Latest thoughts on Zinc and additives

[bakerhillpins]

I use Rotella 20/50

Just a heads up, I'm pretty sure they took the zinc out of that.

For what it's worth this is a good oil read, albeit long: https://www.allpar.com/old/oils.php

At the end it talks about reading the API Service Symbol/Donut which is useful.

[b5blue]

  Interesting read, tempered with knowing the red flagged topic here saved my cam and lifters. 

[challenger70]

If I use valvoline VR1, can I move on to the next thing I have to worry about?

I am debating about running this next, I hear good things. 

[Aero426]

Just buy the correct oil.    (Diesel oil is not the correct oil).

There are now several off the shelf oils with elevated levels of ZDDP that will work great.

Valvoline VR-1 20W50 in the silver bottle (conventional)
Mobil 1 15W-50 
Mobil 1 4T bike oil.    (this is the 1990's NASCAR Mobil 1 formula)
Driven Hot Rod oil
Penn Grade 1 (formerly known as Brad Penn)
AmsOil Z-rod

[moparstuart]

Just buy the correct oil.    (Diesel oil is not the correct oil).

There are now several off the shelf oils with elevated levels of ZDDP that will work great.

Valvoline VR-1 20W50 in the silver bottle (conventional)
Mobil 1 15W-50 
Mobil 1 4T bike oil.    (this is the 1990's NASCAR Mobil 1 formula)
Driven Hot Rod oil
Penn Grade 1 (formerly known as Brad Penn)
AmsOil Z-rod

My Favorite is  https://www.amazon.com/Kendall-527-7138-Performance-20W-50-Titanium/dp/B003TQ1UA6      i also use the Valvoline 20 /50  racing   in a pinch 

[Aero426]

Just buy the correct oil.    (Diesel oil is not the correct oil).

There are now several off the shelf oils with elevated levels of ZDDP that will work great.

Valvoline VR-1 20W50 in the silver bottle (conventional)
Mobil 1 15W-50 
Mobil 1 4T bike oil.    (this is the 1990's NASCAR Mobil 1 formula)
Driven Hot Rod oil
Penn Grade 1 (formerly known as Brad Penn)
AmsOil Z-rod

My Favorite is  https://www.amazon.com/Kendall-527-7138-Performance-20W-50-Titanium/dp/B003TQ1UA6      i also use the Valvoline 20 /50  racing   in a pinch 

As a side point, the Valvoline VR-1 racing oil in the silver bottle has a street detergent package.   The black bottle version doesn't.   

[Aero426]

I use Rotella 20/50

Just a heads up, I'm pretty sure they took the zinc out of that.

It's more than that.   Diesel oils traditionally did have higher levels of ZDDP.   But they also have higher levels of detergents, which effectively tries to clean off the zinc.     That is the part that people miss when talking about using diesel oils.    

I know guys who are long term happy users of Rotella, etc because of the low cost.     Engine wear can happen over long periods of time.    Not everyone has an engine with crazy valve spring pressures either, so maybe you get by.   

[darbgnik]

It's more than that.   Diesel oils traditionally did have higher levels of ZDDP.   But they also have higher levels of detergents, which effectively tries to clean off the zinc.     That is the part that people miss when talking about using diesel oils.    

Didn't know that part.....

[John_Kunkel]

For what it's worth this is a good oil read, albeit long: https://www.allpar.com/old/oils.php

At the end it talks about reading the API Service Symbol/Donut which is useful.

Look at the date of that article, 2006.

[Challenger340]

Surprising what I see here at the Shop ? and the "phonecalls" we get ?
and,
even more surprising on this thread NO mention of the importance of KNOWING/CHECKING your Valve Spring Installed Pressures and Rates when using F.T. Cams ?

just saying here.....
everyone seems to know the importance of Zinc ZDDP, Phosphorous/Molybdenum additives in Oil for F.T. Cam break-in
yet,
nobody "seems" to actually recognize the importance ? in having their V/Spring pressures & rates checked for F.T. Cams beyond trusting a Book that says "use this Spring" and have some dork install for them ?

ASK whomever is checking/installing your V/Springs for a F.T. Cam:
1.) WHAT is the V/Spring Seat pressure at the installed height on my Heads ?
2.) What will the "over the Nose" V/Spring pressure be ?
3.) Did you check my V/Springs for  Rate ?(NOT look on the Box)

If you get blank stares to any of the above ? or the answer "within specs" ?   you may have a problem with your F.T. Cam no matter what Oil or additive you use !

[justcruisin]

I have been using Oil Extreme 5w30 in a 448 with a fast rate FT hyd cam, minimal zinc but it uses a calcium high pressure additive, no problems to date.

[440]

I've been using Royal Purple in all my performance F.T. cars since it hit the domestic market and have never had a problem, yes it's expensive but still cheaper than an engine rebuild.

[b5blue]

Surprising what I see here at the Shop ? and the "phonecalls" we get ?
and,
even more surprising on this thread NO mention of the importance of KNOWING/CHECKING your Valve Spring Installed Pressures and Rates when using F.T. Cams ?

just saying here.....
everyone seems to know the importance of Zinc ZDDP, Phosphorous/Molybdenum additives in Oil for F.T. Cam break-in
yet,
nobody "seems" to actually recognize the importance ? in having their V/Spring pressures & rates checked for F.T. Cams beyond trusting a Book that says "use this Spring" and have some dork install for them ?

ASK whomever is checking/installing your V/Springs for a F.T. Cam:
1.) WHAT is the V/Spring Seat pressure at the installed height on my Heads ?
2.) What will the "over the Nose" V/Spring pressure be ?
3.) Did you check my V/Springs for  Rate ?(NOT look on the Box)

If you get blank stares to any of the above ? or the answer "within specs" ?   you may have a problem with your F.T. Cam no matter what Oil or additive you use !

Very well put! 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Surprising what I see here at the Shop ? and the "phonecalls" we get ?
and,
even more surprising on this thread NO mention of the importance of KNOWING/CHECKING your Valve Spring Installed Pressures and Rates when using F.T. Cams ?

just saying here.....
everyone seems to know the importance of Zinc ZDDP, Phosphorous/Molybdenum additives in Oil for F.T. Cam break-in
yet,
nobody "seems" to actually recognize the importance ? in having their V/Spring pressures & rates checked for F.T. Cams beyond trusting a Book that says "use this Spring" and have some dork install for them ?

ASK whomever is checking/installing your V/Springs for a F.T. Cam:
1.) WHAT is the V/Spring Seat pressure at the installed height on my Heads ?
2.) What will the "over the Nose" V/Spring pressure be ?
3.) Did you check my V/Springs for  Rate ?(NOT look on the Box)

If you get blank stares to any of the above ? or the answer "within specs" ?   you may have a problem with your F.T. Cam no matter what Oil or additive you use !

1: 230 lbs
2: 680 lbs
3: 650/"
Solid roller, street driven, lots of zddp, spray bar oiling.

[flyinlow]

I switched to Mobil 1 0w -40 European formula (1000ppm zinc) very high film strength ,wear rating, and thermal breakdown ratings. Mild hydraulic flat tappet 440. Had been using Mobil 1 15w-50, higher zinc , poor wear rating. 4-5K miles a year. Change oil once a year. Had trust bearing issue last year.  Crank looked ok so changed to large flange trust bearing, 1976 block. Not sure if 15w -50 was any of the problem (way too thick oil) installed better Torque converter at the same time and switched to 0w-40. Let the games begin.

Use Valvoline 10w-30 synthetic racing in my sons 440 Charger. He drives less, so the short drain intervals are not a problem. 1-2K miles a year.

Using results from 540rat tests on oil.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I run lucas 20w50 in mine. The weight is dependent on how you built it and what you are doing with it.

[Back N Black]

I'm using Rotella 15-40 with the GM additive, 20,000 km no problems so far but the oil pressure seems a little high, 80 psi cold and 50 psi warm. Is that normal or should I go with a different grade oil? I'm getting a little mist on the air filter after a 60 km drive.

[cdr]

0-40 Lucas in my junk

[bakerhillpins]

For what it's worth this is a good oil read, albeit long: https://www.allpar.com/old/oils.php

At the end it talks about reading the API Service Symbol/Donut which is useful.

Look at the date of that article, 2006.

The date of the article alone dosen't invalidate the article or otherwise render the information in it incorrect. If you have issues with or possibly new information since the time of publishing then by all means bring that forward. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

[c00nhunterjoe]

They also said ulsd fuel wont affect the older diesels.... and ethanol fuel wont effect carburetors...

[bakerhillpins]

They also said ulsd fuel wont affect the older diesels.... and ethanol fuel wont effect carburetors...

Who is they? and where did they say that?  I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm not.  I'd really like to know.

Most of the articles I read at the time cited several upgrades/modifications necessary to handle the fuel blend change with respect to components not designed for the mix or the equipment just plainly said don't use a specific blend. So logically, if one stripped out the details of the discussion and just ran with the generalized conclusion then yea, you would get into trouble.

[John_Kunkel]

For what it's worth this is a good oil read, albeit long: https://www.allpar.com/old/oils.php

At the end it talks about reading the API Service Symbol/Donut which is useful.

Look at the date of that article, 2006.

The date of the article alone dosen't invalidate the article or otherwise render the information in it incorrect. If you have issues with or possibly new information since the time of publishing then by all means bring that forward. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Since 2006, the introduction of catalytic converters on diesels might make the info out of date.

[c00nhunterjoe]

They also said ulsd fuel wont affect the older diesels.... and ethanol fuel wont effect carburetors...

Who is they? and where did they say that?  I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm not.   I'd really like to know.

Most of the articles I read at the time cited several upgrades/modifications necessary to handle the fuel blend change with respect to components not designed for the mix or the equipment just plainly said don't use a specific blend. So logically, if one stripped out the details of the discussion and just ran with the generalized conclusion then yea, you would get into trouble.

They is the government. And they put it on the gas pumps.

[bakerhillpins]

Since 2006, the introduction of catalytic converters on diesels might make the info out of date.

Ah, yes. Good point. That didn't occur to me. I wonder if that's going to change the API service designation for the oil blends that support those changes.  Oh, and apologies, re-reading my post made me realize that I sounded snarky. Not the intent. 

They is the government. And they put it on the gas pumps.

It only says that it's required for 2007 or newer vehicles so I'm confused as to how that classifies as saying it's OK for older Diesels/carbs. Likewise, it only recommends it for small engines. I don't read that as saying it's a universal fuel option.   

[c00nhunterjoe]

Since 2006, the introduction of catalytic converters on diesels might make the info out of date.

Ah, yes. Good point. That didn't occur to me. I wonder if that's going to change the API service designation for the oil blends that support those changes.  Oh, and apologies, re-reading my post made me realize that I sounded snarky. Not the intent. 

They is the government. And they put it on the gas pumps.

It only says that it's required for 2007 or newer vehicles so I'm confused as to how that classifies as saying it's OK for older Diesels/carbs. Likewise, it only recommends it for small engines. I don't read that as saying it's a universal fuel option.   

Sign's 2nd sentence clearly state "reccomended for all diesel engines"