Sad. But our old cars are going to mean nothing.

[60Buick]

The value of these cars will come down drastically at some point. We may see it or we may not in our lifetime. As each generation moves forward what is valuable to one generation may not be to another. The model T is a good example. Who here wants one? Show of hands...am I the only one?

When my grandfather was alive he wanted a 1917 Model T touring car. At one time they were expensive and even costlier to restore. He could not afford one. He died never being able to afford what is cheap today. After his passing I looked at buying a restored one that was out of a museum for 8k. They are impractical and almost useless today unless you hold fond memories of them. That is the cycle everything falls into. I own military vehicles that elderly collectors were grateful to sell me because no one wanted them anymore but they were worth decent money just 20 years ago.

Any model railroaders here or is it just me? The hobby Is dying because with video games kids are not taking to it. Video games are cheap instant gratification, trains are not. Trains are dirt cheap at train shows now because of all the stuff that used to be a joy to some poor chap who has passed is not desired by the masses anymore. I bought stuff for penny's on the dollar to build my youngest son a train layout at the last train show. The same cycle compounded by the massive tech advances from the last 35 years affects cars too. Cars are no longer freedom, they get online to escape the everyday. So there is no bond with a car today like we had. My step kids throw cars away every few years never even having named them. The fact that my cars have names is dumb to them, like naming the toaster. They are an appliance that only needs to look good for social media and have an affordable payment.

Cheap instant gratification....that's the main problem. New cars are a status symbol today and every car show I attend will have several new cars in it, all owned by the bank. Credit is easy and after a simple signature your in the club.

THAT IS WHERE THINGS ARE AT TODAY

I was asked to join a car club by a guy at a gas staton who saw my new Challenger. I bit and went to a huge car show they were trying to pack. I drove my 1960 Belvedere. They had no interest and wanted to know where the "Chally" was. I said "in my driveway where it belongs this is a car show". I moved into the old car section only to learn everyone over there calls the new car area the "donor car section". The old car guys appreciate all cars and walk around looking at stuff and socializing, while the next generation only seemed to stand in front of what they bought wanting to show it off.

Without the emotional attachment earlier generations have with cars the demand will fall.  Cars are less of a priority and more of an expense. There is no way around it. Sadly your great grand child might trade your hemi car for a new sofa and think it was a bargain.

[alfaitalia]

Well that cheered me up!.....thanks for that!!

[Mike DC]

 
Maybe it's because I internalized this stuff already, but it doesn't really bug me.

What does "the future" even mean?  100 years?  500 years?  In the end we're all dust.  

[taxspeaker]

About a year ago Doug Schellinger wrote an excellent summary in the Aero Club newsletter about the future of the car hobby. I agreed almost completely with what he said then and where things are now and are going. He commented that the rare wings and hemis will always retain an unknown value just because of their rarity, that the rest would not. I spent the entire weekend at Mecum (Louisville) bidding on several cars and buying none. Here are my observations:

This was my 1st time at a live Mecum or BJ auction. I am glad that I went-the show itself was amazing for the production, co-ordination and friendliness of the Mecum folks. The cars however left a lot to be desired. I went expecting to see a car show environment where everything was clean, polished and "attempted-to-be-perfect" and I saw a lot of fresh paint over unknown bodies, engine compartments & interiors jack legged over 30 years and an occasional diamond in the rough. The Hemi GTX 4-speed that I went to look at was numbers matching but had a new coat of paint over some pretty strong bondo work in the bottom of the fenders, pitted tail lamp lenses and rear panels and enough little issues that to me showed lack of pride in ownership. It went for $100k if you add buyer's premium which I felt was probably fair, just too rich for me.

I agree on the rare cars holding some value-probably not where they are today, but going up slowly just because of rare numbers.
Mecum's buyers in person, and on TV are older for the most part, but in their 40's for the special cars which do still hold some interest.
Nearly every resto-mod did not sell. I believe that is because they were resto-modded to the current owner's desires (fine), but not with an eye to resell. Dual quads just don't get it in an era of EFI and Superchargers. Lowered cars look good on TV but are not streetable. The under age 50 buyers don't want roller cams and undriveable race cars, they want smooth power, driveability and modern conveniences of a/c, bluetooth, cruise and dependability, and I can't fault them for it

The market always changes, but the realities are that if you have an older car enjoy it for yourself, do what you want to re-create the dream, but don't plan on making any of it back. Funny thing is I've been living that prediction for 40 years, and would not want to know how much I've thrown away in them, having determined it has all been worth it. When I kick the bucket my son will be presented with an auction decision but his Dad will have enjoyed the heck out of them, been proven to be pretty eccentric and royally pissed off his daughter-in-law who somehow believes Dad's money is her money.
Changing my onscreen handle to Crazy Bob soon, right after next summer's Alaska highway recreation in the 4-speed Blue Bird.

[alfaitalia]

 

[charger_fan_4ever]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

[taxspeaker]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytons and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. I about 70/30 went for supra. Guys late 30s 40's.

not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

[NCMopar]

While I understand the OPs sentiment, my personal experience has been different. I drive my car quite a bit and everybody just stops in their tracks. Kids (teens to 30) come out of the wood work to walk over and see it. Some know what it is and some just think I'm Vin Diesel... Also, the way I see it, any money spent on the car hobby is good for everyone who loves cars, regardless of make/model. Somebody spending $ at PepBoys to add fake fender vents and lowering springs is a signal to the aftermarket that people are still interested in modifying their cars and that does have a positive impact on us.  

I also think that these cars will continue to be valuable, given that we now have the capability to make them reliable and safer to drive. Everything done to my car is completely reversible, should my family decide to sell it when I'm in the dirt. We drove it to the Auto Fair in Charlotte this weekend and it was solid as a rock. I cruised at 75 on the highway, at 2400 RPM (OD trans), started every time and no vapor lock in traffic (FAST EFI), braked consistently (4 wheels discs and Hydroboost) and hugged the road (upgraded T-bar suspension and 17" wheels). I think if anything, the RestoMod trend will mean that these cars will continue to be appreciated, which will lead to $. Also, look at it like this. Every time a car reaches the point where it's only attainable by a few, the cars that are similar and from the same era start to rise in value (GNX to GN to T-Type/Turbo T, for example). These things will be around, they represent something that just doesn't exist anymore and ALL people know it. Enjoy your rig. Go drive the piss out of it and when you're done with the car, I guarantee someone will want to take your place in the drivers seat.

I'll tell you what, in 10 years, I'll pull out the 440 and place a battery tray under the car. From there, I'll put massive speakers in the grill and under the rear bumper and blast the engine noise! It'll still be more special than any of the plastic fantastic they'll be pumping out by then. Lastly, I put my money where my opinion is. I had the Charger and two HCs at the same time. A few months later both HCs are gone. While they were great, they just didn't make as happy as driving the old car. There is nothing like these things and there probably never will be.


Regards,
John

[Troy]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Have you priced a Supra recently?

Troy

[Ponch ®]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Have you priced a Supra recently?

Troy

[Dino]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Which car would you choose might have meant to own and drive, not to sell for profit. So yeah, that Supra should win.

[Aero426]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Have you priced a Supra recently?

Exactly.    The early 1990's Supra is the next generation's Hemi Charger.     Unmessed with early 90's Supra's are expensive.     It doesn't mean you have to like them.     But those cars have been special since the time production stopped.   

[Mike DC]

  

Numbers cars (mainly the top few percent, not every 440 car built) are collectible.  Their value is probably not in much danger.  It may fall from its peak but it will always have a fair amount of value. 

Everyone understands that an original Superman comic book or Babe Ruth baseball card is valuable.  No matter how boring you might think comics/baseball is, you still wouldn't use something like that to wipe up a paint spill in the garage.  You know other people value it even if you don't.  


Non-numbers cars are worth whatever their tangible value is.  In the ballpark of whatever you would need to buy/build a copy of it.  When more cars hit the market their values will be falling.  

[Birdflu]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Landslide...yes, surprised...no! Most guys 40 & older don't even have a Facebook account. Demographically that's also where most of the disposable income is.  

[60Buick]

The Supra winning and Vin Diesel comment make sense to me. They are still fresh memories for many starting to miss their youth.

Much of the attachment to our cars comes from the tv and memories of the era we grew up in. Those that grew up in the era where the muscle cars were all over the streets have emotional ties to them.  The same can be said about the next generation that watched The Dukes of Hazzard growing up. Muscle cars were attainable on the used cars market. As these cars dried up the next generation grew up driving Honda Civics and mini trucks. Fast forward a little and the Fast and Furious stuff started coming out. Cool and affordable were no longer tired muscle cars. It was rediculous stereo systems and lowered imports. Today it's the latest greatest. I see idiots trade in cars that are a year old just to have "an 18". It's all about "the new"  and " the mods" not the car.

What they see on tv affects this drastically. My 12 year old son is dead set on a 73 El Camino for his first car. He likes the "my name is Earl car". All his other suggestions are newer vehicles because that is what he sees on the road around him and on tv. My cars are "weird looking" to him. How this relates to the Charger is they are not as likely to be used on screen anymore. Hollywood is shifting to product placement to convince you to buy the latest greatest. Muscle cars are no longer the go to hero/villian vehicle.

I have a car collection that is as random as it gets. Each car gets very different reactions from very different groups. Here are a few from different era's. How the Charger compares to these cars I would very interested to hear!

1960 Plymouth Belvedere
It gets looks and a few questions at the pump. That's about it. People ask what year Cadillac it is or I get Christine people that tell me to paint it red. Some people ask what a Plymouth is. The only people that go nuts over the car are in their 80's. They remember them and tell me stories of having one years ago. That is a rare treat. As they die off, the memories dissapear, the interest falls and the prices have dropped off along with them. Interest is falling, cars are few.

1974 AMC Gremlin
The car I thought no body would like or look at is the most popular and when I drive it I get followed for miles, every traffic light someone wants to talk, the car is almost a celebrity. Of course idiots yell "Wayne's World" even though its not a pacer. The story is always the same. "I drove one in college and have not seen one in years". I have had women sit in the front seat and just picture it was the disco era again. It's really unreal the amount of interest this car has on the road. The flip side to this is, all the other Gremlins died off while the people and memories remain. Cars that I spent a few dollars on are getting trendy and going for thousands. You can still find some cheap but not like 10 years ago. Interest is climbing, cars are few.

1983 Mercury Colony Park Station Wagon
I love this car with its glorious amounts of wood grain. It gets more attention than the 60 Belvedere. People always talk about vacations in the 80's or sitting in the "way back". I have had a random guy at Home Depot ask to see the flip up seats. They were much smaller than he remembered. This car believe it or not gets a lot of attention today. Is the "Family Truckster" or grandma's car or some other fond memory. These cars are dirt cheap but very tough to find in good shape. As they continue to dry up the value will go up some. The majority of people with interest in the car never owned one, they were kids sticking Fruit Loops in their nose on the way to Disney. Interest is low, cars are few.

2010 Challenger R/T
This car is pretty but it's still a dog. It gets a lot of attention from people in there teens to 30's. People ask about it and to me "it's just a new car". There are thousands of them but it gets attention and questions.  "I want one, what's the hp, how fast is it," etc. It gets more attention than the Belvedere and that makes me want to cry. Interest is high, cars are plentiful.

1968 Dodge Charger
You guys tell me. Mines a piece of crap right now.
Interest is high ,cars are few.

The Chargers are falling from memory but turning into an icon. For most people the only ones they may ever see are on TV. If they disappear from TV they will start to fade into the past like my Belvedere has done. In 20 years I bet the Gremlin will get very little attention on the road as the people that remember them are no longer out there. I think that is why my Belvedere is worth half of what a 57 Chevy is. The Chevy is so over exsposed that everyone knows what they are and that keeps up the interest with the masses. I am the old car guy in our friends circle so I have had friends kids ask me about owning 57 Chevys and VW beetles when cant change a tire on the 3 yr old SUV they own. It blew their minds when they referred to my wife's 09 Charger as the 1st charger body and I informed them they made them in the 60's!

[Challenger340]

The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation.  Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us.  These kids could care a less about  old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone.  We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore.

If the "Buy American" thing is fading from youth ?
IMO,
I think that's because everything, Engines, Components & Parts seem to be built pretty much anywhere ? and then "Assembled" where-ever they need to be ?

Just because a Chevy is BUILT and SOLD in CHINA..... does that mean it's "American" to the Chinese ? The 6 spd Transmissions come from Opel Germany and the Engines supplied from South Korea

IMO, Cars Made in the USA would seem to be about as an "American" made Purchase as can be had these days to me ?

* Honda East Liberty Auto Plant, East Liberty Ohio, Honda CR-V and Acura RDX
* Honda Manufacturing of Indiana Plant, Greensburg Indiana,  Honda Civic, Honda CR-V (2017-), Honda Insight (2019-)[2]
* Honda Manufacturing of Alabama Plant, Lincoln Alabama, Honda Odyssey, Honda Pilot, Honda Ridgeline, Acura MDX, Honda J engine

* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Mississippi, Inc., (TMMMS) is located in Blue Springs. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Corolla.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Kentucky, Inc., (TMMK) is located in Georgetown. Engine manufacture – 2GR-FE and 2AR-FE. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Camry, Hybrid Camry, Avalon, Avalon Hybrid, and Lexus ES.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Texas, Inc (TMMTX) is located in San Antonio. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Tundra & Tacoma.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indiana, Inc. (TMMI) is located in Princeton, Indiana. Vehicle manufacture and assembly – Sequoia, Sienna, Highlander & Highlander Hybrid.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing Alabama, Inc. (TMMAL), is located in Huntsville. Engine manufacture 1GR-FE, 1UR-FE and 3UR-FE. Engines mostly for TMMTX and some TMMI.
* Toyota Motor Manufacturing West Virginia, Inc. (TMMWV), is located in Buffalo. Engine manufacture 2GR-FE, 2ZR-FE and 1AR-FE.

* Kia Motors Manufacturing Georgia (KMMG), West Point Georgia, 300,000 Cars Yearly

* Hyundai Motors Manufacturing Alabama, Montgomery, Alabama, Hyundai Elantra, Hyundai Sonata, Hyundai Santa Fe

[aifilaw]

Lots of good points in here. I'll bring up another that was touched on. Eventually as technology catches up. Gas stations will be replaced by quick recharge stations, and fuel will get harder to find, plagued by contaminants and probably expensive.
Electric is going to eventually be the way it goes, but the technology breakthrough hasn't happened yet for how to make energy in a small package, or store larger amounts in a small package. But when it does, there will be a periodic shift over 20+ years and gas stations will become like Blockbusters and movie rental stores, kept around for the very few who still refuse to move on (like me)

[60Buick]

Both great points. A lot of the buy American is fading as well because they are not "cool" and still have a reputation as bad quality. My wife and I both have newer Dodge's an 09 and a 10. They both have well over 100k trouble free miles on them. We have had people surprised by this. They refuse to believe that reliability come's from domestic manufacturers, not just Toyota, Honda and Kia.

A friend of mine sells cars, he says the first step after a purchase today to to post it online before you even get out of the dealer! Younger buyers generally know what they want from online research and are sold before the first drive.  The payment is the only real negotiation. American cars are not seen as cool either. He says it's rare for someone under 30 to be interested in domestic unless it's a truck. That market is getting tougher as well.  He said foreign manufacturers are not building better vehicles, they are building more popular vehicles and brand loyalty is no more.

The gas stations dissappearing and being replaced by charging stations is a real threat as more people make the transition to electric. I think that is decades away but charging stations will be popping up. I have seen 2 occasions with people trying to push a Tesla. Quite entertaining. I think they lock down when dead. Both cars left on flatbeds. I'll stick with gasoline.

[charger_fan_4ever]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Have you priced a Supra recently?

Troy

I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.

Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol

[Troy]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Have you priced a Supra recently?

Troy

I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.

Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol

You didn't try hard. At least pick a comparable car (ie not the Mac Daddy vs a clapped out base model). Try this:
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2DE82A6V0037268
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82JXS0025862
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/JT2JA82J2R0019239
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Toyota-Supra-6-Speed-Turbo-Hard-Top-1351-HP-2JZ/223121463807?hash=item33f31359ff:g:NlAAAOSwGCNbhaiH&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra/113220650489?hash=item1a5c7a05f9:g:nXAAAOSwofFbgf6j&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/253851292042?hash=item3b1ab7518a:g:4CQAAOSwt5dbb2Cg&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Toyota-Supra-Twin-Turbo-Hatchback-2-Door/223136897065?hash=item33f3fed829:g:5N8AAOSwsl9blDIY&vxp=mtr
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Toyota-Supra-Turbo/132775146608?hash=item1eea03f470:g:GXQAAOSwMPxbi9Ds&vxp=mtr

Troy

[timmycharger]

The current generation of (18-25) and earlier ages only see cars as a means of transportation.  Take a look of the vehicles on the road today. Toyotas are Kia's are killing us.  These kids could care a less about  old muscle cars and the old saying of "buy American, be American is gone)...Japan's motto is (Buy Japan "be Japanese")...Where has our world gone.  We have failed. PEROID.
JAPAN is killing us and no one seems to cares anymore.

Sorry.  If I take your subject line literally that our "old cars are going to mean nothing" I have to disagree with you.  Maybe Sad for your specific situation but not everybody's and not for mine.   What about the families that pass on vehicles to sons, daughters, grandkids etc that actually want them?  My 3 kids have always been around my Charger since they were born and now as teenagers they see it more than a means of transportation.  They have memories of the car not because it had a 440 six pack and a 4 speed but they will remember working on it in the garage with me when they were little and going to shows and spending time with the family in it and the memories it made for them.

I compare it to the antique clock I have hanging on my wall at home, It was my Grandfather's passed along to my father who had it for 40 years and now given to me.  My kids don't look at it and consider it just a means to tell time and don't want to throw it away because their Iphone can tell time just as well. 

This is just me and my experience, maybe me and my family are rare in thinking this way..

Now if you are talking a 100 years from now...  by then, the stories will be forgotten, the pictures likely gone and yes, the cars will likely mean nothing.   

[Mike DC]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Something just occurred to me about this poll -

A '69 Hemi Daytona.  Not a regular 2nd-gen.

That would reduce the appeal, especially outside Mopar/muscle circles. Chrysler didn't build wing cars to look good.  It's much more of a niche item than a regular 2nd-gen.


To put it another way - Do you want your 2nd-gen to be a Daytona clone?  I'm not asking whether you respect/admire Daytonas on principle. 

[Aero426]

on a localish Fb page someone posted a pic of a hemi daytona and a riced up supra. Question being which car would you choose. About 70/30 went for supra. Guys in late 30s 40's. I was surprised by the landside.

Not even smart enough to realise you could sell off that daytona and buy  30 supras.

Have you priced a Supra recently?

Troy

I was thinking 30k
Actually less than i thought. This is in canuck pesos too.

Disclaimer i know jack about these things lol

But that white car is far from stock.   Just like a Charger,  stock and unmodified is where the money is going to be in the future.   

[DAY CLONA]

To put it another way - Do you want your 2nd-gen to be a Daytona clone?  

Sure would, I wouldn't have it any other way... 

[Mike DC]

Sure would, I wouldn't have it any other way...  nana

I was waiting for that.