Engine build - exhaust

[green69rt]

I'm not going to post anything on here till I actually order stuff so stand buy.

[BSB67]

Are you building this around HP exhaust or headers? I'm starting a build and would like to run HP exhaust and get 500 HP (550 tq) if possible.

What cubic inch and what budget?

500 cu in with a reasonable budget, easy.  445 cu in on a tight budget, not so easy.

[green69rt]

Are you building this around HP exhaust or headers? I'm starting a build and would like to run HP exhaust and get 500 HP (550 tq) if possible.

What cubic inch and what budget?

500 cu in with a reasonable budget, easy.  445 cu in on a tight budget, not so easy.

I'm approaching my requirements differently than Davidcam69.  I started out with some HP numbers, etc like a most people do.  After many conversations with CDR we are now going after performance requirements rather than outright HP numbers.  I'm going after a fun-to-drive, good running street car with plenty of HP.  Good vacuum to operate the headlight doors, runs on pump gas and I may be able to drive it to different altitudes without worrying about tuning changes.  So, why did you choose 500 HP/550 TQ?   

[cdr]

Are you building this around HP exhaust or headers? I'm starting a build and would like to run HP exhaust and get 500 HP (550 tq) if possible.

What cubic inch and what budget?

500 cu in with a reasonable budget, easy.  445 cu in on a tight budget, not so easy.

I'm approaching my requirements differently than Davidcam69.  I started out with some HP numbers, etc like a most people do.  After many conversations with CDR we are now going after performance requirements rather than outright HP numbers.  I'm going after a fun-to-drive, good running street car with plenty of HP.  Good vacuum to operate the headlight doors, runs on pump gas and I may be able to drive it to different altitudes without worrying about tuning changes.  So, why did you choose 500 HP/550 TQ?   

Altitude would still affect the tune, building this combination so Mitch can travel in the Charger & if he is out in the middle of nowhere & cant find 89, 93 octane fuel he will be able to run 87 octane in a pinch.

[Paul G]

I am eagerly watching this thread. I have A 440 to 505 engine build in progress. My build is going to be a little more aggressive. I'm shooting for mid 550 horsepower and over 600 torque, already have the short block done with the 440 source stroker kit installed, oiling system done, next thing is the cam and heads and valve train.. My build is using a hydraulic roller Cam and trick flow power port 240 heads. The problem I'm having is other things have soaked up my cash and the build has stalled. I think with what you guys are doing is more doable probably going to cost less. Keep it going.

[davidcam69]

Just lost my long post. I am not on a tight budget and I want to do it right. What I want is a torque monster that has Hp exhaust and stock air cleaner that fits under my stock hood. I think the 440 source heads are the only heads that would pull off the stock look. If I had to use something else, I would use header and not worry about stock look. Can't wait for your input Russ. I think you run what I would like. See if this will post.

[davidcam69]

Mitch I hope you don't mind us hijacking your thread. Perfect timing for me. I have two 440s and a 400 I stripped ready to take to Mid America Racing Engines here in Iowa. Haven't talked to them yet.

[green69rt]

Everyone is also interested in cost.  Here's what I am out so far:

Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.  Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.

Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax.  (Just saw on sale  )

440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.   $2571.16


Total to date $4431.58

[BSB67]

Just lost my long post. I am not on a tight budget and I want to do it right. What I want is a torque monster that has Hp exhaust and stock air cleaner that fits under my stock hood. I think the 440 source heads are the only heads that would pull off the stock look. If I had to use something else, I would use header and not worry about stock look. Can't wait for your input Russ. I think you run what I would like. See if this will post.

Probably shouldn't hijack the OP's thread.

[davidcam69]

Yeah, your right.

[green69rt]

Yeah, your right.

But you could post a link on this thread to your's.   So people can find it.

[BSB67]

Tmb84 has this thread going under Proven Engine Combinations that's pretty good and on point with these discussions.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,129707.0.html

[c00nhunterjoe]

The requirement of "enough vaccum to run the headlight doors" always makes me giggle. My .750 lift, 290 @ .050 runs the headlights without a canistor effortlessly.

[green69rt]

Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.  Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.

Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax.  (Just saw on sale  )
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.   $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.  232.56

Total to date $5189.14

[Challenger340]

Just lost my long post. I am not on a tight budget and I want to do it right. What I want is a torque monster that has Hp exhaust and stock air cleaner that fits under my stock hood. I think the 440 source heads are the only heads that would pull off the stock look. If I had to use something else, I would use header and not worry about stock look. Can't wait for your input Russ. I think you run what I would like. See if this will post.

The "stock" appearance was a big factor to our using the Stealth Heads for the "lowly 440" series of engine builds here:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html

Through Lots of R & D and Dyno time over the years......
we've now upgraded the Cam and Head/V-Seats package used in those Engine builds, to substantially overcome the HP Exhaust Manifold and factory N96 Air Cleaner restrictions.

Last .030" over 440(Non-Stroker) still topped 515hp with 545 FT/Lbs through it's installed Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner and HP Exhaust Manifolds, which we're proud of that as you may guess ?
All done on a SuperFlow SF902 Engine Dyno... so real Flywheel numbers.
 

[green69rt]

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.  Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.

Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax.  (Just saw on sale  )
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.   $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.  232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.  217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping   259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.    795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.  386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly)  15.13

Total as of 11/19 $6863.15

[green69rt]

Latest update.

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.  Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.

Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax.  (Just saw on sale  )
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.   $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.  232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.  217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping   259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.    795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.  386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax                                    $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax.                                $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax                                     $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax                                      $359.59
Valve covers w/tax                                                   $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping                                    $1138.60  
MSD dist and coil w/tax                                             $512.41
                   


Total as of 11/19 $9555.90

[Challenger340]

Latest update.

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.  Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.

Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax.  (Just saw on sale  )
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.   $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.  232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.  217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping   259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.    795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.  386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax                                    $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax.                                $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax                                     $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax                                      $359.59
Valve covers w/tax                                                   $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping                                    $1138.60  
MSD dist and coil w/tax                                             $512.41
                   


Total as of 11/19 $9555.90

This is extremely helpful for others.... THANKS for keeping us informed !

[green69rt]

Latest update.

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.  Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.

Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax.  (Just saw on sale  )
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.   $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.  232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.  217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping   259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.    795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.  386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax                                    $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax.                                $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax                                     $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax                                      $359.59
Valve covers w/tax                                                   $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping                                    $1138.60  
MSD dist and coil w/tax                                             $512.41
                   


Total as of 11/19 $9555.90

This is extremely helpful for others.... THANKS for keeping us informed !

Not a problem and glad to share.

[green69rt]

update  12/22/2019

400 Block.  Bare and hot tanked.  Bored 0.030.  $900 plus $150 for shipping from Ohio to Houston.
Machine shop was going to charge me $200 for the disassemble, $200 to hot tank and $225 to bore/hone.  Now only about $100 for a hone out to 0.035, so about $375 plus shipping for the block.

Edlebrook E-street heads $1335.42 with tax.  (Just saw on sale  )
440 source stroker kit, added their head bolts, shipping and tax.   $2571.16
440 source windage tray, 6 qt. oil pan, gasket, plug, bolts, pickup, shipping.  232.56
Melling HV oil pump, gaskets/O-ring, bolt kit, Adj press reg, Inter shaft, bushing, slinger.  217.60
3 bolt timing chain set, bolt kit, aluminum chain cover, cover bolt kit.  Shipping   259.36
Summit Racing - Pro Magnum rocker set, carter mechanical fuel pump, tax.    795.62
Water pump housing, nipple set, pump, valve cover gaskets, water pump pulley, bolts, front end gasket set, shipping.  386.30
Motor mounts (O Reilly) w/tax                                    $15.13
Balancer and cam button w/tax.                                $218.86
XE 274 cam and lifters w/tax                                     $281.86
Performer RPM intake w/tax                                      $359.59
Valve covers w/tax                                                   $181.43
TTI 1 7/8 Headers, shipping                                    $1138.60  
MSD dist and coil w/tax                                             $512.41
Solid Flex plate, bolt kit, billit timing pointer (bling), shipping $131.07                  


Total as of $9686.97

Some remaining items
Carb, starter, alt, Radiator and fan

[green69rt]

Did the firefighter engine mount mod.  Pretty easy.  Hardest part was finding the bolts.

[b5blue]

 

[firefighter3931]

Did the firefighter engine mount mod.  Pretty easy.  Hardest part was finding the bolts.

Nice work....those will be bomb proof ! 

What size stroker are you building ? What is the compression ratio ?

The XE274 may be a bit small on a 500ci build. I helped with a similar build years ago and specced a bigger cam (custom grind) for Mike's build and it was all done at 5000 rpm.

Here's a good read on that build with dyno numbers ;

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html



Ron

[green69rt]

Did the firefighter engine mount mod.  Pretty easy.  Hardest part was finding the bolts.

Nice work....those will be bomb proof !  

What size stroker are you building ? What is the compression ratio ?

The XE274 may be a bit small on a 500ci build. I helped with a similar build years ago and specced a bigger cam (custom grind) for Mike's build and it was all done at 5000 rpm.

Here's a good read on that build with dyno numbers ;

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html



Ron

Forgot to put the CI spec in.  470 CI.  Probably around 9.6 - 9.7 CR  I expect the engine will top out in the 5000-5200 range.

[firefighter3931]

Did the firefighter engine mount mod.  Pretty easy.  Hardest part was finding the bolts.

Nice work....those will be bomb proof !  

What size stroker are you building ? What is the compression ratio ?

The XE274 may be a bit small on a 500ci build. I helped with a similar build years ago and specced a bigger cam (custom grind) for Mike's build and it was all done at 5000 rpm.

Here's a good read on that build with dyno numbers ;

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.0.html



Ron

Forgot to put the CI spec in.  470 CI.  Probably around 9.6 - 9.7 CR  I expect the engine will top out in the 5000-5200 range.

The XE274 will work fine in a mild 470 and the peak power will be where you thing it'll be (5k-5.2K) 

I'd expect it to make in the neighbourhood of 1hp/cubic inch and be very pleasant to drive.   



Ron