Buddy purchases a 69 Charger "restored" for 50k, did he get ripped off?

[mrlegoman]

Young kid who finished serving his 4 as a Airborne Marine made the snap decision to take all his cash he had earned and "invest" in a classic car. He bought a 69 with a 440 swap (and General Lee paint scheme) from a dealer for 50k. He said he did his research and claims it was a good deal. (Which I'm betting 90% of that research came from the dealer)

He signed back up as a contractor and headed back over to the middle east. Left me in charge of the car to try to sell it. I'm getting offers in the 20k range.  Went ahead and had it appraised by AAG and they came back at 18-24k value.

Car's body work looks ok. Interior is just ok. I call it a 20ft car (looks perfect as long as your 20ft away).
No paperwork.
Missing VIN tags in the front. Dealer claimed they fell off during repaint.
440 has aftermarker eddlebroke carb on it. Aftermarket radiator too. Entire engine painted orange too, which I thought it was suppose to be blue.

And on top all that, the 440 has no power. I mean it's like it's missing 4 cylinders. No pickup at all. I've tried contacting the dealer to find out what makes the car special. They will only email me to say to call them. When I call them the connection is so bad I cannot understand a word their saying. So I'm going down the path that kid was scammed.

My last mopar was a 72 Demon, so I'm not familiar with the Chargers. Is there something I (and AAG) could be missing that makes this car special enough to be worth 50k?

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPl0kTv6Q4rDwlp8r5rff-q-Ed-zBq2FNb9Xd8Ll_VjSNt01FSh32PTvh9AoBhh7g/photo/AF1QipMCaF7AhslbyBnpOeWHAErcZMrUPpoMv28SV9FH?key=a1JRTWV0UkNsLTB3ZzFhWHBjNnhYemZ2RGQyWFJ3

All the photo's:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iEWPz9iMkKxtkhGZA

[DAY CLONA]

He got hosed, was the seller HLPAG Auto Sales aka True Muscle car Auto Sales?

[70 sublime]

or True Muscle car ?

[bigdsul]

50k? From a dealer? Hosed? Yeah I'd most definitely say so. Does he have an idea what lays underneath the paint job?

[Mytur Binsdirti]

50k? From a dealer? Hosed? Yeah I'd most definitely say so.

[70 sublime]

Any pictures of the frame under the car ?

[CDN72SE]

Definitely not worth what he paid, very unfortunate and air quotes restored is correct.

[chargervert]

It looks like one of Han's specials,aka True Muscle Cars,I think he is getting better at sculpting Chargers from a Bondo can these days! I hear it gets easier after the first hundred or so that he did!

[mrlegoman]

or True Muscle car ?

I didn't want to say because I'm still trying to contact them for paperwork and an explanation for pricing. But the fact you mention them off the bat gives me a sinking feeling in my stomach.

[mrlegoman]

Any pictures of the frame under the car ?

Not yet. Need to get it up on a lift, possibly tomorrow.

[70 sublime]

Better not stand too close when you take pictures of the bottom side 

[70 sublime]

Fancy web site

http://www.truemusclecars.com/

[BrianShaughnessy]

It's a non RT 383 car.   XP29H.    I would not think it's worth that kinda $ with the 'resto' in that condition.   Looks kinda halfazz.

Looks like your friend paid high retail for it.    Sorry.

[timmycharger]

"He signed back up as a contractor and headed back over to the middle east. Left me in charge of the car to try to sell it. I'm getting offers in the 20k range.  Went ahead and had it appraised by AAG and they came back at 10-24k value"


Not worth 50K in my opinion but also don't think its worth 10K either, I say closer to the 24 number, maybe more.

[RallyeMike]

If they think its so great maybe you could convince them to buy it back for $40k? Better than a $30k loss  :shrugs:

Sorry to see this.

[ACUDANUT]

If they think its so great maybe you could convince them to buy it back for $40k? Better than a $30k loss  :shrugs:

Sorry to see this.

Good idea. They still make money and could make more.  
The underside is the real issue, and of course the amount of Bondo used.  Most 440's can be rebuilt under 5K.  
I have seen Junk, Rusted, beat to death Chargers that don't run sell for 20K. So I don't think he won't get raped too bad.
You can tell it was once a green interior. Poor dye and attention to detail.
A lot of members here won't sell there car for under 50K. 

[mrlegoman]

Not worth 50K in my opinion but also don't think its worth 10K either, I say closer to the 24 number, maybe more.

My mistype. That should be 18-24

[bigdsul]

Fancy web site

http://www.truemusclecars.com/

There it is lmao! HPLAG, classiccars, truemusclecars, etc. Man they always seem to stay ahead of the buyers

[bigdsul]

It's a non RT 383 car.   XP29H.    I would not think it's worth that kinda $ with the 'resto' in that condition.   Looks kinda halfazz.

Looks like your friend paid high retail for it.    Sorry.

It is half assed. Once you realize that the pics are from a cellphone and only a few pictures of the car all outside shots from a couple feet away or more and it shows what the seller was trying to hide.

[JB400]

Fancy web site

http://www.truemusclecars.com/

All those poor cars held for ransom

[ACUDANUT]

 A 77 W200 pick up for 19K. lol
I had one identical and could only get 2K

[Kern Dog]

A black engine bay in a car that has been color changed always looks like a CHEAP "restoration" job. If they didn't have the skills or inclination to pull the engine to do it right, I start to suspect everything else.
The body actually looks nice to me. The interior looks okay for a cruiser/driver, not something that has a $50,000 price on it!

[Mike DC]

A black engine bay is totally correct on a General Lee, though.  They always showed it black (or at least dark) on TV.  In the storyline the car started out black before the Duke boys rebuilt it. 

Hans Ludke's black engine bay?  I'm sure he just did it to hide hackwork. 

[Kern Dog]

Partly correct...
I recall seeing shows with a variety of underhood colors, different air cleaners, etc.

[JB400]

Without seeing it in person, I say it's worth half of what he paid.  Several details missing, or need to be done to make it nicer.

[ACUDANUT]

A black engine bay is totally correct on a General Lee, though.  They always showed it black (or at least dark) on TV.  In the storyline the car started out black before the Duke boys rebuilt it.  

Hans Ludke's black engine bay?  I'm sure he just did it to hide hackwork.  

General Lee's had tan interiors also.
I can't stress this enough :
They still would make money and could make more buying it back..  2thumbs..
But we would be back again most likely with another buyer/victim.
The Charger looks decent, but the dealer in question raises red flags and sell a lot of crap. They are in for the money, and money alone.
The underside is the real issue, and of course the amount of Bondo used.  Most 440's can be rebuilt under 5K.  
I have seen Junk, Rusted, beat to death Chargers that don't run sell for 20K. So I don't think he won't get raped too bad.
You can tell it was once a green interior. Poor dye and attention to detail. They didn't even dye the seatbelts.
A lot of members here won't sell there car for under 50K

[Kern Dog]

"They are only in it for the money"
Well, of COURSE they are. Businesses that are NOT trying to make a profit end up being closed.
I am not defending these guys but to use the argument that they are only in it for the money is as accurate as saying that he only breathes to stay alive or He only waters the grass to make it green.

These classic car "dealerships" are just salesmen that cater to a specific market. 150 years ago the same guys sold Snake oil and linaments in a horse drawn cart going from town to town. Today they sell what many people seem to want: A shiny "restored" car that reminds us guys of the good old days. They almost always fall short of a proper restoration in terms of being OEM correct. I'd guess that the majority of their market is men with limited skills and limited knowledge of what is correct. They are in business to make money. Again, I am not defending shoddy workmanship or business practices, I just see them doing what many businesses do: Invest the bare minimum of work to garner the maximum of profit from it.

[Mytur Binsdirti]

[JR]

Normally I try and find the bright side in these things, but yeah, that's a 20-25k car tops.

I suppose the bright side is he didn't do the normal military/contractor thing of going to buy a 2019 Charger at 24% interest for 72 months.

[Mike DC]

I suppose the bright side is he didn't do the normal military/contractor thing of going to buy a 2019 Charger at 24% interest for 72 months.
Posted on: Today at 01:45:00 PM Posted by: Mytur Binsdirti

LOL

I just got curious and did some quick rough math on that.  A $36,000 Charger RT.  Assuming a $5000 down payment and 24% interest for 72 months.  

The interest alone added up to almost $28k.  Plus the car's lost value after 6 years.  

[NHCharger]

I would run a magnet over the exterior to see how deep the filler is.
Yeah, he got boned.
The homemade lower door panels made me cringe.

[Mike DC]

This ripoff was particularly bad because it's a combination job.  For what it's worth I'm sorry, man. 


There is the baseline price increase that happens at any classic car dealership.  (You pay thousands extra for the convenience.  No dealing with a bunch of individual buyers spread out all over the country, you know the car's paperwork is legal, etc.) 

Then there was the real screwing on top of that because it was Hans's dealership.  The guy is notoriously crooked.  It's amazing that some pissed-off customer hasn't bashed his head in with a baseball bat by now.  It's amazing that it didn't happen many years ago. 

[ACUDANUT]

Mr.legoman. I know your new here, so check this section out.  " Delusional Charger sellers  ".
Here is one for $227,000.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Dodge-Charger-R-T/163775266195?hash=item2621c43d93:g:SPsAAOSwAS5dKpHT
Best of luck.

[Challenger340]

Yeah, imo same as everyone else I think your buddy got hosed, or let's just say "could have done better" for the price ?

But where I differ as to why he got hosed ? is that I believe it's his own fault for NOT doing his due diligence adequately.

HPLAG, classic car dork,  or true muscle cars or whatever that guy is called this week, they have been around for a very long time and are obviously filling a niche within the market for what is IMO, crap vehicles at inflated prices, but the point being there doesn't seem to be a shortage of "less than savvy" Buyers.... so on it continues.

BTW, try and get $20-25K for the General Lee.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Sorry for your friends loss on this one.  Thank him for his service though!

[Ghoste]

What he just said.

[comet_666]

 
$15k
without seeing it in person and you also said it runs like crap too.

[AKcharger]

HLPAG...my gosh we wrote books about that place here.
Id say car is a $25-28 ish car

[Ghoste]

25k ould make it one of Hans best.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Why did he buy a car from a dealer to try and flip it for profit? 

[Troy]

It really saddens me every time I see one of these threads. If you Google their website name, the first page has links to threads about them here. It's pretty easy to find stories about them ripping people off (and have been since before this site was even created in 2005). They not only prey on people who dream of owning a classic Charger but, in addition, the dream of owning a General Lee. Fans are more apt to overlook obvious flaws - either because they are wishing too hard or because they just aren't car people.

That last part is really what I wanted to focus on. Yes, a person can do lots of research and see outrageous prices for these cars. Then they read about how impossibly hard it is to find one in good condition - and how much harder it is to restore one correctly from a rusted out project. In the end, it makes perfect sense to pony up the cash and buy one "done". And that, unfortunately, is what Hans uses to manipulate so many people.

The thing about value is that there are so many details and nuances that affect it that casual or uninformed people will miss. For example, my parents think a "good" paint job is like what you'd see on a new car. Therefore, anything that's all one color and doesn't have obvious large dents or peeling meets their standards. On the opposite end, people who really study these cars (especially General Lees) will nit pick the shade of black used in various places and the proper application of overspray. And, honestly, cell phone pictures (and cell phone pics mangled by Facebook's upload) can easily make the differences between $20k and $50k seem negligible. People who have never had to build one of these cars may not appreciate just how expensive certain parts are (grill plastic, tail light assemblies, wiring harnesses, and so on). For every piece of pitted chrome, worn fabric, checked paint, and dry rotted rubber the cost to repair snowballs. Then there's the sellers who bank on the buyer not understanding originality (option codes, engine availability, identification, etc.) and price a car "as if" it were an original example. A lot of buyers, unfortunately, get their idea of "value" from watching Mecum and Barrett Jackson where pristine examples with a mountain of paperwork are featured - but not seen alongside Billy Bob's backyard restoration of a base model car with a motor home big block and 23-spline 4-speed swap.

I hate to tell you to dig deep into that car to figure out all the flaws. You may find out it's completely wasted - and probably unsafe to even drive. Everything you uncover you'll want to tell prospective buyers. Almost better to be ignorant of the facts and pray it's not as bad as it could be.

Troy

[myk]

Eh, same thing happened to me when I bought mine and anyone else who doesn't do the research and homework before they pull the trigger.  However, back in '94 I didn't have the internet, only word of mouth, and people were only in to Chevy's, Fords or Honda Civics with fart can mufflers on them.  Today?  There's no excuse.  There's a bevy of information out there and it is very easy to make an informed decision.  If I only knew then what I know now......Anyway, that car looks like mine and I would never think to ask more than $25K for it...

[AKcharger]

I can't believe that guy isn't in jail or dead after cheating the wrong person. I recall some of the heart wrenching stories, worst was the wife whose husband always wanted a Charger and she bought one from HLPAG as a gift. After being assured it was a perfect car a few days later a transport drops off a rusted pile of crap in front of their house.

I mean, there Hell, then there's the level of Hell Hitler lives....Hans deserves to be 17 levels lower!!!

[ACUDANUT]

Why did he buy a car from a dealer to try and flip it for profit? 

If you read the post, that is not the case.

[Ghoste]

Troy, did you not egage in a great battle of words with old Hans many years ago?

[AKcharger]

Troy, did you not egage in a great battle of words with old Hans many years ago?

If so please repost...HLPAG bashing threads is what made DC.com great!