How are your "Green axle bearings" holding up?

[Nacho-RT74]

Am I being fed a line on green bearings being required for rear disks?

Conventional wisdom say discs don't work well with the factory specified end play in the tapered bearings, but look at the front wheel tapered  bearings...they can be run with zero endplay and survive, so why not run the rear axle tapered bearings at zero end play?

I'd say because maybe there are more moving parts involved on the metal dilatation with heat ? axles, spacer, aside of course the bearings itself

but maybe just 0.002-3"? instead the factory 0.008"

( just thinking out loud )

[tonyskala]

I found Doctor diff in another thread here and also found him referenced in a youtube video. I looked him up last night but it looks like he is out for a few days.

I am running 11inch cross drilled rotors on both front and rear. It is the standard pirate jack kit. I already did the fronts and it went together really well. I am pleased so far on fitment. My old fox body had the same front bearing setup and it worked just fine. I was just worried about see rears. In retrospect I probably should have just left the rear drums but I purchased a kit with the whole thing. And from working on the car thus far. it all needs to be gone through. So doing the bearings anyway is a good idea.

In other thread there was info about the green bearings with the locking ring much much better and 2 variants of it 1 with a thicker ring 1 with a thinner ring. I think I will go with that the thicker locking ring. Also doctor diff is much cheaper than anywhere else I looked on these bearings. it was like 75 for the pair.

I will ring him on Thursday.

Thanks for the help

[John_Kunkel]

Also note that Doc Diff offers a rear disc kit that can be used with factory bearings....so it's doable.

[tonyskala]

Yeah, I probably jumped the gun too quick and got the first one I saw because I bought from the same guy for GM car I have. I liked the kit and decided he offered and decided to get the same kit from the same manufacture but for the mopar. But I certainly should have consulted this forum first. Lesson Learned. But thanks for the setting straight.

[flyinlow]

I have 35K + on snap ring green bearing for rear disk brakes Mod.  One got noisy after 25-30K miles and was replaced. Noise developed over a couple thousand miles, did not fail suddenly and strand me.

Now with disk brake kits that use the tapered bearings ,I would go that route. 

[tonyskala]

Forgot to reply.
I did call Dr Diff and the fella I talked to cut me off as he has heard the same question over and over. He got straight to the point and he told me exactly what I needed and how to do it and then explained why these green bearings were needed. I bought the green bearings from him.

And From earlier the rotors for both front and back are 11 inches. What I don't like is that I have to use a 1 inch wheel spacer because the rims i got sat too far in. I already mounted tires and they would not take them back after I mounted them. I am worried about the stress on the lugs. I was told that 1 inch would not make a difference. That extra stress would come from added weight and the distance further way from the rotor the wheel sat. I am in the process of rebuilding the steering column now which is another saga

[John_Kunkel]

He got straight to the point and he told me exactly what I needed and how to do it and then explained why these green bearings were needed.

What was the explanation of the need for Green bearings?

[Kern Dog]

Mopar guys like Rick Ehrenberg state that the ball bearing design is inferior. At the same time, he did a series of articles on a build up of a '70 Road Runner that was built in New York and driven across country to be loaded onto a shipping container in San Francisco CA....all 3000+ miles with ball bearing axle bearings.

[Mike DC]

  

Mopar guys like Rick Ehrenberg state that the ball bearing design is inferior. At the same time, he did a series of articles on a build up of a '70 Road Runner that was built in New York and driven across country to be loaded onto a shipping container in San Francisco CA....all 3000+ miles with ball bearing axle bearings.

                 
That's a few thousand easygoing street miles, though.  It's not gonna put a lot of lateral loads on the bearings.    
   

[Nacho-RT74]

I'm wondering, when tappered bearings become on a "questionable" setup ? And how many times you have had to deal with them in the past to be worried about them ? There is not even in fact a "performance upgrade" going to ball bearings! there is nothing really noticeable to win, except on the need to get them adjusted... yeah, right, just once then a recheck after some miles, but maybe every 10 years if being a driver!

[John_Kunkel]

Forgot to reply.
I did call Dr Diff and the fella I talked to cut me off as he has heard the same question over and over.

Doc Diff hisself (Cass) has stated many times that he got tired of answering questions about adjusting the factory bearings and now recommends the Greens because they need no adjustment. When questioned about the durability of ball bearings vs the factory tapered bearings he repeatedly notes that many factory installations use ball bearings. I'm still not convinced.

I know that anecdotal experience varies, I've never seen a factory bearing fail but I've seen a fistful of the Greens fail.

[b5blue]

  I'm running "Greens" because of tapered failure. 5-6 years of hard constant driving with 300LBS of tools stuffed in the trunk I picked up a slight growl coming from right rear. The bearing race was brindled upon removal and checking. I've a pair of NOS factory bearing replacement service packs that even include new adjusters waiting for any trouble from "Greens" installed 8 years ago.
  The aspect that sucks for tapered is proper greasing is a PIA after installation.

[Mike DC]

  

Doc Diff hisself (Cass) has stated many times that he got tired of answering questions about adjusting the factory bearings and now recommends the Greens because they need no adjustment.  When questioned about the durability of ball bearings vs the factory tapered bearings he repeatedly notes that many factory installations use ball bearings. I'm still not convinced.

That is not really a fair comparison.  IIRC the modern factory hubs that use ball bearings are typically a more complex double-row design.  The greens are a simpler deal so they can retrofit into a spot designed for tapered.    

[flyinlow]

I would think the tapered bearings are under side loads all the time. They do have a large   surface area to support this. Right now the 1970 Charger in my garage is parked with one roller on each axle bearing at the twelve o'clock position holding approximately 1000 lb. load against the bearing cone which is tapered. The bearing wants slide down and out of the cone and if not for the retainers powerful grip on the axle it would.  Parked  next  to it is a 1973 Charger with green bearings. The ball bearing have the same load on them, but there is currently no side load on them. If the retainer split and lost its grip on the axle the car/bearing /axle would just sit there ,until driven.  I have  cornered hard at times with no problems.  I do expect to replace the green ones every decade or so.

I agree with John_Kunkel  that properly maintained tapered roller bearings will last longer. The few I saw fail back the days when these cars where daily drivers where from neglect or improper maintenance.

[tonyskala]

Yes, so I guess his name is Cass at Dr. Diff.... Well he said it they were needed because of side load. But he also said either green or tapered will require some maintenance, and that folks that The green have rubber o rings. Those will break down ofter a while but he said like 10 years, 100k miles.

Either way he was pretty clear that the setup I had required the green bearings, When I told him I drive like a jerk no matter what car I am in and will most likely even be a bigger jerk in this car.. .he still said 10 years 100K... He did not have a concern about the greens being beat up.

[Kern Dog]

Forgot to reply.
I did call Dr Diff and the fella I talked to cut me off as he has heard the same question over and over.

Doc Diff hisself (Cass) has stated many times that he got tired of answering questions about adjusting the factory bearings and now recommends the Greens because they need no adjustment. When questioned about the durability of ball bearings vs the factory tapered bearings he repeatedly notes that many factory installations use ball bearings. I'm still not convinced.

I know that anecdotal experience varies, I've never seen a factory bearing fail but I've seen a fistful of the Greens fail.

I agree.
Many people sing the praises of Dr Diff. I think that he is smart and helpful but to me, the Ball Bearing design is an answer to a question that very few people asked. Adjusting the factory bearings is not difficult unless you are an absolute newbie or a total mouth breather.