Old lights at night.

[lloyd3]

Does anyone know if there a plug and play replacement for the stock headlight and dash systems on these cars? I don't normally drive this car much at night, but last night was an exception. My son had a 7PM music lesson and it was a spectacular mid-September evening so we took the old car.  It gets dark now much earlier, so the ride home was in the dark.  My high beams are like everybody else's low beams and my dash lights are so dim I can barely make out the gauges.  Clearly, my low-beams could stand some alignment (not exactly sure how to do that anymore either) but....wow, they are so weak by comparison to the modern stuff.  In a perfect world, I'd get the "newer" and "better" versions of the headlights and dash lights and just plug them in, right?  I'm guessing that's not the case or I would of heard about it by now.

[Eldovert]

You could get better headlights..they would draw more current so you  should install a relay for the headlight circuit. Check ebay for a harness with a relay.
Cheers,Pat

[c00nhunterjoe]

Depends on how much cash you want to lay out. There is everything from halogens up to led. Add relays regardless of what you use to save the switch.

[lloyd3]

There's the rub...I don't want to really change much in the original wiring of this car.  In a more-rural area, my present lights wouldn't be so-much of a problem.  In pitch darkness they would be adequate for the rare occasion of me driving it at night.  It's all the hard-driving 6-lane, suburban traffic (with much-better lights) and then all the peripheral lighting (street and business) that overwhelms my stock systems. I was hoping to improve them without having to go to the next step of relays and other wiring modifications.  Even slightly better would be a significant improvement.  I suppose even replacing the dash lights with newer bulbs would help (I'm guessing that one or two aren't all there).

[TexasStroker]

I'd go with LEDs in the Cluster and up front.

LEDs in the Cluster will go in just like the incandescents you pull out.  Might take note that the factory bulb covers are blue...so having a bulb that puts out light will showcase that...probably for the first time ever, lol.  That said, I think it would work well with your car and interior in particular.  Some love it, some hate it and want a more traditional warm glow.  Imo the visibility and white/blue light would be better.

LED headlights would require a new housing, and that is where most of your money would go.  The more simplistic and cost effective way about it would be to swap in some halogen bulbs and do the relays.  The sealed beam headlights are ridiculous and pretty much useless when combating modern traffic.  You can get standard halogen housings and H1/H4 or similar for around $25 a piece.  Keep in mind, to do it proper you would need 4, but could get by with just your low beams.  These bulbs would be more on par with our 2nd Gen Rams.  Not great by modern standards, but a huge upgrade over sealed beams.

[lloyd3]

If you happen to know, what will the LED housings likely cost and how challenging are they to install?  I'm assuming that would be the least invasive solution?  I was hoping that somebody made a sealed beam replacement with LED-type internals as some of the more-modern cars (90s) can get now.

Did a little looking. Is anyone familiar with these folks? https://vintagecarleds.com/  

They do not mention needing to install additional components or relays.  They do, however, indicate that high-beams might not be an exact replacement. The low-beams appear to be fine (round, 5.75-inch) and fit all of the early Mopar (specifically Charger!) years are mentioned in their replacement sizing charts. Not cheap at $329/pair, but....not out of the question either.   There are even three light colors that you can get, in a lumins range from a warm yellow, to brite white, to a bright blue (if I'm reading it right).  I'd be tempted by the warm yellow but would likely go with the bright white.

[lloyd3]

Just found this....

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/04/29/simple-led-headlight-upgrade-for-classic-cars

Just went through the ordering process, $209 total for a set of low beams that should just be a direct replacement for the original sealed beams.  Is this too good to be true?

[c00nhunterjoe]

You can make the relay harness plug and play. Dont have the cut anything. Brighter lights are going to melt your factory harness. Pick your poison.

[krops cars]

I went with led headlights. Awesome. My dash I redid it and used factory bulbs. I cleaned everything and put a new plastic lens over the gauges. Led dash bulbs do not dime. The way I did mine turned out nice.

[lloyd3]

c00nhunterjoe:  where might I find such a relay harness?  I know just enough to be dangerous and I don't want to wreck my original lightswitch.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Just found this....

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/04/29/simple-led-headlight-upgrade-for-classic-cars

Just went through the ordering process, $209 total for a set of low beams that should just be a direct replacement for the original sealed beams.  Is this too good to be true?

Be careful with the LED headlights that have the built in fan as they stick out too far and will hit the headlight door actuator bar. I had to get a 90 degree bulb to get mine to fit.

[tan top]

been thinking about converting the headlamps for years  to more modern search light type    via relays  to stop melting the OEM wiring & switches  as CHJ  mentioned below .   as for the instrument cluster gauge bulbs rather than fitting leds , all I done was remove the blue shades inside, made a lot of difference &  was good enough for me , think ive got a picture somewhere , sure I posted it for another thread on here years ago . one thing if upgrading lights & any electrical none OEM stuff , its advisable to up grade the alternator & charging circuit  also  imo .
 stock alternators don't charge very well at idle even with OEM electrical stuff  

You can make the relay harness plug and play. Dont have the cut anything. Brighter lights are going to melt your factory harness. Pick your poison.

[krops cars]

Mine fit perfect. You do not need heavier wiring. The ones I got have glass lens not plastic. I will do this and recommend these to every one that has old school cars. They are the s--t. No cutting fit perfect.

[TexasStroker]

Just found this....

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/04/29/simple-led-headlight-upgrade-for-classic-cars

Just went through the ordering process, $209 total for a set of low beams that should just be a direct replacement for the original sealed beams.  Is this too good to be true?

I couldn't find anywhere that mentioned the country of origin, but that is a fair price if higher end parts are used.  You can do the same thing for way less though...kind of just depends which route you are more comfortable with and with whom you feel you'd have the best follow up post sale should parts fail.  I have Hella lenses on the Duster and didn't pay much for them.  Similarly, they look to be using standard lenses, no special projectors etc.  Their stand alone bulbs are pretty pricey...without knowing more it is hard to advise.  With that said, I buy LEDs really cheap and have never had an issue.

I would pay attention to the bulb design and heat sink.  Like WR69 mentioned, there can be clearance issues (buckets and headlight doors likely). 

You could easily source the new lenses and some H4s...if they suffice just upgrade with relays.  If you still want more, swap in an LED.  The money you would save over some packaged kits would let you buy an awful lot of bulbs.

[lloyd3]

krops cars:  So....these are the lights you installed in your car?  Like some others here, this is something I've been considering for a very long time.  The perceived complications were always what kept me from doing it. Frankly...$200 for the ease of installation and the piece of mind is cheap IMHO.  I want to be sure that I don't need to worry about causing any problems in the rest of this what...51-year old wiring and charging system.  Another question...did you install both low and high beams?

If you read the above-mentioned Hagerty article, my old sealed beams are ~1700 Lumens, these are 4000 Lumens(!) and have a 30,000 hour run life.  Technology does indeed march on.

[c00nhunterjoe]

c00nhunterjoe:  where might I find such a relay harness?  I know just enough to be dangerous and I don't want to wreck my original lightswitch.

You will build it yourself. Buy the relays and connectors for the lights and make a harness. Not hard.  I bought my leds from amazon. 25 bucks each. Had to cut the stock buckets to get them to fit. 3 times as bright as stock style bulbs.

https://youtu.be/ZRKjt_Xj6w4
https://youtu.be/ggVCxK-xZTU

[b5blue]

Did you adjust the thumb wheel up and down a bunch to work the contacts? It helps the dash lights get brighter. Many do recall old school headlights dim as they age, a fresh set of low beam bulbs can really help. Checking/cleaning contacts/grounds helps. Tan Top is right our cars can suffer from low alternator output @ idle. (I installed a Denso kit from Mancini Racing.)   

[alfaitalia]

You can make the relay harness plug and play. Dont have the cut anything. Brighter lights are going to melt your factory harness. Pick your poison.

No need if you go LED of course....they will be pulling way LESS power than the factory tungsten bulbs even though they are far brighter.

[will]

T I'm running theshttps://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Headlight-Relay-Wire-Harness-H4-9003-Lamp-Bulb-Ceramic-Socket-Plugs-68-Charger/232455305061?epid=1641260516&hash=item361f6a7765:g:SCcAAOSw9mFWJXSce:

[GreenMachine]

c00nhunterjoe:  where might I find such a relay harness?  I know just enough to be dangerous and I don't want to wreck my original lightswitch.

This guys harness seems pretty good:

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/plug-and-play-headlight-relay-kits.166762/

[krops cars]

I put in both hi and low. The guy wanted me just to put in only the hi low bulb. I had to put in both. I know on a Charger you don't ever see them, but I know. I had to file a new locating hole in the high beam bucket. It was real simple. I used a small die grinder. Then on the plug in for the head light I took a wire cutter. There is a dimple on the plug. Sniped it off. That was it. If you ever want to back original no one would ever know. Like I said real simple. Nice glass bulbs with replaceable led bulbs. They draw reel low amps. I got them from Vintage carleds.com. The guy can tell you about the amps. Very helpful. He owns the company.

[lloyd3]

After a couple of days of digging and getting a minor in automotive lighting, here's where I'm at...I'm still not going to really drive my car much at night. My own abilities at night are probably not what they used to be, I'm still using factory drum brakes and... nighttime traffic can be very different than daytime traffic for a number of reasons (any you can probably guess most of them). I would, however, like to have the option to do so without being at a disadvantage because of inadequate lighting (certainly by modern standards). Clearly...halogen systems require much higher voltage and amperage than the systems being used in the 60s and 70s.  To venture there requires major modifications to the wiring and charging systems of these cars. Since I really don't want to change very much (or anything!) on my car, the halogens are out for me. The LED option is what I was hoping had been developed and....lo and behold, that does indeed seem to be the case. Vintage Car LEDs appears to have created a product with somebody like me in mind.  Haven't bought anything yet but I'm liking what I'm reading and hearing so-far.  The low-beams are a direct swap for the standard 5.75-inch sealed beams, the high-beams require a minor modification of the bucket to fit, but nothing that would affect re-using stock sealed-beams. There is, evidently, no need to alter the OEM wiring or charging systems to use their products (will work down to approximately 7 volts at the bucket).  I know of at least one car here that is running this system and he seems to have nothing but positive things to say about it.  This clearly isn't the cheap solution, you'd have something like $100/light to make the change from roughly 1700 Lumens per light to 4000 plus (the high-beams may be more). I'll likely go that route in the near future, certainly before next Spring gets here. Oops..I see krops cars has responded while I was writing this.  

[bakerhillpins]

You can make the relay harness plug and play. Dont have the cut anything. Brighter lights are going to melt your factory harness. Pick your poison.

No need if you go LED of course....they will be pulling way LESS power than the factory tungsten bulbs even though they are far brighter.

While many direct LED replacement options do indeed draw less power we must be careful about blanket statements. You MUST compare power consumption ratings for substituted components when making any electrical system change before you can effectively evaluate any required electrical/wiring modifications. Cooling is also a concern for these type of replacements as many LED components are not designed for operation in enclosed fixtures.

[73chgrSE]

Just bought a replacement low beam bulb yesterday.
Wagner. $13 for 1 bulb.

[Back N Black]

This is what I used for less than $100. They are much better than stock. Easy install.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3-4-Halogen-Semi-Sealed-Beam-Headlight-Conversion-Headlamp-60-55W-H4-Bulbs-/232524986465

[73chgrSE]

This is what I used for less than $100. They are much better than stock. Easy install.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3-4-Halogen-Semi-Sealed-Beam-Headlight-Conversion-Headlamp-60-55W-H4-Bulbs-/232524986465

Were they just plug in and go or did you change anything else?

[4cruzin]

c00nhunterjoe:  where might I find such a relay harness?  I know just enough to be dangerous and I don't want to wreck my original lightswitch.

This guys harness seems pretty good:
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/plug-and-play-headlight-relay-kits.166762/

This family is making the harnesses and have good reviews from many members on multiple forums.  I'm considering buyer a few upgrades myself as my lights dim a lot at night when I let off the gas . . .

[lloyd3]

Certainly a lot cheaper, that is until you fry something.

[krops cars]

bakerhillpins I believe cooling units for headlights are projector style.

[lloyd3]

OK, dash question.  Those little brown-plastic bulb sockets that turn into the circuit-board of the dash generally break after being disturbed for the 1st time in 50-years. The little legs that hold them in generally snap off. Are those available somewhere?

[lloyd3]

Answered my own question...

https://www.ebay.com/i/223479280017?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=223479280017&targetid=596465894788&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9028763&poi=&campaignid=6470719577&mkgroupid=81597521270&rlsatarget=pla-596465894788&abcId=1140476&merchantid=8440134&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_absBRD1ARIsAO4_D3t2kn6atV3IOXXA4A_MgGa3GOzMLou-bQZ2exVr1lKjsD1X36dbk2IaAjZiEALw_wcB

[krops cars]

Cool. Didn't know what you were talking about. I have needed them years ago. Had to go through junk yards. Not no more.

[Kern Dog]

That ebay listing does show 4 lenses but does NOT verbally state that 4 are included for the price. Is that a single unit price? I don't recall those ever being that cheap for 4 headlights.

[alfaitalia]

Clearly says "Set of 4" in the text near the bottom of the listing.

[Back N Black]

This is what I used for less than $100. They are much better than stock. Easy install.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3-4-Halogen-Semi-Sealed-Beam-Headlight-Conversion-Headlamp-60-55W-H4-Bulbs-/232524986465

Were they just plug in and go or did you change anything else?

Just plug and go.

[Kern Dog]

Clearly says "Set of 4" in the text near the bottom of the listing.

Well, yeah....IF you scroll down past all the other UNrelated bullshit. I thought it was just more ads for other stuff. Strange way to compose an ad.

[chapel40]

Leave your blinkers alone or you will have to modify them to blink

[myk]

Good luck with your modifications, but honestly I don't understand the need to install retina-melting lighting capacity into any car that's just driven on the street.  I've been driving my '69 with nothing more than a Painless re-wire, 130 amp 'alt and halogen sealed bulbs and I see just fine.  I absolutely HATE newer cars and their lighting systems designed to rival the brightest stars in the solar system.  It just isn't necessary IMO...

[BLK 68 R/T]

I'm contemplating these ones. I drive mine at night quite often so if they will light up deer or anything else I don't wanna hit, and do it 25 or 50 or 100 feet sooner, I'm all for it.

https://www.octanelighting.com/product/kit5-34-stock-h4-light-bulb-headlight-6k-6000k-whiteset-of-4-5-stock-h4-6000k-hid-2?gfid=p11714-c1892932

[Kern Dog]

Good luck with your modifications, but honestly I don't understand the need to install retina-melting lighting capacity into any car that's just driven on the street.  I've been driving my '69 with nothing more than a Painless re-wire, 130 amp 'alt and halogen sealed bulbs and I see just fine.  I absolutely HATE newer cars and their lighting systems designed to rival the brightest stars in the solar system.  It just isn't necessary IMO...

No offense Myk but if we are to drive these cars at night like we do our daily drivers, it really is a good idea to upgrade the lighting. Our 2015 Challenger R/T has HID headlights and they are fantastic without blinding oncoming motorists.  We upgrade to disc brakes and 3 point seat belts, good lighting is a good idea as well.
FABO and FBBO member "Crackedback" makes a plug and play harness  and people that have installed them report very impressive results even with the stock sealed beam lights. The Hella H4 55/60 are a nice upgrade  with the Crackedback kit.  No cutting and easily reversible.
As soon as I finish my A/C and interior wiring upgrades, the headlights are on the list of future changes.

[alfaitalia]

agreed....and by the way....there is only ONE star in the "Solar System"....our Sun!!

[Kern Dog]

??

Every star in the sky represents another "Sun"......Don't you guys over there remember that from Science class ? 

[alfaitalia]

None of which are in our Solar System though....apart from the Sun.

[Kern Dog]

None of which are in our Solar System though....apart from the Sun.

Ha...go back and reread....Myk wrote THE solar system, not OUR solar system. He could have been referring to any of them. 
It is a technicality but still.....  

[alfaitalia]

Hmmm......I think you new what he meant ....as there will usually only be one "Sun" in each of the other "planetary systems" anyway (rare binary suns excepted!). When he should have said Universe!! LOL.

[grizparker]

After a couple of days of digging and getting a minor in automotive lighting, here's where I'm at...I'm still not going to really drive my car much at night. My own abilities at night are probably not what they used to be, I'm still using factory drum brakes and... nighttime traffic can be very different than daytime traffic for a number of reasons (any you can probably guess most of them). I would, however, like to have the option to do so without being at a disadvantage because of inadequate lighting (certainly by modern standards). Clearly...halogen systems require much higher voltage and amperage than the systems being used in the 60s and 70s.  To venture there requires major modifications to the wiring and charging systems of these cars. Since I really don't want to change very much (or anything!) on my car, the halogens are out for me. The LED option is what I was hoping had been developed and....lo and behold, that does indeed seem to be the case. Vintage Car LEDs appears to have created a product with somebody like me in mind.  Haven't bought anything yet but I'm liking what I'm reading and hearing so-far.  The low-beams are a direct swap for the standard 5.75-inch sealed beams, the high-beams require a minor modification of the bucket to fit, but nothing that would affect re-using stock sealed-beams. There is, evidently, no need to alter the OEM wiring or charging systems to use their products (will work down to approximately 7 volts at the bucket).  I know of at least one car here that is running this system and he seems to have nothing but positive things to say about it.  This clearly isn't the cheap solution, you'd have something like $100/light to make the change from roughly 1700 Lumens per light to 4000 plus (the high-beams may be more). I'll likely go that route in the near future, certainly before next Spring gets here. Oops..I see krops cars has responded while I was writing this.  

.
I just ordered a set of the VCm3's which are lower profile to squeeze in there.  I'll try to remember to post again after I get them installed.

[darbgnik]

Only thing to remember when you start down the light upgrade path:

I haven't seen an example, at least in this thread, of a set of lights that are brighter, yet don't blind oncoming motorists for our cars.....

When you put a bright LED light in a housing designed for, or based on, a halogen or incandescent bulb you are going to blind oncoming motorists. No problem if your chances of driving at night are negligible at best, but for the few guys that drive them, it may be a concern.

Modern lights that use HID or LED bulbs from the factory are designed to have a visible and necessary cut off. Typically a shown as a straight line where the light does not shine higher than 2" below the headlight height at 25 feet. The better the line, and with it positioned properly, the less glare oncoming motorists see. Most modern versions accomplish this with projector housings as opposed to reflectors...


Everything in this thread looks like it would be blinding to others, just an FYI. If you don't care, you don't care.....

[b5blue]

Well put. I agree, soon someone will figure out a cost effective LED replacement bulb for us and they will clean up in the market.

[KurtfromLaQuinta]

Good luck with your modifications, but honestly I don't understand the need to install retina-melting lighting capacity into any car that's just driven on the street.  I've been driving my '69 with nothing more than a Painless re-wire, 130 amp 'alt and halogen sealed bulbs and I see just fine.  I absolutely HATE newer cars and their lighting systems designed to rival the brightest stars in the solar system.  It just isn't necessary IMO...

I'm kinda with you on this.
On my truck I've fooled with the headlights since I bought it 45+ years ago.
Here's an update of where they stand now...
https://ramchargercentral.com/mopar-trucks/my-'74-power-wagon-i-ordered-from-dodge-on-873/msg3478794/#msg3478794

Of course these a 7" round headlights. I need to look for an equivalent when I get my Daytona clone going because I'm really happy with this system. 

[darbgnik]

Well put. I agree, soon someone will figure out a cost effective LED replacement bulb for us and they will clean up in the market.

I would think so. In the meantime, these lights in the first link look promising, albeit pricier than the eBay options that aren't real projectors. Pricing could be kept down by buying the LED bulbs elsewhere and not selecting halos. Would have to try them to check the cut off though....

https://www.stang-aholics.com/i-27186947-69-classic-mustang-5-75-round-chrome-projector-headlight-kit.html?ref=category:1232994

These seem to be the best choice I've found, but the price is each, so at $800 for the set, they'd better be great!

https://www.raneystruckparts.com/5-75-premium-grade-led-projector-headlights/


That being said, I've paid more per light for both the 7" round LED Rigid/Truck-Lite 27270C headlights in my H1, and 7" round JW Speaker Model 8700 Evolution J2 Series headlights in her Jeep Wrangler. But those see more night and highway than the Charger ever will.....