HP Performance 426 Hemi Block - any good?

[Mike DC]

  

An iron block car can hug those turns with a firm feel suspension. Hell, stock suspension can do that with some tweaks. 150 lbs off the nose of a 2 ton sled is not a drastic change on a STREET car.

Yeah but any weight problem can be band-aided.  It's still a problem.

150 lbs . . . in stock iron motors, that's the difference between a slant-6 versus a 383/400.  Or a 318 vs 440.  426 Hemi vs 383/400.  

Try telling the AAR Cuda & Challenger TA crowd that a lighter motor is not a street practical difference.  They would laugh.  The A-body crowd would laugh even louder.  



I don't expect most of the muscle car hobby to care about this.  But most of the muscle car hobby only wants to go in a straight line.  Any time somebody mentions a "race car" in a discussion or classified ad, you can assume it's a drag car by default unless they specify otherwise.  The fact that most of the hobby doesn't care about handling mods does not make handling mods less effective.  

[c00nhunterjoe]

Weight problem? You mean like buying a barracuda instead of a charger.... good point. Start with the lighter platform to fix the weight problem of a road course car. Or spend the extra 7,000 dollars for the aluminum block on a complete suspension system and still have money left over. Comes down to what you specifically want. Like i said, i have both blocks in different cars. I would personally not build an aluminum block motor unless it was a dedicated race car- drag OR road. It is not hard to move 150 lbs of nose weight off the front of a 2 ton car to balance the cg. The drag guys do it with steel blocks all the time.

[Mike DC]

 

Like i said, i have both blocks in different cars. I would personally not build an aluminum block motor unless it was a dedicated race car- drag OR road.

Just curious - is that reluctance due to higher initial setup cost & PITAs with alloy blocks for a street car?  Or does the alloy block have ongoing reliability/servicing PITAs after you've already spent the money and built it (correctly)? 

[c00nhunterjoe]

Its more the headache from the consumer. If i told you i was building you a 12:1 engine for your street car, what would you say to me? Somehow i think you would say, no no i want a 9:1 engine. There are no inheritant faults with the aluminum block. You have to take more precision when machining and as i said before, alot dont have lifter bushings or oil passages to the lifters so that is not something i would run on a low rpm street car. All things that can be done, but it adds to the cost, and when it comes strictly down to weight being the reason in a street car. its not worth the money in my opinion. Indy blocks for instance,  also do not come with motor mount provisions so you have to run front and midplates with them. Another item not typical on a street car. Lots of variables. Nothing wrong with them, i have one, but just not for the avg street car.

[Mike DC]

  

Its more the headache from the consumer. If i told you i was building you a 12:1 engine for your street car, what would you say to me? Somehow i think you would say, no no i want a 9:1 engine.

That doesn't surprise me.  People can be hard to deal with.  It's usually the most basic stuff too.    

IMO if you don't trust your engine builder to decide what compression would meet your wants . . . then why are you hiring him?  

There are no inheritant faults with the aluminum block. You have to take more precision when machining and as i said before, alot dont have lifter bushings or oil passages to the lifters so that is not something i would run on a low rpm street car. All things that can be done, but it adds to the cost, and when it comes strictly down to weight being the reason in a street car. its not worth the money in my opinion. Indy blocks for instance,  also do not come with motor mount provisions so you have to run front and midplates with them. Another item not typical on a street car. Lots of variables. Nothing wrong with them, i have one, but just not for the avg street car.

That's what I've heard other people in the industry say.  There is a learning curve and more stuff to do.  But an alloy block can work reliably on the street if you throw enough money & effort at it initially.  

[c00nhunterjoe]

Not just can, it will work. And reliably if you do it right.it will cost more to buy, more to machine, and more to build, but they are "better"

[Q5XX29]

I'm running two all-aluminum FHO Hemis, one is a Keith Black 14.5:1 cross ram in my original LO23 Hemi Dart, built for race use with occasional jaunts on the street (didn't go all-out on brutal valvetrain options). The other is a 10.5:1 Indy Maxx block (using motor mounts, by the way), making 813 hp on 91 pump gas with a cross ram intake. For me, and for many others, those 150+ lbs of weight savings are worth every penny.  Different priorities for different folks, but different budgets accounts for most of the dispute here. If you can swing the extra dough for the alloy options and the extra care required to set it up right, there's no other reason to go iron than cost.

[c00nhunterjoe]

You must have got russ on a good day. We were told no motor mount provisions available on the aluminum maxx block. Both blocks i have are cast that way. That would make a huge difference on a street car. Also cost an additional 1,000 dollars to have the lifter galley drilled for oil from him vs the 250 i think the site said......

[Q5XX29]

Tim Banning (ForHemisOnly) might have had some pull... He was a pretty big customer before he bought part-stake in Keith Black.

[Mike DC]

             
Alloy blocks are known for being very weld-able.  I wonder if anyone has tried fabbing & welding mounts onto a block that didn't come with them.  

[c00nhunterjoe]

             
Alloy blocks are known for being very weld-able.  I wonder if anyone has tried fabbing & welding mounts onto a block that didn't come with them.  

Sure, you could weld them, but now we have added probably another grand between cnc work, templates, and welding. On a street car.... the block alone is easily up to 10 grand. Race car as stated- yup, worth it, weekend warrior? No way. They guys on here will cringe at the thought of a 30,000 engine.

[Mike DC]

 

Sure, you could weld them, but now we have added probably another grand between cnc work, templates, and welding. On a street car.... the block alone is easily up to 10 grand. Race car as stated- yup, worth it, weekend warrior? No way. They guys on here will cringe at the thought of a 30,000 engine.

True enough.  I'm just spitballing. 

[Lennard]

"HP Performance 426 Hemi Block - any good?"

And nobody answered the o.p.'s question.

[ChargedNJ]

"HP Performance 426 Hemi Block - any good?"

And nobody answered the o.p.'s question.

Yea really I'm seeing that Mopar Performance is offering a 426 hemi block now also. Not much detail on Jegs but I assume cast iron?

[c00nhunterjoe]

"HP Performance 426 Hemi Block - any good?"

And nobody answered the o.p.'s question.

Early on i know they had issues, i think a partner in the company also caused problems. I dont know anything about them today.

[ChargedNJ]

I spoke to bill Mitchell yesterday,  suuuuper nice and helpful dude. His newest block is nearly done, and the old version of it (world products) seems to be well-regraded. Maybe one day , but for now...way out of my budget, so I'm sticking with my viper v10 plan.

[ChargedNJ]

Does a 383 and 426 hemi mount in the same way/spots on a 68 charger or are they unique setups? I assume the latter..

[Mike DC]

    
Yeah, 426 Hemis had their own unique engine mounts different from all the other V8s.  The factory made dedicated K-frames for them.  (The reason was probably for better header clearance on race cars.  The 383-440 mount got pretty near the steering box on the driver side.)


I don't know what the situation is with repro Hemi engine blocks these days.  In the past some have been available with either Hemi or non-Hemi mount holes on the block.    

There have been a bunch of aftermarket brackets & stuff made over the years to deal with these issues.  

   

[ChargedNJ]

Thanks bud. I'm in the process of swapping out my 383 for a v10 but I can't get comfortable with that sound! So I'm thinking to sell the 10 and stick with my 383 until I can afford my dream 426. I figured one advantage to going up from the 383 to the 426 would be similar mounting, but I guess not. Definitely less work than modifying for the v10, but still not as easy as I had hoped!

[Mike DC]

  
Mega Parts does a service where they convert a regular K-frame over to the 426 Hemi type.  Costs about $600 + a donor K-frame.  The end result looks just like a factory Hemi K-frame.    

Figure a few hundred dollars more for the Hemi-specific mounts to go between the K-frame and the block . . . the whole conversion might burn you for $1000.  

Downside - that K-frame is now committed to using 426 Hemis only.  They hack off the 318-440 mounts in the conversion process.      



  - I've never heard anyone saying the V10 conversion was easy or cheap.  And its status as the ultimate modern Mopar engine pretty much ended with the Hellcats/Demons.  If the V10 isn't your first choice then I wouldn't go with it.

[ChargedNJ]

I'm doing a full roadster shop chassis, so mounting the motor would be a custom job, pretty much no matter what (except 426 it turns out). But you're right, the V10 conversion requires a lot of firewall fab, wiring, etc. But it is a very cost efficient way to get 500+ cu and a lot of NA horsepower compared to the demons/hellcats that need blowers. But that damn sound though! Sounds great at idle and has a cool sound at high rpm in its own way, but it's not that v8 rev...ugh. This will be fun.

[1974dodgecharger]

there, ok 

[ChargedNJ]

Omg that looks gorgeous! Iron?

[1974dodgecharger]

Omg that looks gorgeous! Iron?

yes sir, had a choice iron or aluminum...I chose iron for the streets.

[ACUDANUT]

 Does it have motor mount tabs ?