fine. Too big to be shrouded it pulled so much air it didn't matter what pump/pulley I had. Then I added A/C and the fan blades tips were in the compressor's clutch. 6 fan type/combos later (I lost track of the R.&D. budget $$!) I'm running a fixed factory fan and added pusher up front for extended idle times.
  I'm glad for this topic as I didn't know about the big/smaller pulley deal or the many pump variations. 

[Canadian1968]

well my pump is supposed to show up today . We will see what it looks like , size and number of blades .

The other super annoying part is ALOT of manufactures do not give you a picture of the blades on the pump and do not tell u in the disscription.  If the pump I get is the same size diameter and number of blades, I mays look at the summit or tuff stuff pump which I know are 8 blade pumps

[Canadian1968]

  After following links and reading bunches I've still to find pulley part numbers however I found this at Mancini, compare the A/C to non A/C about 1 inch difference in diameter.
https://www.manciniracing.com/wapupu1.html

Yes I checked these out and did some calculations at 1000 rpm the smaller ac pulley would spin 200 rpm faster.

[fizz]

The milodon water pump with their high flow 180* themostat cured any overheating problems I had.

[b5blue]

well my pump is supposed to show up today . We will see what it looks like , size and number of blades .

The other super annoying part is ALOT of manufactures do not give you a picture of the blades on the pump and do not tell u in the disscription.  If the pump I get is the same size diameter and number of blades, I mays look at the summit or tuff stuff pump which I know are 8 blade pumps

I looked at bunches of pumps and very few show the impeller, why I've drawn attention to the ACDelco, nice big impellers that reach the entire housing pump cavity and have the disk like Milodon's. (Mine will be here Fri. so we will see.)

[Canadian1968]

Got my new water pump today . It is the Proform high glow aluminum version.  From the picures you can see the over all impeller diameter is much bigger as well the individual blades are much bigger . And of course the aluminium version  is lighter .

Going to install and will give some updates ?

[Canadian1968]

a

[b5blue]

 

[Kern Dog]

The new one sure looks like it will move a LOT more water with each revolution.

[b5blue]

Here is my Rockauto ACDelco 35.00 pump:

[Canadian1968]

well geez looks like i paid about $70 more than I should have !!

I fired up the car last night , Also put in a 180 HF stat that I had , instead of the 160 I was running.  From what I can see there is more coolant flow at idle with Hi flow.  It was fairly cool last night about 16 degreee C.  So i didn't get a TRUE test. But I let the car run for about 15 mins with the rad cap off to allow any air out of the system.  The temperature did not get about 180 - 190 according to my gauge , hood closed in a garage with no real air flow.  I also checked temps with my lazer thermometer and get 170 at the thermostat housing. I assume longer run times with heat soak the housing more and bring readings up higher.

Interesting fact:  I always thought I was running a 3 core rad,  I bought it off a member here years ago, honestly can't remember if it was quoted as a 3 core or not.  End story it is only a 2 core aluminum rad ! But if its works , perfect !