Small block too small for big cars?

[73chgrSE]

I wouldn't mind something like this. Price is too high though.

$8,298.00

408 magnum

465 horsepower / 535 ft-lbs of torque.

[timmycharger]

You need torque to move big heavy cars. Not bad numbers for a small block but In my opinion a big block would make that torque easily. 


I like that engine for an A body but I'm sure the engine "experts" on this page will tear it to shreds and tell you it's garbage and you can't build anything for less than 15K...

[73chgrSE]

Agreed but those tq numbers are double what a stock 400 has, probably even at the lower rpms. I would like to build a 451 with a different 400 block but at the end of the day the price may be close to that crate motor.

[krops cars]

Is a Charger considered a big car? I would say like New Yorker and such would be a big car.

[73chgrSE]

I would say so.  4000lb+ and 17ft long. My house was built in '84 only 11 years after the car was made and already they were making garages too small for them in this neighborhood.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Never been a fan of crate motors. Nothing wrong with a stroker small block. Stroke is what makes the torque, not whether its a big block or small block.

[Mike DC]

      
A small-block isn't too small after you take a stroker crank and make a big-block out of it.

Aside from that, a small-block is a big-block that has to rev higher to fill the cylinder heads.  




From what I've seen, crate motors are only a good bargain while the motor is in production at the OEM.  The cost savings comes from the fact that they can start with a mass-produced short/long block.  

Once the crate builders are doing everything with used blocks, you might as well just pay a good local shop to build you something.  The crate builder might give you a lower price than the local guy but the difference is reduced quality.  

[73chgrSE]

     
 

Once the crate builders are doing everything with used blocks, you might as well just pay a good local shop to build you something.  The crate builder might give you a lower price than the local guy but the difference is reduced quality.  

Thanks. Good advice.

[b5blue]

The small block could use the newer automatics that are not bolt on for B/RB's.   

[c00nhunterjoe]

The small block could use the newer automatics that are not bolt on for B/RB's.   

Bolt on is deceiving. The new automatics require a sawzall to fit.

[Kern Dog]

Well, to fit the CAR, sure but they fit the engine block just fine. That is a major obstacle for some.
I had a bad ass 46 RE that I could have used in my '70 but I didn't feel right about hacking off the bellhousing and installing another, then the hassles of finding someone that would make a harness to run the OD and TC lockup. The 518 series is new enough to have overdrive but old enough that it doesn't have as great of a support system as the 545 and NAG transmissions do. The aftermarket tuners and support for the newest stuff is far greater. I heard that someone recently cracked to codes and built a controller for the ZF 8 speed. Hell yeah....That trans allows a 3.23 axle ratio and it rarely feels like it is in a wrong gear. Our 2015 Challenger R/T is the base 5.7 and A8 trans. I consider it a modern version of a '70 Challenger R/T with a 383 and a 727. The '15 is a heavy car but it accelerates great at just about any speed. The close ratio of the 8 gears makes it so the engine stays in a sweet spot while you go faster and faster.
It is HUGE though. I was surprised to learn that even with the massive size, it only weighs 200 lbs. I expected it to be more.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Well, to fit the CAR, sure but they fit the engine block just fine. That is a major obstacle for some.
I had a bad ass 46 RE that I could have used in my '70 but I didn't feel right about hacking off the bellhousing and installing another, then the hassles of finding someone that would make a harness to run the OD and TC lockup. The 518 series is new enough to have overdrive but old enough that it doesn't have as great of a support system as the 545 and NAG transmissions do. The aftermarket tuners and support for the newest stuff is far greater. I heard that someone recently cracked to codes and built a controller for the ZF 8 speed. Hell yeah....That trans allows a 3.23 axle ratio and it rarely feels like it is in a wrong gear. Our 2015 Challenger R/T is the base 5.7 and A8 trans. I consider it a modern version of a '70 Challenger R/T with a 383 and a 727. The '15 is a heavy car but it accelerates great at just about any speed. The close ratio of the 8 gears makes it so the engine stays in a sweet spot while you go faster and faster.
It is HUGE though. I was surprised to learn that even with the massive size, it only weighs 200 lbs. I expected it to be more.

Imagine how ignorant the a8 launch would be with a set of 4.56s....

[Kern Dog]

The 4.71 1st gear is a killer!

[c00nhunterjoe]

The 4.71 1st gear is a killer!

4.71 1st with a 4.56 rear....

[Kern Dog]

Yeah, I got that.
The Wife's car has a 3.06 axle ratio and it still launches pretty nice for a 4200 lb car. I can only imagine what a car would do with more power, less weight and more axle gear!

[Troy]

That Magnum motor in stock form powered 3/4 ton trucks with a large towing capacity. It will move a Charger just fine. Stroked it's likely putting out more torque than most standard big blocks. All modern Hemis are essentially the same size (dimensions) and both will bolt to the factory transmissions from the muscle era. You can build a 408 Magnum for a lot less than that too. For that price I'd opt for a modern Hemi.

Troy

[c00nhunterjoe]

That Magnum motor in stock form powered 3/4 ton trucks with a large towing capacity. It will move a Charger just fine. Stroked it's likely putting out more torque than most standard big blocks. All modern Hemis are essentially the same size (dimensions) and both will bolt to the factory transmissions from the muscle era. You can build a 408 Magnum for a lot less than that too. For that price I'd opt for a modern Hemi.

Troy

I do like the modern hemis, at least the pre mds versions. They are EXTREMELY detuned in stock form. Just a programmer, gutted cats and tire will get a 5.7 in a 4500 lb car into the 12s on 2.82 gears. Got the time slips to back it up from my 07. The 07s were rated at 345 horse. So do the math... lol. The 6.1s were 425 and you can build alot for them.