Overheating issues

[garner7555]

Ok guys, since completing my car I have been driving it whenever the weather permits.  In fairly warm temps (80* F) the car will be at 180* after warm up and I hit the road but after 10-15 minutes of driving 50-55 mph the temp will start to climb.  It will get up to 200-210 in about 5 minutes after it starts to climb and by this point I am normally getting into town where there are stop signs and red lights to deal with making it jump up to 230* - 240* which means I have to shut it down and let it cool. 

I already have this fan that I plan to install to help it stay cool when moving slow or sitting still.  http://www.rainbowproductsonline.com/shroud-fan-assembly/cf-item20017-dual-cage.php

What has me confused is it getting hotter while driving.  I will add links to my setup for cooling and you guys let me know if something needs upgrading.
I have this water pump and housing from Mancini                  https://www.manciniracing.com/mabhivowapuh.html
This crossflow radiator from Summit                       https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-380460


My setup is a 69 Charger with mild 440 (sidwinder heads, 9.96 compression, RPM intake with FiTech throttle body injection)  727 trans., car has a huge transmission cooler in front of the radiator.  I also have vintage air A/C on the car as it gets up to 95* here in Alabama

Thanks for the help

[BLK 68 R/T]

Does your bottom radiator hose have a spring inside to keep it from collapsing?

[comet_666]

Does your bottom radiator hose have a spring inside to keep it from collapsing?

what he said...

[garner7555]

No, I don't think it does have a spring.  I will check that and see.  I really hope it could be that simple.   I wouldn't have thought that it would collapse the hose but with the high volume pump that may be the problem.     Thanks guys.   

[b5blue]

I think I got my spring from "Blue Oval Corral" a Mustang supply sight. (Stainless)

[BLK 68 R/T]

Yep, try the spring and see if that helps. Easy first step to try anyways 

[garner7555]

I checked and I do not have the spring in the lower hose.  Did you guys just buy a spring and put it inside your existing hose?   Thanks.

[Yada]

Check this out https://www.cjponyparts.com/lower-radiator-hose-spring-stainless-steel-small-block-1965-1973/p/HW769/ Someone on this forum suggested this earlier but I can't find the post now.

[justcruisin]

You should be able to see if not having a spring is the problem by bring it up to temp so the thermostat opens then holding the revs at your normal cruse rpm and seeing if the lower hose is collapsing. A collapsing lower hose can be a sign of a restriction in the system or too much flow. Or a crap hose.

[Mopar Nut]

Check this out https://www.cjponyparts.com/lower-radiator-hose-spring-stainless-steel-small-block-1965-1973/p/HW769/ Someone on this forum suggested this earlier but I can't find the post now.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,134597.msg1672313.html#msg1672313

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,129396.0.html

[Yada]

Check this out https://www.cjponyparts.com/lower-radiator-hose-spring-stainless-steel-small-block-1965-1973/p/HW769/ Someone on this forum suggested this earlier but I can't find the post now.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,134597.msg1672313.html#msg1672313

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,129396.0.html

Hey, there it pops up, just like that 

@justcruisin: make sure your system does not leak air and stays pressurized, this helps booth to reduce pump cavitation and raises the boiling point of water. Never open the radiator cap when hot, then you loose the pressure that was raised during engine warmup. Water expands when temperature rises.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

How is the flow in the radiator when the thermostat opens up? Also what thermostat are you running?   

I did not have good luck with the high flow pump with a/c and had to switch to a standard flow a/c pump. But I've seen others that make it work just fine? So I'd check to see if the hose is collapsing and how it is flowing before throwing any money at it.

[Bronzedodge]

My experience -

1 Your radiator may be dirtier than you think.  Always use distilled water - too much minerals in tap water.  I do a flush every other year, and catch the rinse water.  If it's not clear after a 30 min drive, I keep rinsing.

2 Your thermostat might be slowing your flow.  If a summer drive without the thermostat cures it, try a high flow one from EMP-Stewart.   

[darbgnik]

Checking your thermostat is an easy first step, if your hoses aren't collapsing. Is your lower hose custom fit, or the accordion style? While the accordion is ugly, they are very rigid.

I just replaced my rad and installed electric fans on mine using the below parts:
rad, stock-ish looking
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1966-72-MOPAR-B-E-BODY-BLACK-ALUMINUM-26-RADIATOR-ROADRUNNER-CHALLENGER-CUDA/351583436713?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
dual puller fans
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/52116/10002/-1

It seems puller fans work better than pusher fans, and I would assume the rainbow fan you linked will be used as an auxiliary pusher? Also, it seems to me the Summit radiator will need some tab trimming to mount, plus custom runs to the tranny cooler location? See my build thread for what I did, just as an example.

[Back N Black]

Checking your thermostat is an easy first step, if your hoses aren't collapsing. Is your lower hose custom fit, or the accordion style? While the accordion is ugly, they are very rigid.

I just replaced my rad and installed electric fans on mine using the below parts:
rad, stock-ish looking
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1966-72-MOPAR-B-E-BODY-BLACK-ALUMINUM-26-RADIATOR-ROADRUNNER-CHALLENGER-CUDA/351583436713?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
dual puller fans
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/52116/10002/-1

It seems puller fans work better than pusher fans, and I would assume the rainbow fan you linked will be used as an auxiliary pusher? Also, it seems to me the Summit radiator will need some tab trimming to mount, plus custom runs to the tranny cooler location? See my build thread for what I did, just as an example.

That's a nice Rad and a good price.

[garner7555]

How is the flow in the radiator when the thermostat opens up? Also what thermostat are you running?   

I did not have good luck with the high flow pump with a/c and had to switch to a standard flow a/c pump. But I've seen others that make it work just fine? So I'd check to see if the hose is collapsing and how it is flowing before throwing any money at it.

How did you come to the conclusion that the pump had too much flow?   This has me worried that this may be my problem.

[garner7555]

I added a spring to the lower hose (a cheap and easy thing to try).   While in the shop, I also built brackets and mounted my Rainbow electric fan    http://www.rainbowproductsonline.com/shroud-fan-assembly/cf-item20017-dual-cage.php             Today it was warm (80* F) and I finally had 15 minutes to take it down the road.  I let the car idle until up to operating temp (180*) and then hit the road.  Cruising backroads at 40-50 mph it very slowly climbs in Temp.  I made a short loop around back to my house and had to shut the car down due to the temps getting up to 230*   I let the fan run for a couple minutes, fired the car up for a minute to circulate coolant and shut it back down until it got the temps back to around 200*.   After this I opened the radiator cap up (very carefully, I knew it would puke hot coolant out) and fired the car up without cap.  This is where things got strange.  I was watching for coolant flow and it would suck the coolant level down low in the radiator, then surge back to the top of the radiator and overflow.  It would continue this pattern, suck the level down very low in the radiator for 30-45 seconds and then suddenly surge back to full and overflow for 30 seconds to 1 minute.   Is my higher flow water pump causing flow issues?   Is my thermostat causing flow issues?   Is trash or rust build up in coolant passages causing flow issues?   This is a problem that I haven't experienced before so any advice or insight is greatly appreciated.   Thanks, Clark.   

[Mopar Nut]

Sounds like you have a air bubble in your engine or wrong water pump. Make sure the thermostat has a bleeder hole. Do you have a infrared thermometer to check your engine temperature? Your gauge might be bad.

[garner7555]

I have 2 gauges, one mechanical autometer and one electric wired into my EFI, so I feel like the temp is accurate but it never hurts to verify.  It hasn't acted like an air lock problem in the past, but who knows at this point.   I'm about ready to tear it apart to remove the thermostat and test it (possibly just replace it).   What temp thermostat does everyone recommend?  I have A/C, EFI, and aluminum heads if any of that makes a difference for thermostat.   Thanks in advance.

[BLK 68 R/T]

FWIW I have a napa 180* thermotat. FAST ez efi, firecore dizzy with vacuum advance, A/C and aluminum heads, aluminum radiator with clutch fan and factory shroud, 440 source pump and housing. I was out last summer when it was 104* outside with the a/c blasting and never got past 200* coolant temp according to the handheld computer. I did seal my radiator to the core support to make sure to direct as much air through the radiator as possible, hood to radiator core support seal is also installed.

Possible that engine timing is off just enough to cause it to slowly heat up or wrong heat range plugs perhaps? 

[Challenger340]

let me guess..... are you attempting to run a 185-190* Stat because the parts counter guy said so ?

WHAT TEMPERATURE THERMOSTAT ARE YOU ATTEMPTING TO RUN IN THIS APPLICATION ?
That being...
with the BIG Tans Cooler and the A/C Condenser BOTH in front of the Radiator ?
and remember also
Timing can have a dramatic effect on how much of the Cylinder wall is exposed to peak combustion temps to heat sink and cooling system loads.


Chase your tail all you want, but until you install a 160* Thermostat as a start point, the latent Heat will continue to build. And even a 160* may require a 1/4" bypass hole drilled in it.
BTW,
FORGET what the Parts counter dorks say is the "correct" temp thermostat, you can NOT run anymore than a 160 Stat.

[alfaitalia]

Thermostat rating will have very little effect on how hot your engine gets....it only really controls the minimum temp you car will run at....ie the temp at which your coolant will start passing water through the radiator ....and therefore it will close on the highway to stop your engine being over cooled.. The max temp you engine runs at will be dictated by the size/volume of your radiator, the point at which you fan kicks in (if electric) or runs full bore (if mechanical). Stat has no control at all over how hot your engine gets in traffic or in very hot conditions.

[garner7555]

let me guess..... are you attempting to run a 185-190* Stat because the parts counter guy said so ?

WHAT TEMPERATURE THERMOSTAT ARE YOU ATTEMPTING TO RUN IN THIS APPLICATION ?
That being...
with the BIG Tans Cooler and the A/C Condenser BOTH in front of the Radiator ?
and remember also
Timing can have a dramatic effect on how much of the Cylinder wall is exposed to peak combustion temps to heat sink and cooling system loads.


Chase your tail all you want, but until you install a 160* Thermostat as a start point, the latent Heat will continue to build. And even a 160* may require a 1/4" bypass hole drilled in it.
BTW,
FORGET what the Parts counter dorks say is the "correct" temp thermostat, you can NOT run anymore than a 160 Stat.

I'm sorry that my post has you so upset, that was never my intention.  To answer your question, I am running a 180* thermostat because that is what 70-80% of the people on this forum advised when I used the search function and looked through old threads, not because I went to Autozone looking for advice.

I did a little further testing this morning and fired the car up cold without the radiator cap.  Once it reached 180* it maintained that temp indefinitely.  Coolant flow looked great, but it is too fast.  At 700 RPM it works fine but when I increase to 1200 RPM it is blasting water through the radiator far too fast for there to be adequate time to cool the water.   I can only imagine what it is doing at 2500-3000RPM (cruise speed).   Looks like White and Red 69 was correct above when he said the high volume pump from Mancini could be the problem.   Where is the best place to source a Factory flow A/C style pump?   Thanks everyone for your input.   

[b5blue]

I'd try Rockauto. 

[garner7555]

All I am seeing offered on Summit's website is high volume and standard volume.   Is there also a OEM A/C option?  I feel like I should just stick with a standard volume after seeing the amount of flow the high volume generated this morning.   What is everyone's thoughts on this?  Thanks.