Buy a Charger via gps-autos.com / escrow=> is it safe?

[TobiasM]

Hello there!

As some of you might already know, I am in search of a lovely 1968-1970 Dodge Charger. I am located in Germany and would like to import such a car from the US to Germany for my private use.

I have now been offered a 69 Charger R/T, VIN XS29L9B271932. The seller is located in TN and wants to sell this car via "gps-autos.com". The car was inspected by "gps" and the seller gave me the transaction-#, so I could take an online- look at the Vehicle Inspection Report of his car. The car got very good critics.

Before he gave me the transaction-# m.a. I asked the seller for a pic of the fendertag and a pic/copy of his owner`s-title.

Here is a quote of his e-mail-answer I recieved:
"The pics of the tagfender I can not take them as the car is in the care  of a transporter already. also the copy of the title will be sent to you only after you take a look at the car and conditions on the transport company website and take a partial  decision. please understand that for security reasons I can not do what you have asked. but if you are a serious buyer, then we can make it work."

I hope he is a serious seller and himself is just as afraid of me beeing not a serious foreign buyer as I am afraid that he is an unfair seller or his car-ad is faked.

What do you think?!?  Will I bust my money if I accept in purchasing this car via gps-auto.com ...is it a trap? I read the gps-auto-homepage and they offer an escrow-service...does this work good? To me the things written on the gps-a-homepage sound logically and making sense...from general point of view, it could work.

Thanks for your advice and support in bringing such a masterpiece of car-building to Germany!!!

Best regards,
Tobias

[TobiasM]

Here is a picture of this car. Maybe some of you know it and tell me, if there`s something wrong with it or the seller!

Thx again!

Tobias

[Blown70]

well  charger4404spd his from tenesee and has a charger.... My old one ...... He has done much to her .....ohhh anyway. 

There are members here I am sure if it is close would personally inspect it for you.  Just make sure they do not try to buy it out from you.


Tom

[TobiasM]

well  charger4404spd his from tenesee and has a charger.... My old one ...... He has done much to her .....ohhh anyway. 

Tom

Hello Tom, thanks for your contribution!

If I got you right, you don`t know "my" Charger personally but gave me the hind, that charger4404spd might be near to the location of "my" charger? Ok, that sounds good.

@charger4404spd: hello, where are you exactly located? THX!

@buy-outs: no,no,no ;-) I am a honest, hard-working man, don`t make my dreams NOT come true *praying*

[Blown70]

well  charger4404spd his from tenesee and has a charger.... My old one ...... He has done much to her .....ohhh anyway. 

Tom

If I got you right, you don`t know "my" Charger personally but gave me the hind, that charger4404spd might be near to the location of "my" charger? Ok, that sounds good.

That would be correct.  I know there are a few other members from Ten.  I just do not know them.

Tom

[PocketThunder]

That looks like a $30,000 car to me.  I'd spend the money to fly over here and make the transaction in person.  Or contact charger4404spd first at least and see if he can verify it exists..

[limey]

That is one sharp motor Tobias....its not going to come cheap, so I would be wary. Are there no importers in Germany who you can go and talk to, build up some trust and let them handle the negotiations.Money handling etc. Even if you were to use a firm in the UK, such as....

http://www.musclecarimports.co.uk/

then they could act as your agents, you could then make the shorter hop across the channel and then drive her home. You see if someone else can send their own independent assessor/buyer to see the car, and then manage the financial transactions/shipping then it may give you come back if things go wrong....this is what it seems your gps autos.com is doing.....BUT if it is an e-business, then there is no face, no name, no responsibility.

Muscle Car Imports UK is run jointly by a chap called Tony Oksien. He is a hugely respected member of the Mopar community over here, and contributes to magazines, runs clubs, studies the cars and their provenance.  A call to him might give you some help/advice...or maybe he could handle this thing for you. He has not personally imported anything for me, but I'm sure other UK guys will vouch for his reputation, and England isn't too far away.....
Good Luck Mate,
Limey

[Charger74]

Tobias,

I would definetely follow everyones advise here.   While that is a sweet looking car I have seen a few ads like this where the response you got is a very common thing and usually turns out to be a scam.   I would not send one penny until someone from this site or someone trusted has personally seen the car.    Sorry but with the response he gave you it really sounds like a scam.  I hope it isn't but be very careful.

[mikepmcs]

Tobias
i know the car as i have seen it close up and heard it run(and it sounds awesome), i have not seen the ad the owner is posting but I know him.
you see my picture up on the left does that carport look familiar, that's because that was my car in his driveway before i went to tennessee to get it.
when i went there he showed us around and took us up to see the r/t and a couple other gems in his garage.  he is a very honest man in my opinion.  he saves chargers, mostly 69's but he did not save this one cause it didn't need it as far as i can remember anyways.
i really liked that r/t triple black and she will roll!
i don't know anything about the escrow service you are asking about but i know he has shipped overseas to italy at least twice.  one guy even flew his buddies with him from italy to visit him at his shop, i think that is how he sold the second one.

one last question, do you know the owners name or have an email address.  tell me what they are and i will confirm that that is the same guy.
oh yeah i can mediate with him and let him know that you are an honest buyer, believe me i'm sure he is just as scared as you are about a transaction.
He's very honest and the car will be what he says it is so ask him plenty of questions.

v/r
Mike

[limey]

Phew!
Well theres tick number one...now you have to sort out the nuts and bolts of the deal, But a character reference from Mike goes a long way...
Limey

[Blown70]

Good news.... GREAT NEWS....

[mikepmcs]

i emailed the seller and told him all about what's going on.  i then PM'd tobias and asked him to wait til i got back with him because i wanna make sure some scam artist is not using the seller's ad from a previous sale or you know what i'm talking about...
i'll get a reply from him tonight i hope or tomorrow for sure, if not i will call him.
so everyone just stand by for now please.
v/r
Mike

I love this stuff

[mikepmcs]

UPDATE


Just got in touch with the owner of that car and that was his car.  i won't post his reply but the car has been sold to a gentleman in california and gone for a while.

Sorry tobias keep looking you'll find one.

but i'm still looking to find out more about this escrow service from the previous owner.
stand by for more

[Blown70]

WOW, so it was a scam?  That pisses me off.....

[mikepmcs]

YEAH AND THE GUY I'M TALKING ABOUT DOES NOT USE AN ESCROW SERVICE HE DEALS WITH SHIPPING DIRECTLY.
HERE IS THE EMAIL I JUST RECEIVED FROM Danny Johnson, from Fayetteville, Tennessee.

also mike,I have a 69 charger r/t se that I made a general lee out of that will be ready in 2 weeks that is a # matching engine car,,,also I have another 69 charger r/t se that is in the works,a 68 charger r/t that will be in a few months,so send your friend to me and I will give him a good honest deal,I don't deal through a escrow service,I deal direct as you know with who is buying the car,and try to give them a good buy for there money,,please have your friend contact me and I will build him a charger to fit his needs or he can buy one that I have ready....I also have a 69 charger that is a 360-automatic on the floor with black interior and will be a general lee that will be done by the end of the month,I could do him a black car out of it if he wants....... I had been worried about someone trying to scam people off my pictures and details-there are crooks all over the place...I believe the title would have showed up void in the background if you make a copy of them-...AS A MATTER OF FACT IF YOU HAVE ANYONE WANTING A CHARGER,,, I CAN BUILD TO SUIT THERE NEEDS,THANKS DANNY

There you go in real time communication within the last 30 minutes.

All i will say and Danny if you see this don't take it the wrong way, is Danny will tell you is a hobbyist and not a professional, he does not use a paint booth he sprays in his shop.  So the paint and body work will not be perfect.  If you are looking for a perfectly restored charger you might end up disappointed.  I was not, i'm very happy that i got my 69 and although not perfect i'm pleased with everything, i'm having a good time relearning systems and fixing all the little stuff.   if anyone wants pics of my charger so you can get an idea of what you're getting pm or email me and i'll take some this weekend. My interior is awesome and the car is matching numbers with a build sheet.

v/r
Mike

[mikepmcs]

ONE LAST EMAIL FROM DANNY AND I'LL LET IT REST, JUST GOT THIS FROM MR JOHNSON

MIKE,THIS IS A CROOK TRYING TO STEAL MONEY,THAT WAS THE CHARGER  SOLD TO A MAN IN CALIFORNIA....I HAD EVEN WENT AND REGISTERED IT TO GET A NEW TITLE FOR THE CAR AFTER THE MAN DIDN'T REPLY AND HIS E-MAIL ADDRESS WAS SUDDENLY NO GOOD,THE FAX NUMBER SEEMED TO BE IN OREGON THAT I FAXED TO....TELL YOUR FRIEND NOT TO TRUST HIM-HE IS SCAMING....DANNY

so everyone stay away from GPS-AUTOS.COM/ ESCROW

this needs to be posted all over the site for our friends out of country.

v/r
Mike

[Silver R/T]

theres no reason guy shouldnt be able to post a pic of fender tag. would take him a few minutes. If he is serious about selling it he can send you a picture of any car section you request

[Recharger]

theres no reason guy shouldnt be able to post a pic of fender tag. would take him a few minutes. If he is serious about selling it he can send you a picture of any car section you request

Did you even bother to read the thread??

[nh_mopar_fan]

The point is that if the guy comes up with an excuse on why he can't give you a pic of the tag, he's lying.

I'm no genius and I had this thing pegged as a scam from the first response. How many members do we have on here? How many people have bought and sold cars long distance? Has anyone ever used escrow? I'm guessing it's a rare occurence.

When they say escrow, it's a scam.

Effing lowlife. These dicks deserve a beating.

[mikepmcs]

I feel ya dawg!

I'm actually gonna try to catch this guy tomorrow but i'll need the site that tobias found(kinda if we can keep the scammer on the hook long enough kind of thing)  and the ad and stuff and i'll use Dannys email threads he sent me today with him talking to the original scammer.  might contact the FBI if I can get enough info.  I'm really disappointed sometimes at this kind of stuff.  You think if they are that smart they could use it for good vice deception and illegal stuff.  Baffles me!

[BigBlockSam]

I'm no genius and I had this thing pegged as a scam from the first response   

   

[TobiasM]

Hello Gentlemen!

Overwealimng resyponse, thanks a lot. But I am in a hurry now, so I don`t have the time to go trough all your posts / PM`s - terribly sorry! Will have the chance/time on monday.

THANKSTHANKSTHANKSTHANKS!

Tobias

[bull]

That looks like a $30,000 car to me.  I'd spend the money to fly over here and make the transaction in person.  Or contact charger4404spd first at least and see if he can verify it exists..

$30k?? Of course I don't know the car and we're only looking at pictures but if the rest of it looks as good as the outside I'd say the owner could get real close to $50k for that R/T if not more.

[mikepmcs]

I'm pretty sure he sold it in the $46-48 range
none of my biz so i didn't ask Danny but when I was there he was talking those numbers.  It was valued at around $51-53 somewhere in there.
r/
Mike

[mikepmcs]

Guys i need help, I don't think tobias is believing me or he doesn't understand all the posts on this one, he sent me this PM back today and below is it and my reply.  I need help letting Tobias knows that this is a potential scam.

Hello Mike!

Thanks for your information.

Seems to be al little bit tricky to get a good car for a good price ;-)

The guy offering the car offered it already in April this year, that was the time, when I first saw his add...it was a online-add, I think on collectorcartraderonline.com ... could look up the origianl online-add at home, have made a hardcopy of it. His add disappeared end of April. Thought that the car was sold, but a week ago he contacted me again and said that it was still available.

There was a US-phonenumber given in the add, but I only reached an answering machine with a very numbly spoken text...couldn`t understand it clearly.


Quite interesting is that one forum-guy says that everything is ok with that car/seller...maybe a friend, maybe himself, maybe true???

If I got you guys right, you don`t think gps-auto/escrow is a good idea, though it sounds as a good service/method from the basic idea to me.

I am not sure what to do now.

@update 16.May2006: gps-auto sent me two pics of the title...couldn`t open it due to problems with my internet-connection, gonna try it later this week. They answered also my question on shipping costs to Germany and told me that it was included in the sales-price of the car ;-)

Tobias, I am the forum member that said Mr Johnson is honest seller.  That car was sold to a gentleman in California.  Your ad that you posted says the car is in Tennessee right. It is not, I assure you, it is gone and sold.
I would not be trusting that gps-auto escrow at this point.  The previous owner Mr. Johnson does not use an escrow service to ship overseas.  You can contact Mr Johnson(the owner that just sold that car) if you would like via email and he will tell you what is what.  The pictures of the R/T in that ad were when it was still in his possession.  I really think someone is trying to rip you off,  I assure you it is not Mr Johnson. I vouch for him because I bought a car from him not 3 months ago and drove 1400 miles to pick it up.  I never even met him before then and had only talked to him on the phone.  I gave him the money just by talking to him on the phone to build my car, that is how much i trusted him by just talking to him.  Please be careful Tobias I believe you are being scammed out of money.  How much are they asking for the car??  One forum member had mentioned $30,000 us dollars.  That car was worth over $50,000 us dollars.  I would like to see the ad anyways cause I'm going to try to catch these crooks.
Please email Mr Johnson in Tennessee at johnsontopfarm@bellsouth.net and hear it straight from him if you don't believe me.
v/r
Mike McSweeney
Readfield, Maine
RMDRACING@adelphia.net

[BigBlockSam]

gps-auto/escrow, is in it with the scammer. they take all the money they can then disappear , DON'T DO IT!

[mikepmcs]

@update 16.May2006: gps-auto sent me two pics of the title...couldn`t open it due to problems with my internet-connection, gonna try it later this week. They answered also my question on shipping costs to Germany and told me that it was included in the sales-price of the car ;-)

This should be the tip off right here that it's probably not on the up and up.

[TobiasM]

Hello again!

@Limey: hi there "neighbour"! Yes, GB isn`t that far a way, is it. Could be an idea to get a car from/via UK. Very common here in Germany is to import a US-Car from Sweden, as they have a very enthusiastic scene for classic US-cars and so a range of offers. Thanks for the hind with the guy in the UK, that does import mopars!

@all/mike: I am sure I understand the most of your answers, but it develops to a very interesting contact with the "seller". As he claimed the title to be stored at gps-autos-team he asked them to mail me the title. So they did yesterday. Gonna print it out and inspect it for traces of trouble.
There are a lot of signs - and you all gave very good advise and help - that this is a fake-offer. But the thing facinating me is with how much effort these fakers seem to work. I am gonna keep contact with the "seller" and insist on a pic of the cars fendertag. I will keep you tuned to the future developments and won`t pay  a penny in advance - no chance!!!

[limey]

I'd give any info or correspondence on this to Mike, as he seems to be getting a handle on getting these scammers closed down. As long as you know to be very careful and keep your wallet shut on this one....it is very tempting when you are looking at such a beautiful machine to get ripped off...and  forget even the basic common sense.

As for getting cars from Sweden - I thought they were more into the "Fins and Chrome" 50's land yacht thing - you know like the huge Power Big Meet at Vasteras? - I know there are a few Mopars over there, but didn't realise it was a big scene....?
Limey

[TobiasM]

Hello @all, especially @mikems:

thanks for your advice in not going into this gps-auto-deal. Never heart again of the "seller" and never recevied a fendertag-pic.

Meanwhile I bought a German wing-warrior: a BMW 3.0 CSL, that was importet from Great Britain!

[Mefirst]

As for getting cars from Sweden - I thought they were more into the "Fins and Chrome" 50's land yacht thing - you know like the huge Power Big Meet at Vasteras? - I know there are a few Mopars over there, but didn't realise it was a big scene....?
Limey

Living in Sweden I would say that in Sweden you´ll find more muscle cars and of course Fin/Chrome 50´s cars than anywhere else in Europe.. The muscle car population is strong over here. Then again, sadly Chevys/Fords out number the Mopars like 10:1, but you´ll still find a nice number of Mopar cars here...

Tobias**** Check these internet pages http://www.muskelbilar.se/bilar.html www.usabilar.nu You´ll find allot of musclecars there, and its closer to buy your musclecar from Sweden than importing one from USA.. The page is in Swedish, but just click around and you´ll get to the sales adds... There are allot of Swedish guys who have good contacts in the States and import musclecars through them. I have not heard about any one being scammed or riped off yet... and if someone would do that, they would be out of business fast, thats the nice thing about living in a small country, word gets around fast...

Good Luck..

/Tom

[TobiasM]

Heida Tom och tack sa mycket för din hjälp! Jag kan talar en liten svensk och läsar en liten ochsa.

I will take a look at the homepages you recommended me, thanks.

Do you guys know moparstyle.net? I found there some interesting mopars, though not 68-70 Chargers...but nice at all and not overpriced, in my opinion.

CU,
Tobias